Dry Ice Hash

chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Im not that fussy. My method is quick, cheap and clean. And it gets me something that real im happy with. I grew up smoking the Gold Seal black hash from afghanistan. That was far from pure but i loved it. The smell of it still makes my mouth water.

Then i got to smoke some morroccan #1 in amsterdam. It was the best hash i have ever smoked in my life...until i started making my own. It s very much like the morrocan style, but much cleaner because of a clean manner of extraction. May not be pure as what others do, but i don think purity is the end all be all. That lacks character, to me...

To each his own i guess.

The key to the dry ice keif is pressing it hard for a few days like the morrocan do... makes the gold sweeter...i imagine it would do the same to tumble sifting or the like.

And there is no potency lost. Potency isnt a measure of how pure the resin is. It is a measure of how strong the resin is. There is a difference. You dont get higher by smoking more of it. At a certain point past your tolerance you only get so high. The difference in how high you get is a difference between strains.

As for using my precious buds in the dry ice... could never do it. I agree there is much better ways to extract from flowers. Dry ice for trim only...
Click to expand...

look-
I get one gram of dry sift keif from a Chemdog 91 with NO plant leaf material, it tests at X % thc

you get a gram of dry ice kief from the same plant ...and it tests lower X% thc =yours has X % leaves, containing no active ingredients like thc. It's potency by weight is reduced for the weight of the non active ingredients.

dry ice only chills trichome stalks so they break off easily. Unfortunately it smashes plant material along the way, grinds it small enough to fit through your screens eventually, as you state.

Any strain I grow, any kief I make, any oil I make, always gets you higher if you smoke more. If it didnt I'd be growing carrots instead. you may have other issues at hand
Your product is most assuredly contains less thcLESS POTENT by weight.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
What if you put the dry ice kief in water so the trichs would sink and leaf matter float? At least I read that somewhere, never actually tried it. Maybe wet leaf powder sinks, idk. Maybe you could "pan" it like gold, trichs being heavier should stay in the pan while leaf powder washes away. Weird nobody tried panning for trichs before actually. Seems like an obvious thing to do. Means there's some drying time involved but at least any mold spores should get washed out so it's a cleaner product. It would have to be purified water of course, not crappy tap water.
 
WarMachine

WarMachine

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
What if you put the dry ice kief in water so the trichs would sink and leaf matter float? At least I read that somewhere, never actually tried it. Maybe wet leaf powder sinks, idk. Maybe you could "pan" it like gold, trichs being heavier should stay in the pan while leaf powder washes away. Weird nobody tried panning for trichs before actually. Seems like an obvious thing to do. Means there's some drying time involved but at least any mold spores should get washed out so it's a cleaner product. It would have to be purified water of course, not crappy tap water.
Click to expand...
I know that method works with dry sift but not too much with dry ice sift.
 
ondoogyob

ondoogyob

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
What if you put the dry ice kief in water so the trichs would sink and leaf matter float? At least I read that somewhere, never actually tried it. Maybe wet leaf powder sinks, idk. Maybe you could "pan" it like gold, trichs being heavier should stay in the pan while leaf powder washes away. Weird nobody tried panning for trichs before actually. Seems like an obvious thing to do. Means there's some drying time involved but at least any mold spores should get washed out so it's a cleaner product. It would have to be purified water of course, not crappy tap water.
Click to expand...
I like your panning for gold metaphor. 8-)

I've tried using water to separate out some of the cellulose, but only on a small scale (i.e. in a 600 ml beaker). It works, to a point. The worst of the cellulose definitely floated to the top. That was then decanted away from the sediment. But, at the end of the day, it doesn't turn shit to sugar.
 
ondoogyob

ondoogyob

Well-Known Member
BTW, one of the most telling things you can do to gauge the purity of dry ice kief is simply look at it under a 40-60x microscope. By comparison to other techniques, the amount of 'noise' in the dry ice product is incredible. Of course, there are probably experienced folks who can lessen that contamination, by shaking for a shorter period or manipulating their screens in a certain way. But, the bottom line is...yield and purity have an inverse relationship.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
What if you put the dry ice kief in water so the trichs would sink and leaf matter float? At least I read that somewhere, never actually tried it. Maybe wet leaf powder sinks, idk. Maybe you could "pan" it like gold, trichs being heavier should stay in the pan while leaf powder washes away. Weird nobody tried panning for trichs before actually. Seems like an obvious thing to do. Means there's some drying time involved but at least any mold spores should get washed out so it's a cleaner product. It would have to be purified water of course, not crappy tap water.
Click to expand...
I have done this to clean up my dry ice keif when i have shook it too much and got too much contaminent. It works but is a lot of trouble...so i just shake more carefully.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
look-
I get one gram of dry sift keif from a Chemdog 91 with NO plant leaf material, it tests at X % thc

you get a gram of dry ice kief from the same plant ...and it tests lower X% thc =yours has X % leaves, containing no active ingredients like thc. It's potency by weight is reduced for the weight of the non active ingredients.

dry ice only chills trichome stalks so they break off easily. Unfortunately it smashes plant material along the way, grinds it small enough to fit through your screens eventually, as you state.

Any strain I grow, any kief I make, any oil I make, always gets you higher if you smoke more. If it didnt I'd be growing carrots instead. you may have other issues at hand
Your product is most assuredly contains less thcLESS POTENT by weight.
Click to expand...
Bullshit. You need some chemistry learnin...

By your logic fentanol would just have to be cut more to be less lethal. But the fact is.. where X is the lethal amount it does not matter if X amount of fentanol is mixed with a gram of whatever or 10 grams of whatever X will still kill you.

Same with weed. There is a saturation point. The THC, no matter what it is mixed with, is only as potenent as the strain allows. So if you need 1 gram of pure thc to get as high as you can get off that strain then it doesnt matter how much plant material is mixed with it. You still need a grams worth of pure thc to reach that point.

The difference is how long it takes to process. If you suck back a gram of your purer kief all in one go it hits you harder because it is more concentrated. But that doesnt mean you get higher than smoking that same grams worth of thc in 5 spliffs. It may seem like it because it hits you harder and faster. Thats all.

The potency in 1 gram of pure thc is the same as the potency in 1/10 of a gram of pure thc of the same strain. How you deliver it to your body is irrellevant. And the effect varies from person to person.

I grew a strain that did absolutely nothing for me. Zero. No matter how much i smoked. But a couple friends said it was the most potent i had ever grown, but it wasnt.
 
ondoogyob

ondoogyob

Well-Known Member
@Gquebed and @chemphlegm, what you both appear to be saying is really not that far apart. What might be helpful is to clarify the difference between the terms concentration and potency. In plant chemistry, concentration is the quantifiable amount of one substance in relation to another measurable substance. It can be expressed as a ratio of one constituent to another (e.g. 24:1) or as a percentage of the total sample measured (e.g. 24%). Potency, on the other hand, refers to the amount of a substance that it takes to produce a specific biological outcome.

BTW (@Gquebed), with respect to your comment about Fentanol and the 'sat. point of THC', these statements are only true, if we accept that whatever substance "X" is mixed with is biologically inert. If it is not inert, then all bets are off. This is where the idea of an entourage effect comes into play. Concentration of X can remain the same, even though its potency can be modified (think the attenuation of THC receptor binding by CBD).

<<The potency in 1 gram of pure thc is the same as the potency in 1/10 of a gram of pure thc of the same strain.>> I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. I'm assuming I'm missing something. On the surface, this statement seems to nullify the idea that concentration effects potency...which it most definitely can, up to a point. Bell-shaped dosage response curves and bi-phasal physiological responses support the idea that dose-response in humans tends to be a reversible continuum. For example, if you give a moderate dose of a drug, you get a primary effect (e.g. blood pressure being raised). Conversely, if you give a large dose of the same substance, you can produce the opposite effect (e.g. blood pressure lowers).

<<How you deliver it to your body is irrellevant. [sic]>> Again, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you suggesting there is no difference in an individual's response to a specified dose THC, regardless of whether it is delivered via inhalation or sublingual, buccal, oral, rectal, or transdermal absorption?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
I found a video on washing keif. It's a crude method, didn't get the keif chunks broken up enough by simple shaking. That's where the milkshake mixer comes in. Anyway, however you do it, at the end of the video it looked beige. I would keep the container in the fridge while settling. I also wouldn't pour the water off the way she did, which made a mess with the stuff that floated on top possibly getting mixed in with the settled trichs.

 
Last edited:
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
ondoogyob said:
@Gquebed and @chemphlegm, what you both appear to be saying is really not that far apart. What might be helpful is to clarify the difference between the terms concentration and potency. In plant chemistry, concentration is the quantifiable amount of one substance in relation to another measurable substance. It can be expressed as a ratio of one constituent to another (e.g. 24:1) or as a percentage of the total sample measured (e.g. 24%). Potency, on the other hand, refers to the amount of a substance that it takes to produce a specific biological outcome.

BTW (@Gquebed), with respect to your comment about Fentanol and the 'sat. point of THC', these statements are only true, if we accept that whatever substance "X" is mixed with is biologically inert. If it is not inert, then all bets are off. This is where the idea of an entourage effect comes into play. Concentration of X can remain the same, even though its potency can be modified (think the attenuation of THC receptor binding by CBD).

<<The potency in 1 gram of pure thc is the same as the potency in 1/10 of a gram of pure thc of the same strain.>> I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. I'm assuming I'm missing something. On the surface, this statement seems to nullify the idea that concentration effects potency...which it most definitely can, up to a point. Bell-shaped dosage response curves and bi-phasal physiological responses support the idea that dose-response in humans tends to be a reversible continuum. For example, if you give a moderate dose of a drug, you get a primary effect (e.g. blood pressure being raised). Conversely, if you give a large dose of the same substance, you can produce the opposite effect (e.g. blood pressure lowers).

<<How you deliver it to your body is irrellevant. [sic]>> Again, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you suggesting there is no difference in an individual's response to a specified dose THC, regardless of whether it is delivered via inhalation or sublingual, buccal, oral, rectal, or transdermal absorption?
Click to expand...
1 gram of thc and 1/10 gram of thc is the same potency in the sense that 26 ounces of whiskey is 40% alcohol as is 1 ounce of whisky.

Bad analogy, i know, but i works since the thc is mixed in the resin with whatever particulate matter.

As for delivery...bad choice of words. Whether you smoke a gram slowly or quickly is not rellevant to the potency of the strain. The effect may be different... but the potency isnt.
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
1 gram of my keif tests at X% THC
if you tested the same weed with your system
a one gram sample would contain less active ingredients, because some of that one gram is poopy dry iced mashed up leaf material, rendering it a less potent one gram sample aye
 
ondoogyob

ondoogyob

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
1 gram of thc and 1/10 gram of thc is the same potency in the sense that 26 ounces of whiskey is 40% alcohol as is 1 ounce of whisky.

Bad analogy, i know, but i works since the thc is mixed in the resin with whatever particulate matter.

As for delivery...bad choice of words. Whether you smoke a gram slowly or quickly is not rellevant to the potency of the strain. The effect may be different... but the potency isnt.
Click to expand...
Ok, got it. Then potency is definitely the wrong word for what you're describing. The effect (i.e. the potency) of 1 liter of whiskey (40% alcohol) is vastly different from consuming 10 ml of whiskey (40% alcohol). 8-) So, we're not talking potency (i.e. outcome). What you can say is that they contain the same percentage (i.e. concentration) of alcohol...whether we're talking 1 ml or a swimming pool full.

Perhaps a better whiskey drinking analogy is...drinking your booze neat or with a mixer. When you ingest 100 ml of whiskey (containing 40% alcohol), you're consuming 40 ml of pure alcohol. Likewise, if you add 200 ml of soda water to your 100 ml of whiskey, your drink still contains 40 ml of pure alcohol, even though your mixed drink now has a total alcohol concentration of 13.3%...because it has been diluted. In this metaphor, dry ice kief is the mixed drink, because it is also diluted (with pulverised plant material).

Again, I think terminology is important here. Potency is effect of a substance. Concentration is the amount of that substance.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
ondoogyob said:
Ok, got it. Then potency is definitely the wrong word for what you're describing. The effect (i.e. the potency) of 1 liter of whiskey (40% alcohol) is vastly different from consuming 10 ml of whiskey (40% alcohol). 8-) So, we're not talking potency (i.e. outcome). What you can say is that they contain the same percentage (i.e. concentration) of alcohol...whether we're talking 1 ml or a swimming pool full.

Perhaps a better whiskey drinking analogy is...drinking your booze neat or with a mixer. When you ingest 100 ml of whiskey (containing 40% alcohol), you're consuming 40 ml of pure alcohol. Likewise, if you add 200 ml of soda water to your 100 ml of whiskey, your drink still contains 40 ml of pure alcohol, even though your mixed drink now has a total alcohol concentration of 13.3%...because it has been diluted. In this metaphor, dry ice kief is the mixed drink, because it is also diluted (with pulverised plant material).

Again, I think terminology is important here. Potency is effect of a substance. Concentration is the amount of that substance.
Click to expand...
I agree. Terminology is key.
I know potency to be the strength/power of a substance because effect is subjective not only the person but also the conditions of that person (fatigue, nutrition etc).

So when a strain in measured at 22% lets say... how that effects person A on one day is not the same as another day and that is dependant on how much rest or food the person has had. Weather conditions also play a role as that affects a person body chemistry. Now whether the difference is large enough to notice is another matter. I know friday after a long week of work a couple pulls on my Pax will crush me. Whereas on a Sunday afternoon i have to suck back half the bowl for the same effect. The potency of the resin has not hanged. I have... and therefore the effect has. Or at least the perception of the effect has.
 
Last edited:
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
MnH said:
Did you even read my reply on the first page? lol
Click to expand...
No i didnt. Lol
I did look at the pics though. Didnt pay attention to who posted because the resin was absolutely stunning. Bravo. Seriously. Well done. I wish i had the patience and the skill. I really do.

But dont tell me any of that is faster than dry ice. I can shake out a 1/4 lb in about 30 mins.

Ive done dry sift and bubble. I dont disagree that they bring a purer result. But for speed, simplicity, yield... nothing beats dry ice (trim only).
 
M

MnH

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
No i didnt. Lol
I did look at the pics though. Didnt pay attention to who posted because the resin was absolutely stunning. Bravo. Seriously. Well done. I wish i had the patience and the skill. I really do.

But dont tell me any of that is faster than dry ice. I can shake out a 1/4 lb in about 30 mins.

Ive done dry sift and bubble. I dont disagree that they bring a purer result. But for speed, simplicity, yield... nothing beats dry ice (trim only).
Click to expand...
All those pictures took 10 seconds.

Lol. It's uncleaned and uses my method that everyone else in the industry now currently sells themselves...

So yeah... i'm telling you it's better and faster than dry ice if you want quality.. Figured it out in 2003..
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
The dry ice breaks the plant material up too much though, which is why you get so much. That's why you need to shake it just in cold air instead, after freezing it in a freezer. My fridge freezer is -7 F at its warmest setting. Anything under 0 is cold enough. This is actually how the product the "hash shaker" or "pollen shaker" works. You put it in the freezer and then shake it. It has a screen in it. So let's say I make one out of a plastic Thermos type container, put it in the freezer with the top off until frozen, put the top on and shake, preferably with a machine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top