DWC PPM Confusion Again .. ( Nirvana NL )

Major Blazer said:

I’ve used distilled water quite a bit issue free. What makes you say that? I always wondered the distinction especially since my distilled water says on the label that it was purified through reverse osmosis

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they purify first before distillation so there is less "work" for the distiller to do.

rkymtnman said:

they purify first before distillation so there is less "work" for the distiller to do.

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Good stuff! But effectively, if both test pure within 0-3 ppm, I don’t see why there should be a distinction. Pure water is pure water, especially if the distillation occurs after the ro treatment. I mean it’s conjecture but I’ve used distilled water more times than I can remember and never ever had a problem with it.

Major Blazer said:

Good stuff! But effectively, if both test pure within 0-3 ppm, I don’t see why there should be a distinction. Pure water is pure water, especially if the distillation occurs after the ro treatment. I mean it’s conjecture but I’ve used distilled water more times than I can remember and never ever had a problem with it.

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oh yeah, i agree with you. ro and distillled are the same end product with just a different path to get there.

If you were to drink nothing but distilled water, you would likely die. Are both at, or near, 0 PPM's? Yes. Anyone know what the PH is of both? RO - 7.0. Distilled - Down in the 4's. The issue here is not the PPM's. Its that fact that distilled water contains no ions. Its a large subject and I'm certainly no expert but I would be careful if you're using distilled. Are you mixing in some tap water with it to introduce ions?

doesn't the nutes add ions to the distilled?
i was a liberal arts major so science is not my forte either.
i've used distilled before too with no difference compared to RO.

Hot Diggity Sog said:

If you were to drink nothing but distilled water, you would likely die. Are both at, or near, 0 PPM's? Yes. Anyone know what the PH is of both? RO - 7.0. Distilled - Down in the 4's. The issue here is not the PPM's. Its that fact that distilled water contains no ions. Its a large subject and I'm certainly no expert but I would be careful if you're using distilled. Are you mixing in some tap water with it to introduce ions?

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Interesting, I’ve never had distilled water at a 4pH, usually it is around 7. Gave me something to think about anyway, I live to research random shit.

Major Blazer said:

Interesting, I’ve never had distilled water at a 4pH, usually it is around 7. Gave me something to think about anyway, I live to research random shit.

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since it's a holiday weekend, we'll expect your report at 9am Tuesday. LOL.

Just because I am curious, I'll probably do a side by side test this weekend. I can make 0 PPM RO and my grocery store carries distilled. I have a Blue Lab Guardian and will do the following tests:

EC and PH of both. Effect of adding 1 drop of PH Down to 1 gallon of each. Effect of adding 2 ml's of a simple Grow fertilizer to one gallon of each. Might be interesting...with no ions in the distilled water, its doubtful the blue lab can even measure electrical conductivity since, with no ions, there is none. Who knows...maybe I'm totally wrong. We'll see

WildWoodFlower said:

Sorry mind is a million places with this I forgot to mention PH , I have been keeping it around 5.8 - 6.0 using a hand held cheap ph monitor and I also double check it with the ph kit that has the drops and changes colors , it has drifted up and down , one day was as low as 4.8 and highest i have seen it was around 6.7 but I check ph mostly on a day to day basis at the least once every 2 days. there was a small issue with fungus gnats month or so back but that seemed to clear up I have only seen maybe 3 stuck to the yellow card.

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You still didnt say how you are measuring PPM or if you checked its calibration?

Cheap PH pens and cheap PPM meters can be all over the place on readings. You need to calibrate them very often, or you have no clue whats really gong on. Drops are not precise enough for hydro in my opinion.

Hot Diggity Sog said:

Just because I am curious, I'll probably do a side by side test this weekend. I can make 0 PPM RO and my grocery store carries distilled. I have a Blue Lab Guardian and will do the following tests:

EC and PH of both. Effect of adding 1 drop of PH Down to 1 gallon of each. Effect of adding 2 ml's of a simple Grow fertilizer to one gallon of each. Might be interesting...with no ions in the distilled water, its doubtful the blue lab can even measure electrical conductivity since, with no ions, there is none. Who knows...maybe I'm totally wrong. We'll see

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PH does not change in a linear fashion when you add PH up or down. For example. with my tap water, and a 15 gallon rez, it can take as much as 60-80 ml of acid to go from 6.7 down to 6.2 PH, but adding just 5 more ml will drop it down from 6.2 to 4 something.

However, that can vary a lot depending on the water, and nutes you are using. Thats another reason why a meter that reads accurately is so important.

I believe Dynagro is meant to be used with regular tap water. A lot of commercial farmers use it and don't have time to mess with ro water. How much Dynagrow are you putting in your 4 gallons of water? I run around a tablespoon to 4 -4 1/2 gallons to get around 5-600 ppm or a small tablespoon (3/4 full) per pail for very young ones.

Larry3215 said:

You still didnt say how you are measuring PPM or if you checked its calibration?

Cheap PH pens and cheap PPM meters can be all over the place on readings. You need to calibrate them very often, or you have no clue whats really gong on. Drops are not precise enough for hydro in my opinion.

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Sorry... yes I have a cheap TDS meter as well I calibrate it every 3 -5 feedings.

70's natureboy said:

I believe Dynagro is meant to be used with regular tap water. A lot of commercial farmers use it and don't have time to mess with ro water. How much Dynagrow are you putting in your 4 gallons of water? I run around a tablespoon to 4 -4 1/2 gallons to get around 5-600 ppm or a small tablespoon (3/4 full) per pail for very young ones.

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I currently am using approx 5 ml of the grow per approx 4 gallon of water. When I used more it appeared as if I was starting to see N tox issues so I dropped it down .. I think I was using around 7 -8 ml of grow when I was getting near 200ppm and seeing the leaves starting to turn very dark and start the claw and curling.

Larry3215 said:

PH does not change in a linear fashion when you add PH up or down. For example. with my tap water, and a 15 gallon rez, it can take as much as 60-80 ml of acid to go from 6.7 down to 6.2 PH, but adding just 5 more ml will drop it down from 6.2 to 4 something.

However, that can vary a lot depending on the water, and nutes you are using. Thats another reason why a meter that reads accurately is so important.

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I have noticed this as well ..there is times I could use almost a ml or so to get ph from 6.8 to 6.2 or 6.0 , but once at say 6.0 if I added even drops of down it would jump way down lower than I expected to around 5.4 .. Crazy how it took so much to get to 6.0 but once there even a drop after that and it drops several points at a time.

LordRalh3 said:

Doesnt sound right to me. Are you measuring your res or the nutes your putting in. Kinda sounds like the plants are drinking water and your adding water and nutes.

You should look up the super simple one part feeds and start simplifying everything

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I fill the bucket with the 3.5 - 4 gallon of water , than add my nutes to that before adjusting PH. I only top of the rest of the week with just Distilled water only and do see that the plant is eating ..I may start at say 150ppm on Monday by Wed that ppm will be down to around 70- 80 ppm .. and by weeks end , around 40 ppm. As I see the ppms going down the water is being used up a bit as well so I just top off with the water until next res change. That was why I starting using Dyna-Gro because of the simplicity of it being the 1-part and all , any suggestions on what would be simpler to use other than Dyna-Gro ? I was under the impression that it was the only 1 part formula available ?

Hot Diggity Sog said:

If you were to drink nothing but distilled water, you would likely die. Are both at, or near, 0 PPM's? Yes. Anyone know what the PH is of both? RO - 7.0. Distilled - Down in the 4's. The issue here is not the PPM's. Its that fact that distilled water contains no ions. Its a large subject and I'm certainly no expert but I would be careful if you're using distilled. Are you mixing in some tap water with it to introduce ions?

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Funny you mentioned that , in fact just last night i prepped about a gallon of Tap water with API water conditioner. The stuff used with fish aquariums since my municipal water contains chloramines and comes out of faucet at around 300ppm ( reason I have always used Distilled ) . I thought perhaps the buffers in the tap water may help to stabilize the PH better. I was worried at first about trying this with my treated conditioned water because I see that the conditioner also removes heavy metals , so I was worried that this shit may strip important minerals from my nute solution. But at this point figured I would give it a shot and added approx 1 gallon of this conditioned water to my res with the distilled, I will see if that makes any changes. Wondering if there would be any harm in trying straight unconditioned tap water but I hear that chloramines are very bad for plants so i decided to treat the tap water before using it in res.

I'm not an expert on RO water but in hearing how everybody else does it, it seems to me they put the cal/mag in first and bring the water up to 100ppm or so. I think you may be light on cal/mag. I thought I was the lightest feeder around here, usually 5-600 ppm . I'm stumped why yours is so sensitive.

70's natureboy said:

I'm not an expert on RO water but in hearing how everybody else does it, it seems to me they put the cal/mag in first and bring the water up to 100ppm or so. I think you may be light on cal/mag. I thought I was the lightest feeder around here, usually 5-600 ppm . I'm stumped why yours is so sensitive.

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He's right doing the Si first though

Maxibloom, FloraNova both work well but dyna should still be alright i guess. The amount your saying you put in is close enough in line with expected ppm i wouldnt worry overly much. Personally i would try the water out of your facet with a full res change and a fresh regiment of nutes .

I have been keeping a pretty close eye on her and res , so far so good .. I have been worried about the tap water I added that was treated with API Water Conditioner which is in basic " Sodium Thiosulfate ". All I have read so far about Sodium Thiosulfate I should have no problems using it to clean up my tap water a bit before using in rez mostly to remove chlorine and chloramines. What leaned me toward the worried side was it says it also removes heavy metals I pretty much failed Chem so have no idea whats all going on there lol , but I have heard of many people using it and having no issues at all with it. From what I have seen so far the little bit of the treated tap water I added is having no ill effects , the newer growth tips are coming in normal and so far light green , I am hoping these few changes and the lighter doseof nutes will allow them to remain healthy ..fingers are crossed. By the way anyone else ever used API Water Conditioner with a grow ? if so any negative or positive results ?