DWC vs Coco

S

sven_lordy

Active Member
Hi all

I've been determined to get the hang of DWC. I've had multiple failed attempts but thankfully I'm now on the right track. What I've realised (and it's been talked about so often in this forum - can't believe I was arrogant enough to think my inexperienced logic was better than the raw experience of others), is that sterile is the only way to go in DWC. I've tried using White Shark and Orca and still ended up with the dreaded root rot. Lessons learnt - Silver Bullet Roots is the easiest way to do sterile without having to dose pool shock or H202 daily.

But... I have a cupboard full of additives and I now realise that they're probably best suited for coco or soil.

I'm sure there are plenty of experienced growers who have tried all sorts of methods. I'm growing purely for personal medicinal use - I'm not trying to make a cash crop. But time still matters, when considering the running costs of lights, humidifiers, heaters etc. And cost per gram is important whether growing for personal use or for profit.

What I'm wondering is: If adding Rhizo bacteria/compost teas, fulvic acid, canna boost and other enhancers, is it possible to get the same explosive growth from coco as it is from DWC? And also, if using a medium that supports the use of all these various additives, can you get a better quality bud using coco+additives than dwc with straight salt nutrients? Assuming that the environmental variables are the same... which produces better bud, and is there any noticeable difference in yield?
 
Frost Spectre

Frost Spectre

Member
sven_lordy said:
Hi all

I've been determined to get the hang of DWC. I've had multiple failed attempts but thankfully I'm now on the right track. What I've realised (and it's been talked about so often in this forum - can't believe I was arrogant enough to think my inexperienced logic was better than the raw experience of others), is that sterile is the only way to go in DWC. I've tried using White Shark and Orca and still ended up with the dreaded root rot. Lessons learnt - Silver Bullet Roots is the easiest way to do sterile without having to dose pool shock or H202 daily.

But... I have a cupboard full of additives and I now realise that they're probably best suited for coco or soil.

I'm sure there are plenty of experienced growers who have tried all sorts of methods. I'm growing purely for personal medicinal use - I'm not trying to make a cash crop. But time still matters, when considering the running costs of lights, humidifiers, heaters etc. And cost per gram is important whether growing for personal use or for profit.

What I'm wondering is: If adding Rhizo bacteria/compost teas, fulvic acid, canna boost and other enhancers, is it possible to get the same explosive growth from coco as it is from DWC? And also, if using a medium that supports the use of all these various additives, can you get a better quality bud using coco+additives than dwc with straight salt nutrients? Assuming that the environmental variables are the same... which produces better bud, and is there any noticeable difference in yield?
Click to expand...
I switched from RDWC to Coco a few years back. I found that my bud quality was better in Coco coir as compared to hydro. You could definitely get away with using those additives in coco.
 
Beehive

Beehive

Well-Known Member
When I first started growing. I was all about hydro. Every method besides ebb and flow.

I even used systems you've never heard of or seen. Pre internet. But things got modern and instead of having to build a system. You can buy them.

Getting older in life. Dealing with hydro. Hoping like hell the power doesn't go out. Root rot. Constantly babysitting PH.

You can get the same growth in coco as hydro. You just have to water coco until you get sick of it. If you're A badass and don't mind the mind numbing mixing of fert solution. If you water coco 5 times a day. To include setting up night time feedings. It'll match hydro. In growth and weight.

If the power does go out. Not a big deal with coco. The plant isn't going to drown from no solution circulation. Its all the benefits of hydro without the drama.
 
Frost Spectre

Frost Spectre

Member
Beehive said:
When I first started growing. I was all about hydro. Every method besides ebb and flow.

I even used systems you've never heard of or seen. Pre internet. But things got modern and instead of having to build a system. You can buy them.

Getting older in life. Dealing with hydro. Hoping like hell the power doesn't go out. Root rot. Constantly babysitting PH.

You can get the same growth in coco as hydro. You just have to water coco until you get sick of it. If you're A badass and don't mind the mind numbing mixing of fert solution. If you water coco 5 times a day. To include setting up night time feedings. It'll match hydro. In growth and weight.

If the power does go out. Not a big deal with coco. The plant isn't going to drown from no solution circulation. Its all the benefits of hydro without the drama.
Click to expand...
Valid point.

You can definitely feed more often to match DWC. I only feed twice daily at most due to being time consuming and me being lazy.
 
Beehive

Beehive

Well-Known Member
Frost Spectre said:
Valid point.

You can definitely feed more often to match DWC. I only feed twice daily at most due to being time consuming and me being lazy.
Click to expand...
I know the feeling. I only water twice. I've been watering twice everyday for 2.5 months.

Roll out bed. Drink coffee. Check my jug for the right temperature and PH.

Pour.

Make more solution.

Pour.

Make more solution for the next morning.

Pour...
 
Frost Spectre

Frost Spectre

Member
Beehive said:
I know the feeling. I only water twice. I've been watering twice everyday for 2.5 months.

Roll out bed. Drink coffee. Check my jug for the right temperature and PH.

Pour.

Make more solution.

Pour.

Make more solution for the next morning.

Pour...
Click to expand...
Hahahah, sounds like we have a little in common. I definitely don't look forward to it.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Agree w/others, how well you do in coco is totally up to your tolerance for mixing nutes if you handfeed-with automation, then coco can really shine. Don't get me wrong, you can get amazing results in coco with 2 feeds per day, which is my personal tolerance level, but I've seen some truly amazing results with automated multifeeds in coco-5, 6 times per day. Those microbiome additives work great in coco-I'm running mineral salts now, with mycorrhizae, trichoderma, and assorted rhizobacteria, along with things that feed them-fish hydrolysate, seaweed, molasses. I find I can use less mineral salts and still get the same growth, but more importantly, I think the microbiome has the biggest effect on the terpenes.
 
Beehive

Beehive

Well-Known Member
Frost Spectre said:
Hahahah, sounds like we have a little in common. I definitely don't look forward to it.
Click to expand...
I enjoy smoking good weed but Man....I hate growing it. It doesn't give me Zen. Or any other happy slappy feelings. I don't talk to them either.

The day after I cut them down. I'm going to sleep late. Because I won't have to make damn water.
 
Frost Spectre

Frost Spectre

Member
Rurumo said:
Agree w/others, how well you do in coco is totally up to your tolerance for mixing nutes if you handfeed-with automation, then coco can really shine. Don't get me wrong, you can get amazing results in coco with 2 feeds per day, which is my personal tolerance level, but I've seen some truly amazing results with automated multifeeds in coco-5, 6 times per day. Those microbiome additives work great in coco-I'm running mineral salts now, with mycorrhizae, trichoderma, and assorted rhizobacteria, along with things that feed them-fish hydrolysate, seaweed, molasses. I find I can use less mineral salts and still get the same growth, but more importantly, I think the microbiome has the biggest effect on the terpenes.
Click to expand...
I've been wanting to switch to an automated feed with coco pyramids to cut down on labour.
 
Frost Spectre

Frost Spectre

Member
Beehive said:
I enjoy smoking good weed but Man....I hate growing it. It doesn't give me Zen. Or any other happy slappy feelings. I don't talk to them either.

The day after I cut them down. I'm going to sleep late. Because I won't have to make damn water.
Click to expand...
In the beginning I loved it . I also grow for my full-time job. It's not that I hate it, it's just that when I'm doing for 10+ hours a day I just want to relax at the end of the day sometimes.
 
Beehive

Beehive

Well-Known Member
Frost Spectre said:
In the beginning I loved it . I also grow for my full-time job. It's not that I hate it, it's just that when I'm doing for 10+ hours a day I just want to relax at the end of the day sometimes.
Click to expand...
I only grow once a year. During winter. I grow enough smoke for two people. 8-11 month supply. Once I get down to 5-6 jars. I start another crop. I never run out of weed.

I've had friends come over and hand me a nug. Being respectful. I take it. I know they paid for it. They even ask if I want to smoke out with them. Which I do, but it's not common.

I'm completely saturated with THC. Whatever they're handing me. I appreciate it but if they only knew.

I've given out a couple of nugs. Sold old inventory (over a year old) for $5 a gram. Just to get rid of it.
 
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S

sven_lordy

Active Member
Thanks for all your responses... it's a lot to think about.

@rkymtnman - I appreciate what you're saying about additives in DWC, but my experience hasn't backed it up. I've kept res at 18-20c perfectly... I have a 25w air pump with a 20l/min ceramic air disc. Only 4 gallons nutes in an 11 gallon res... but despite that, I kept getting rot. On my latest grow, recognising the tell-tale signs of rot very early now, I was able to catch it and rescue it (cut back on foliage, cut off dying roots, switched to sterile and have gorgeous white hairs springing back all over the place)...

but now I've gone sterile, I can't use orca. I can't use rhizotonic (not that I want to - stabilising pH with it is murder). When I switch to flower, I won't be able to use Canna Boost... i mean, I could try going back to bennies when I switch to 12/12 but if I'm fighting root rot again at that stage I'll be inconsolable!

The most I do now for additives is 30ppm of silica and 5ppm fulvic acid. It seems that if I try to do anything more clever than that then growth slows, leaves curl, roots die. On this grow I might try adding Canna Boost in early flower (until first pistils appear) as a foliar feed... but being an enzyme product, I don't think it will do squat in a sterile res (aside from adding oligosaccharides, but there's cheaper ways to do that).

I don't know - there's huge amounts of hype around all sorts of additives and it's difficult sometimes to distinguish 'benefit' from 'hype'. I've seen some YouTube videos where people show a plant in a DWC res sterile, vs a plant in a DWC res with Orca. The difference looked astounding... just can't figure out why these things don't seem to work for me.

Common wisdom has always said that DWC is the best route to explosive growth. I just wondered if, with this whole slew of new growth technologies, whether coco could now give DWC a run for its money in terms of fast, high quality, robust harvests.
 
S

sven_lordy

Active Member
Rurumo said:
Agree w/others, how well you do in coco is totally up to your tolerance for mixing nutes if you handfeed-with automation, then coco can really shine. Don't get me wrong, you can get amazing results in coco with 2 feeds per day, which is my personal tolerance level, but I've seen some truly amazing results with automated multifeeds in coco-5, 6 times per day. Those microbiome additives work great in coco-I'm running mineral salts now, with mycorrhizae, trichoderma, and assorted rhizobacteria, along with things that feed them-fish hydrolysate, seaweed, molasses. I find I can use less mineral salts and still get the same growth, but more importantly, I think the microbiome has the biggest effect on the terpenes.
Click to expand...
˄˄˄˄THIS!

If molasses, kelp, and other additives are just begging for trouble in DWC, I don't see how any mycorrhizal additives can survive for long with nothing to feed on. And with an air supply keeping a rolling boil going, I don't see how bennies will ever get a chance to latch onto anything they can live symbiotically with.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
sven_lordy said:
Thanks for all your responses... it's a lot to think about.

@rkymtnman - I appreciate what you're saying about additives in DWC, but my experience hasn't backed it up. I've kept res at 18-20c perfectly... I have a 25w air pump with a 20l/min ceramic air disc. Only 4 gallons nutes in an 11 gallon res... but despite that, I kept getting rot. On my latest grow, recognising the tell-tale signs of rot very early now, I was able to catch it and rescue it (cut back on foliage, cut off dying roots, switched to sterile and have gorgeous white hairs springing back all over the place)...

but now I've gone sterile, I can't use orca. I can't use rhizotonic (not that I want to - stabilising pH with it is murder). When I switch to flower, I won't be able to use Canna Boost... i mean, I could try going back to bennies when I switch to 12/12 but if I'm fighting root rot again at that stage I'll be inconsolable!

The most I do now for additives is 30ppm of silica and 5ppm fulvic acid. It seems that if I try to do anything more clever than that then growth slows, leaves curl, roots die. On this grow I might try adding Canna Boost in early flower (until first pistils appear) as a foliar feed... but being an enzyme product, I don't think it will do squat in a sterile res (aside from adding oligosaccharides, but there's cheaper ways to do that).

I don't know - there's huge amounts of hype around all sorts of additives and it's difficult sometimes to distinguish 'benefit' from 'hype'. I've seen some YouTube videos where people show a plant in a DWC res sterile, vs a plant in a DWC res with Orca. The difference looked astounding... just can't figure out why these things don't seem to work for me.

Common wisdom has always said that DWC is the best route to explosive growth. I just wondered if, with this whole slew of new growth technologies, whether coco could now give DWC a run for its money in terms of fast, high quality, robust harvests.
Click to expand...
luckily, i've been able to run dwc in both sterile and with bennies. i'm on southern ag now but i used to use pool shock.

since my system has been dialed in for a few yrs now, im able to mess around with nutes and additvies and see what can and can't work in dwc. ( i also run my dwc as drain to waste which is different than most).

i agree with @Rurumo in that there are some additives to hydro which increase terpenens/smells/tastes etc. you just kinda have to try one and see how it works. as long as you are able to recognize when something isn't gonna work and pull the plug on it quickly, i've had no issues trying different products.

also, i've done coco and the only thing i can say to compare the 2 is to look at a root ball in both. my dwc roots are always bigger than coco which i think leads to better growth up top.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
sven_lordy said:
˄˄˄˄THIS!

If molasses, kelp, and other additives are just begging for trouble in DWC, I don't see how any mycorrhizal additives can survive for long with nothing to feed on. And with an air supply keeping a rolling boil going, I don't see how bennies will ever get a chance to latch onto anything they can live symbiotically with.
Click to expand...
for me in dwc:
kelp hell yes
molasses hell no
mycorr never tried
southern ag hell yes
humic yes
fulvic yes
aminos trying that now, my first powder mix of it sucked, gonna try to find liquid aminos
silica yes
sulfur via epsom hell yes
 
mr4tune

mr4tune

Well-Known Member
Source water is something that gets overlooked allot imo... Put all the shit you want in the water but if your water is loaded with bacteria to begin with you need a UV sterilizer inline before your RO otherwise you'll have issues.
 
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