Drain to waste deep water culture

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Its only wasteful if they are dumped down the drain. Think of a nft with heavy feeders at one end with progressively lighter feeders along the length of the trough. Gear the plant type and population to utilise all of the "waste" in 24 hours, you likely wont create enough waste to supply much of a trough.
A week old recirculated res thats fed a few (mono crop) plants, having had numerous topups and ph adjustments is really only fit for dumping on a comfrey bed or lawn :)
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Timing is everything. I start with a fresh batch of nutes, then do nutrient topups as needed until halfway thru. Then it's drain and add another batch of fresh nutes, and topup until the end. Through repetitive testing, I've found this is the best balance between reuse and giving the ladies fresh nutes for me and my system.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Its only wasteful if they are dumped down the drain. Think of a nft with heavy feeders at one end with progressively lighter feeders along the length of the trough. Gear the plant type and population to utilise all of the "waste" in 24 hours, you likely wont create enough waste to supply much of a trough.
A week old recirculated res thats fed a few (mono crop) plants, having had numerous topups and ph adjustments is really only fit for dumping on a comfrey bed or lawn :)
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Well now its getting complicated lol.

DirtyMcCurdy said:
This is why drain to waste really isn't that wasteful. Once you realize that you can/should feed far less then what is often recommended the "waste" part isn't bad. Now if someone were to feed what the manufacturer recommends you would use up quite a few nutes. Same with the additives. Most aren't worth jack... if you don't use them theres nothing to waste.
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But wouldnt you be using the same amount of nutes in a regular system once you discovered using less works just as well. Still say keeping it in a res for three to four days is less wasteful than every day. Just not getting where it would be the same but yes Im stoned again lol.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
This idea was never created with waste efficiency in mind, rather work efficiency. More bud + less work = more spare time. You guys doing dwc obviously weren't instantly successful overnight you had to learn from mistakes, I'm just trying to alleviate a couple obvious ones from the beginning by doing it in a way that incorporates my usual style of growing.

Dtw is less maintenance than any other method i know of, dwc is more productive than any other method I know of. if it meant I could leave it alone for a week and come back to no problems, all the while enjoying the fantastic growth rates associated with dwc then it is certainly worth a shot.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
I run drain to waste (once through) on a crop by crop basis, the heaviest feeders get the first crack of the whip, lightest last. I dont use nft, it was just an example. I`ve mixed my own nutes from scratch for years, dry premixed nutes are alot cheaper than bottled but still more expensive than individual chems. It gives you the option to tailor any element (not just Ca, N and Mg) in relation to the rest.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Well now its getting complicated lol.


But wouldnt you be using the same amount of nutes in a regular system once you discovered using less works just as well. Still say keeping it in a res for three to four days is less wasteful than every day. Just not getting where it would be the same but yes Im stoned again lol.
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Never claimed it wasn't less efficient. It still waste more water and nutes than a recirculating system. I just don't care. To me, giving them fresh nutes every time allows more control over the root zone and pH. It also alleviates unbalanced nutrient ratios in a reservoir. I've thought about reusing it maybe 1 or 2 times then dumping but then you're not getting the positives, only the negatives really, of either type of system. You'd lose the efficiency of recirculating and the control of drain to waste. Its gotta be either one or the other imo.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
Never claimed it wasn't less efficient. It still waste more water and nutes than a recirculating system. I just don't care. To me, giving them fresh nutes every time allows more control over the root zone and pH. It also alleviates unbalanced nutrient ratios in a reservoir. I've thought about reusing it maybe 1 or 2 times then dumping but then you're not getting the positives, only the negatives really, of either type of system. You'd lose the efficiency of recirculating and the control of drain to waste. Its gotta be either one or the other imo.
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No it doesn't. I top off or drain and refill my RDWC system on a regular schedule that balances the best of both worlds.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Well now its getting complicated lol.


But wouldnt you be using the same amount of nutes in a regular system once you discovered using less works just as well. Still say keeping it in a res for three to four days is less wasteful than every day. Just not getting where it would be the same but yes Im stoned again lol.
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You`d be using the same amount over the time but the last drop is the same as the first. The 3 day recirculated res wil have the run off mixing back in, water level drops and many other variables (nute heating, root debris etc) that will alter the makeup. A stable res is easier to manage than one that is constantly changing :)
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
No it doesn't. I top off or drain and refill my RDWC system on a regular schedule that balances the best of both worlds.
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I look at it the other way.
How much water does it take to fill your res? How much do you add back to it before dumping and refilling? So, from one fill to the next how much water/nutes do you use? You probably use quite a bit of water, so do I in a DTW setup. But mine is balanced and clean every time. When you start adding back, you really have no idea what your nutrient ratios are unless you test it in a lab like commercial greenhouses do. So you using a lot of water as well but you're not getting the consistency in your nutrient solution. I don't see how thats the best of both.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
^^^^^^ I used 3 days as an example but the shortest refill in my setup is 5 days (in the throws of flower) and I very rarely add back, my res stays pretty stable I think lol. There is no way it would use the same as dumping every day, how could it lol. But yes it would be a fresh batch every time, and yes that may be better, the same as DTW coco. I honestly dont see coco as growing bigger plants than a reg system yet they get exact same nutes every time. Dont know but I just think there are lots of things to think about. Draining if automated would mean selonoid. Filling, well how would you do that, time or float I would think? Anyways its just not something I would consider myself and I'm probably on my fourth or fifth type of system. I grow 6 plants for each res that holds 100 liters and drain 5-14 days depending on grow state. One pump does it all and dont even use a timer after the roots are established. If Op does get it up and running it will be interesting if yield is improved over standard flooded root grows. I'll sub that grow.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
^^^^^^ I used 3 days as an example but the shortest refill in my setup is 5 days (in the throws of flower) and I very rarely add back, my res stays pretty stable I think lol. There is no way it would use the same as dumping every day, how could it lol. But yes it would be a fresh batch every time, and yes that may be better, the same as DTW coco. I honestly dont see coco as growing bigger plants than a reg system yet they get exact same nutes every time. Dont know but I just think there are lots of things to think about. Draining if automated would mean selonoid. Filling, well how would you do that, time or float I would think? Anyways its just not something I would consider myself and I'm probably on my fourth or fifth type of system. I grow 6 plants for each res that holds 100 liters and drain 5-14 days depending on grow state. One pump does it all and dont even use a timer after the roots are established. If Op does get it up and running it will be interesting if yield is improved over standard flooded root grows. I'll sub that grow.
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First off, you don't dump a res every day with dtw. You fill a reservoir with nutrient solution and a portion of it is pumped daily to the plants using a single pump on a timer. Once the reservoir is pumped down you make a new batch. Think of it like a fuel tank. Bigger the tank, longer it last and once its gone its gone and you just refill.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
^^^^^^ sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought OP had said to fill the pail and drain it completely each time. Is that not what he was asking about? I do know what dtw traditionaly means and have run it with top feed, but again I was under the impression it was a fill and dump. I think the traditional dtw concept is great btw, was seriously considering it due the high temps we are experiencing. I run low pressure spray nozzles right now and have great success, and bonus, get to keep my nutes going for a while with out ill effect that I know of.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
I look at it the other way.
How much water does it take to fill your res? How much do you add back to it before dumping and refilling? So, from one fill to the next how much water/nutes do you use? You probably use quite a bit of water, so do I in a DTW setup. But mine is balanced and clean every time. When you start adding back, you really have no idea what your nutrient ratios are unless you test it in a lab like commercial greenhouses do. So you using a lot of water as well but you're not getting the consistency in your nutrient solution. I don't see how thats the best of both.
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So it takes 100 gallons of nutrient solution to fill my system. I run until it drops by half then add fifty gallons. I'll dump and refill with another 100 gallon batch of fresh nutes about halfway through the cycle and continue with the topups until it's done at eight weeks.

Throughout this time, I'm taking daily EC, pH and water temperature readings and adjusting- which usually means five or ten gallons of water to keep the EC on point and maybe a quick splash of pH down. The whole process takes five minutes.

For this input, I get six plus from six plants every eight weeks.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Are you adding back daily? I run a fifth of what your running and dont often add back but if I did would it be better to use pure water and adjust res or mix nutes to what Im adding back to original EC?
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
^^^^^^ sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought OP had said to fill the pail and drain it completely each time. Is that not what he was asking about? I do know what dtw traditionaly means and have run it with top feed, but again I was under the impression it was a fill and dump. I think the traditional dtw concept is great btw, was seriously considering it due the high temps we are experiencing. I run low pressure spray nozzles right now and have great success, and bonus, get to keep my nutes going for a while with out ill effect that I know of.
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I was more defending dtw as a method more than justifying the OP's method of dtw.
Yes, traditional fill and dump top feeding out of a watering can or something is technically "draining to waste" but a drain to waste system refers to something a little more, not much more, complicated.
Right now I am experimenting with dtw on a new table I built. 25 gallon reservoir, 6 plants-only needing about 4 gallons a day right now and set up on a cycle timer to run for 1 minute every day. Gives me a good 5 days when/if needed.
 
GrowerGoneWild

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Blue brother said:
Allright guys.
Has anyone ever tried this? I was thinking of a few different methods.
1. A bucket bubbler with a spigot in the bottom and a timer to gravity drain it once a day (say down the toilet). Then a central res set to refill the buckets an hour later.
2. A hempy bucket with a deeper res and an air stone that runs constant. Could top feed daily and let run off go down the toilet also.
3. A bucket with net pot and a constant feed over hydroton and an air stone at the bottom of the bucket. Same size drain and feed tubes both gravity, waste again down the toilet.
What's people think
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Id rather batch up a large volume of solution and use that for a week and then dump a "spent" solution vs. DTW even if I was using a low cost nutrient. I've played with DTW, and never thought much of it. The performance is as good as an oversized recirculating system.

Aside from environmental concerns and nutrient cost, I'm sure DTW has its place. I'd like to enter the RIU solo cup comp with DTW coco. But in the real world I'll do a recirc drip hydro with lots of volume to prevent PH/PPM swings, and its more stable than a small tank.

I'd rather overmix than DTW.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
I was more defending dtw as a method more than justifying the OP's method of dtw.
Yes, traditional fill and dump top feeding out of a watering can or something is technically "draining to waste" but a drain to waste system refers to something a little more, not much more, complicated.
Right now I am experimenting with dtw on a new table I built. 25 gallon reservoir, 6 plants-only needing about 4 gallons a day right now and set up on a cycle timer to run for 1 minute every day. Gives me a good 5 days when/if needed.
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Like I said I've ran drain to waste with a timed water cycle and it worked well but no better than my system that I run now imo. This thread was about fill and draining 5 gallon pails every 24 hours so a bit of a difference lol. I just dont see a big improvement doing that than other setups that are actual DTW.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
^^^^^^ sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought OP had said to fill the pail and drain it completely each time. Is that not what he was asking about? I do know what dtw traditionaly means and have run it with top feed, but again I was under the impression it was a fill and dump. I think the traditional dtw concept is great btw, was seriously considering it due the high temps we are experiencing. I run low pressure spray nozzles right now and have great success, and bonus, get to keep my nutes going for a while with out ill effect that I know of.
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Lol no not dump res daily. I will fill a 300l res and from that feed each bubble bucket 15l a day. 23 hours later the bucket will drain to waste and the spent solution will be replaced with fresh. I feed my 20l rockwool dtw buckets with 15l a day so there will be no difference in wastage. I'm not trying to find out if dtw is worth doing, I know it's worth doing its keeping me medicated lol.
 
Blue brother

Blue brother

Well-Known Member
GrowerGoneWild said:
Id rather batch up a large volume of solution and use that for a week and then dump a "spent" solution vs. DTW even if I was using a low cost nutrient. I've played with DTW, and never thought much of it. The performance is as good as an oversized recirculating system.

Aside from environmental concerns and nutrient cost, I'm sure DTW has its place. I'd like to enter the RIU solo cup comp with DTW coco. But in the real world I'll do a recirc drip hydro with lots of volume to prevent PH/PPM swings, and its more stable than a small tank.

I'd rather overmix than DTW.
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Ggw do you find that you can leave your oversized reservoir alone for a full week and NEVER experience any nastiness assosviated with ph swing or nutrient imbalances.

Another good thing is that even though I have a Central res for all plants (convenience), they will be seperate and cannot transmit diseases to one another, or if say I want to flush , simply fill chosen plants bucket with tap water and recirculate, while still being able to run the system for the rest of the plants.
 
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