Driverless AC COB LED build

1212ham · Jun 16, 2018

ttystikk said:
Not just one but several of the people trying to help you do.

You got lucky by wandering into one of the very best places to learn about LED agriculture literally anywhere.

Yup, most of what I know about LED and growing was learned right here! (Thank God I already knew lectricity.)
I'm not that smart, I just do what the smart guys tell me to do! LOL Hmm, does that make me smart?

As I recall, your system evolved as you gained experience.... What coolant temperature are you running these days?

emepher · Jun 17, 2018

ttystikk said:
Not just one but several of the people trying to help you do.

You got lucky by wandering into one of the very best places to learn about LED agriculture literally anywhere.

Fortunately this thread can be a very useful "what not to do" tutorial for some of us hobby lurkers. I must admit, my eyes lit up when I first saw these "driverless" AC COBs for sale, and I was very curious about them. This isn't the first thread where a handful of the most knowledgeable and experienced contributors here have done very well to explain as plainly as possible why these aren't a great choice for us - and the evidence is clear and convincing, even for those of us without an electrical engineering background. I might be stubborn if I had invested several hundred (?) dollars in these too, but I'm glad I didn't and I know for certain that my hesitation was prudent.

Some people just can't be convinced by reason, I guess. Rejecting reason because of a lack of negative data on the specific components in question, while having no positive data either, seem ludicrous, but I kind of get it. Anyway, thanks Cobby, ttystikk, churchhaze, and whoever I'm missing, you guys are an incredible resource for those who choose to listen to good advice. This forum has really helped me see through BS marketing and learn the ways of efficiency.

ttystikk · Jun 18, 2018

emepher said:
Fortunately this thread can be a very useful "what not to do" tutorial for some of us hobby lurkers. I must admit, my eyes lit up when I first saw these "driverless" AC COBs for sale, and I was very curious about them. This isn't the first thread where a handful of the most knowledgeable and experienced contributors here have done very well to explain as plainly as possible why these aren't a great choice for us - and the evidence is clear and convincing, even for those of us without an electrical engineering background. I might be stubborn if I had invested several hundred (?) dollars in these too, but I'm glad I didn't and I know for certain that my hesitation was prudent.

Some people just can't be convinced by reason, I guess. Rejecting reason because of a lack of negative data on the specific components in question, while having no positive data either, seem ludicrous, but I kind of get it. Anyway, thanks Cobby, ttystikk, churchhaze, and whoever I'm missing, you guys are an incredible resource for those who choose to listen to good advice. This forum has really helped me see through BS marketing and learn the ways of efficiency.

We've all learned a lot here ourselves and we feel strongly about paying it forward. As always, some get it, others don't.

ZxcStaz · Jun 19, 2018

Hi Guys! Sorry I have not updated in a while; it is crunch time. The end is in sight; summer is here and school is out in a few days! I have had to finish up with finals, but my seniors are gone so I had time to work on the project.

I do hear you, I listen, and comprehend what you guys are saying. I never meant to be pedantic, just informative. This is my own little experiment that I thought that I would share with you. I thank you all wholeheartedly for the input, and I utilize the knowledge. Again, I do not recommend that anyone attempts to recreate what I endeavor. I have no intentions around selling anything that I create here, so I will remain an amateur. This project is just to see what might be accomplished and to learn a myriad of things. I might become the stain on the road that delights and puzzles future wayfarers. If I elicit droves of laughter and jeers from the crowd, I say that I have at least provided amusement amidst my folly. Relax, view the data that I generate unbiased, and draw conclusions from what I glean. This is a multifaceted machine, so some aspects may be of value – others not. Time will tell. I do not know the outcome, but rest assured, the project will move forward.

Here is what I have done so far:

Today I soldered replacement chips in case the LED’s fail and I need to replace them. … (And, I used 14 AWG wire, upon suggestion. It worked really good too…) I’m using “Ideal Power Plugs” so that they can be swapped readily. I also hydro-statically tested the water coolant system and installed (21) 50W chips. Here are some pic’s of the progress.

Here I welded the aluminum tubing and soldered the 1” PEX fitting onto the end. I had to flux the crap out of the joint, but in the end it held. The welds were not watertight, so I tried multiple things to make it so. In the end, some two-part epoxy did the trick.

I used 3/4” , 1/8” thick square tubing. I used two pieces to sandwich the water containing tube. I adhered them with thermal epoxy and used “Plumbers tape” – or metal strapping, to secure their position. Clamps held them until cure. I used a belt sander to even the top for the chips, and remove excess adhesive.

After the water test, I began to mount the chips. These were set into thermal grease upon the flat of the aluminum rectangle. They were screwed into place. This added to the structural integrity and did not comprise the water flow pathway. I have to say, the side-by-side pipes seem to work well. I installed 21 50W chips before nightfall, and to forego neighbor complains, I stopped working.

I’m going to make and test the first of two modules. I still have to wire it up. I’ll have more free time in the next few days, so I should be able to post progress. I’m pretty excited- there are multiple aspects that I foresee that I might incorporate.

Regardless of the outcome, this is fun. I hope everyone reading this is intrigued, amused, or inspired. I’ll post what I find, you be the judge. Until next time, PEACE!

- ZXC

wietefras · Jun 20, 2018

I would fear those side by side tubes weren't completely level. Leaving the COBs to heat up unevenly.

CobKits · Jun 20, 2018

throw a nice flat piece of copper under those bad boys.

they also make 2 x 1 x 1/16" extrusions

mehmet Can · Aug 28, 2018

ZxcStaz said:
Hi Guys! Sorry I have not updated in a while; it is crunch time. The end is in sight; summer is here and school is out in a few days! I have had to finish up with finals, but my seniors are gone so I had time to work on the project.

I do hear you, I listen, and comprehend what you guys are saying. I never meant to be pedantic, just informative. This is my own little experiment that I thought that I would share with you. I thank you all wholeheartedly for the input, and I utilize the knowledge. Again, I do not recommend that anyone attempts to recreate what I endeavor. I have no intentions around selling anything that I create here, so I will remain an amateur. This project is just to see what might be accomplished and to learn a myriad of things. I might become the stain on the road that delights and puzzles future wayfarers. If I elicit droves of laughter and jeers from the crowd, I say that I have at least provided amusement amidst my folly. Relax, view the data that I generate unbiased, and draw conclusions from what I glean. This is a multifaceted machine, so some aspects may be of value – others not. Time will tell. I do not know the outcome, but rest assured, the project will move forward.

Here is what I have done so far:

Today I soldered replacement chips in case the LED’s fail and I need to replace them. … (And, I used 14 AWG wire, upon suggestion. It worked really good too…) I’m using “Ideal Power Plugs” so that they can be swapped readily. I also hydro-statically tested the water coolant system and installed (21) 50W chips. Here are some pic’s of the progress.

View attachment 4153386 View attachment 4153390

Here I welded the aluminum tubing and soldered the 1” PEX fitting onto the end. I had to flux the crap out of the joint, but in the end it held. The welds were not watertight, so I tried multiple things to make it so. In the end, some two-part epoxy did the trick.

I used 3/4” , 1/8” thick square tubing. I used two pieces to sandwich the water containing tube. I adhered them with thermal epoxy and used “Plumbers tape” – or metal strapping, to secure their position. Clamps held them until cure. I used a belt sander to even the top for the chips, and remove excess adhesive.
View attachment 4153387 View attachment 4153388 View attachment 4153389
After the water test, I began to mount the chips. These were set into thermal grease upon the flat of the aluminum rectangle. They were screwed into place. This added to the structural integrity and did not comprise the water flow pathway. I have to say, the side-by-side pipes seem to work well. I installed 21 50W chips before nightfall, and to forego neighbor complains, I stopped working.

View attachment 4153391 View attachment 4153392 View attachment 4153393 View attachment 4153394

I’m going to make and test the first of two modules. I still have to wire it up. I’ll have more free time in the next few days, so I should be able to post progress. I’m pretty excited- there are multiple aspects that I foresee that I might incorporate.

Regardless of the outcome, this is fun. I hope everyone reading this is intrigued, amused, or inspired. I’ll post what I find, you be the judge. Until next time, PEACE!

- ZXC

any updates on the lights?
How do they perform?
Does the plants like em?
I just started my first try with theese 20 of them in a 1m2 tent.
i did lot of mistakes and because of time table i had to terminate the project and took down my tent today.
i used small heatsinks and bigger pc fans. it was producing so much heat.
i will start anew in november. should i go water cooling? or dc led systems. a ready one?

ZxcStaz · Aug 28, 2018

Hi mehmet Can,

I have the frame and lights mounted. I still need to wire it. I put the project on hold for the summer because I have been partying up in Maine, and have 6 aero buckets running outside. Nothing beats free light! I'll finish up the system when I harvest. I just got back to work, so I'll post some updates soon. I can't say which system will work best for you, and I don't have experience with this system yet. I'll let you know how it works when I do!

Have a good one!

-ZXC

Magna2012 · Jan 1, 2019

Dr. Drake227 · Jan 5, 2019

All of you realise that these cobs suck right?? I thought so till I wired them to a triac dimmer. Now they kick ass I usually never push them past 50% and the heat becomes only a quarter of what they put out if just wired straight ac... @CobKits amd others hating because us budget guys are looking for ways to make ends meet. Ive had several grows under belt with my watt adjustable build and they held up great and put out buds way better than people I know who have been growing for 20 years. Trust me if I could afford a bunch of the samsung quantum boards I’d go that route but for a simple diy’er go on the alibaba website. I used the 150w version of these in 110v, they have 200w but its only 220v, but anyways I went with those because they are a pain in the ass to solder trust me. So 4 of the 150w in 3200k I got shipped for $60 total and used them on just an aluminun diamond sheet as means to cool them. All 4 could pull 700w on my killawatt straight from ac. I got a triac and maxed out it limited it to 550w and from there I said what the heck. Lets see if I set it at 200w and just so you know I left it plugged into my killawatt 24/7 so I knew every second what it was burning and as voltage from the wall changes sometimes it would dip from 180w at the wall to 220w. The aluminum sheet always stayed just warm to the touch, no hotter than 100 degrees. Overall it was the perfect size for a 2x4 tent and I only used 200w the whole flowering cycle and towards the end I actually started dimming it to 160w. I ran a good strain from ethos so yield will vary from others but in total the tent yielded about 8 zips total, 6 of which good stuff the rest lowers and shake. Also I fucked up several times because im still a noob, I was having humidity issues, it was at 25rh so I thought it would be a good idea to add regular water at the bottom of the tent. It worked until I realized I hadnt had to water them for a week and yet the pots were still full of water. So no nutrients for two weeks and they were water logged that whole time yet still produced well. I’d say the lights were not the weak point and if perfected cpuld have easily got 1.5 gpw

CannaBruh · Jan 5, 2019

Benchtop true watt meters can be found for about $400 out of the UK, I forget the name of the company off the top of my head and they assume you know how to make these measurements.

For true AC LED put them in the rectifier

Dr. Drake227 · Jan 5, 2019

I am by no means a pro and I thank ethos genetics for the great genes. The light did wonders, the plants suffered due to problems I created. Pm me if you have any questions. I have built more lights just like it for friends I’ve learned ways to make it better. They are all soldered seperately from the main wiring so I can easily replace any if they burn out. I havent had to switch them out yet they are way better than I ever thought, but its cool knowing I made it easier later!

Dr. Drake227 · Jan 5, 2019

Oh and forgot to mention im only paying for 200w but when you dim them they use more amps as the volts decrease. I guess it makes them less efficient but at the end of the day im paying for 200w so im not tripping

CobKits · Jan 5, 2019

Dr. Drake227 said:
All of you realise that these cobs suck right?? I thought so till I wired them to a triac dimmer. Now they kick ass I usually never push them past 50% and the heat becomes only a quarter of what they put out if just wired straight ac... @CobKits amd others hating because us budget guys are looking for ways to make ends meet. Ive had several grows under belt with my watt adjustable build and they held up great and put out buds way better than people I know who have been growing for 20 years.

not hating at all.

never said they wouldnt grow buds, the ability of a light source to grow weed of good quality is entirely independent of efficiency, you can grow great quality with 80 lm/W fluorescent as well

Dr. Drake227 · Jan 6, 2019

CobKits said:
not hating at all.

never said they wouldnt grow buds, the ability of a light source to grow weed of good quality is entirely independent of efficiency, you can grow great quality with 80 lm/W fluorescent as well

You kinda did and also idk what 80 lm/w has to do anything with efficiency bud. Pulled 1gpw with really shitty conditions. Same set up but optimal conditions I could perform just as well as a more expensive kit. Just trying to help out the folks on here that dont have a chunk to spend remember I ran just 200w in a 2x4 which peeps are having to run 400-600 hps. The key is low watts and drop the lights low. I measure 15,000 lumens average throughout the canopy if I keep the light around 8 inches and heat is a non issue. If the light is raised to 16 inches lumens hitting the canopy dropped to 7k and I know the norm is about 10k per sqft I believe so 8 inches does the trick. You cant do that with 600w hps unless its aircooled so thats where I tally my efficiency. Im not sure if these put put 60 lm/w or 80 or 1000000 but what I do know is these bad boys put out on average 20,000 lumens per sqft running 200w on 4 chips so 50w each when they are rated at 150w (pulled 172 at the wall) dead center pulled 30k+ and around the sides still hit a minimum of 10k at the 8 inch height from fixture. What I did notice is the perimeters actually gained lumens the lower I went probably because the angle of the lights on the perimeter is stronger around 12 inches from fixture height. A 1000w hps puts out 120-140k lumens at 16 inches I believe I easily hit this mark (8 sqft x 20,000 lmn) if I just lower them to 6-8 inches and only use 200w. The pictures are lmns x100 so 200 is 20,000 fyi. I tested this meter with different leds that I found their rated lumen outputs at a certain distance and it was within 99.5% so I trust the results. If you paid attention in science class you would learn that light rays travel in a straight line, artificial light is emitted from it and the further away we are the less rays are recieved because the distance allows seperation. I laugh when peeps say hps penetrates better... they just create a lot of light and thats why reflectors work so well. Cobs work well because the light pattern is focused more evenly (quantum boards for the win on even spread), take advantage drop the wattage and drop the height you’ll get the same outcome but save some dough. Same concept as 3 600w over a table vs 2 1k... drop em closer better penetration, less watts and less heat. So 2x4 tent 400hps minimum or 200w of cheap cobs literally less than a hps set up and drop em low. Enjoy

whytewidow · Jan 6, 2019

^^^^^^^ some people like wearing Ronald McDonald shoes. If they want too. Let them. Not only does his light suck. His genetics sucks even more. Ethos and ac cobs. Match made in heaven.

Dr. Drake227 · Jan 6, 2019

Yup they both suck, suck so bad that its all crap and making my place all stinky and stuff ); Can I be like you widow and learn how to make it smell like unicorn gum drops with a sprinkle of extra special premium cob dust lol :lol:

Sorry I dont want to hurt your guys’s business but I use these forums to learn. Some day when I go and need to match the right mw driver to a qb I will look up some good info but at the end of the day this thread was about cheap driverless cobs am I right? And instead of hearing all this negative mumbo jumbo, I am someone who experimented and found a way for them to perform well for what they are. Again I would love some qbs and when I can afford them I will snatch them up, but in the mean time im just trying to help someone get an idea, and my honest opinion on these things.
- limit them to be half the rated wattage
- buy larger wattage so less soldering
- its cheap so cheap out, ebay triac and a small sheet of diamond plate aluminum.
- I attached a gfci to it to try and make it safer lol
- use ideal in sure push connectors makes it a fast build
- have fun and enjoy watching your babies no matter how ugly people say they are haha
Let me tell you, out of everyone else I know their bud was sub par. My inzane came out the cleanest smoke, best high, and yield is going to only get better once dialed. They were dying by week 4 because of my dumbass yet still never popped one nanner and not one mold spore and my humidity was crazy going from 20-80!!! I hate these damn tents I switched to a room, but before these inzanes I ran tested clones and they all threw nanners and were larfy in just the humidity alone. This time they were drowning on top of that, I give them a five star rating for that cut it took a beating and still delivered. Talk all the bs you want its right there im not going to bad mouth a company who did me right. Im not repping just them greenpoint is good, crockett, alien, exotic, solfire (waiting to pop seeds of compassion ecto cooler :hump:

)Ive ran all and they all did their job.

churchhaze · Jan 6, 2019

Dr. Drake227 said:
"Im not sure if these put put 60 lm/w or 80 or 1000000 but what I do know is these bad boys put out on average 20,000 lumens per sqft running 200w"

Dr. Drake227 said:
I believe I easily hit this mark (8 sqft x 20,000 lmn) if I just lower them to 6-8 inches and only use 200w.

Math must not be your strong suit.

8*20,000lm = 160000lm
160000lm/200W = 800lm/W

The problem is that 800lm/W is higher than the theoretical maximum of luminous efficacy at 555nm (683lm/W).

Is it worth tearing every little piece of your math apart? Probably, but I'm done here.

Anyone "that dont have a chunk to spend" should not take advice from this guy and should avoid his light at all costs. Go get an HPS lamp and you're good to go.

churchhaze · Jan 6, 2019

You can't measure lumens with a single point sensor. You need an integrating sphere to do it. This is because lumen is a unit of total output. Changing your lamp height doesn't cause there to be more or less light, it just distributes it differently.

whytewidow · Jan 6, 2019

churchhaze said:
You can't measure lumens with a single point sensor. You need an integrating sphere to do it. This is because lumen is a unit of total output. Changing your lamp height doesn't cause there to be more or less light, it just distributes it differently.

You can lead a horse to water. But you cant make it drink. Ya know.

Driverless AC COB LED build

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