ebay sale on Chinese leds or DIY? LOW BUDGET

HockeyBeard · Oct 28, 2015

Siino Gardens said:
Funniest thing is most people in the thread talking bad about the chinese LED are either speaking from years ago experience or haven't even used an LED to grow weed in their life. I bought a couple chinese panels 600 watts from Vipar and they work superbly. Could there be improvement? Always, a grow room is never 100% perfect in my experience. Does it grow dank weed is the question that really matters and the facts are that it does indeed grow weed.

So you can either take advice from people who are scared to spend 200 bucks on a panel (which has lasted me 2 years) or you can pull your balls in your hand and grab a couple VIPAR LEDS (they work, another member Indica Angel has plenty of proof. I will also post more pictures as I feel but I don't like leaving a trail)

Also, I know the shit storm is about to come through saying "those blue red panels are shit blah blah blah" funny thing is the newer panels incorporate more white light which balances the spectrum pretty good. You could probably do better with cobs or maybe even an hps but whats the fun in using a light that emits 80% unusable to the plant as heat.

The reason people don't like Chinese LED is that they don't disclose a lot of the information about the parts used, some companies flat out misrepresent the data and actual PAR readouts, the warranties are shaky at best, and the drivers are usually straight junk. They are, at best, 40% efficient, most of the time, sometimes even less efficient than HPS (a respectable 35% on a fresh bulb). They tend not to have the same PPFD in monochromatic panels either, although the lenses have come a long way. For as much shit as people talk about KIND (which are just rebranded Apollos), my friend has fantastic results from them, as far as bud quality goes. Quantity is even pretty decent... But he's had multiple modules go down on multiple units. Failures happen... When you're buying from overseas, the chances of getting a replacement in an expedient manner are extremely low.

TL-DR version - It's not that they're Chinese, it's that the companies tend to lie, omit, and skew data

Rahz · Oct 28, 2015

Siino Gardens said:
Funniest thing is most people in the thread talking bad about the chinese LED are either speaking from years ago experience or haven't even used an LED to grow weed in their life. I bought a couple chinese panels 600 watts from Vipar and they work superbly. Could there be improvement? Always, a grow room is never 100% perfect in my experience. Does it grow dank weed is the question that really matters and the facts are that it does indeed grow weed.

So you can either take advice from people who are scared to spend 200 bucks on a panel (which has lasted me 2 years) or you can pull your balls in your hand and grab a couple VIPAR LEDS (they work, another member Indica Angel has plenty of proof. I will also post more pictures as I feel but I don't like leaving a trail)

Also, I know the shit storm is about to come through saying "those blue red panels are shit blah blah blah" funny thing is the newer panels incorporate more white light which balances the spectrum pretty good. You could probably do better with cobs or maybe even an hps but whats the fun in using a light that emits 80% unusable to the plant as heat.

All lights work and can grow dank. I know a guy who grew a bud with a 5 watt diode. It was a really nice looking bud. The question is yield, along with what components are used and how long they will last, and whether they will save energy.

qwerkus · Oct 28, 2015

Hello, there are actually quite a few alternative to either cree or hps. Take a look at japanese chips. High quality, and half the price of cree. Citizen has awesome chips. COB industry is in its beginning - lots of competition, so it's worth looking around. As for chinese chips, you find a lot of epistar there, which is one of the largest manufacturer of screen leds. I been running some 1w arrays from epistar without troubles for months now.True: the docu is sparse, but even cree doesn't provide all the data we would like to see... If I find some time/money, I will do a complete setup on cheap taiwanese chips, and post the results here. Time to end the cree hype!

HockeyBeard · Oct 28, 2015

qwerkus said:
Hello, there are actually quite a few alternative to either cree or hps. Take a look at japanese chips. High quality, and half the price of cree. Citizen has awesome chips. COB industry is in its beginning - lots of competition, so it's worth looking around. As for chinese chips, you find a lot of epistar there, which is one of the largest manufacturer of screen leds. I been running some 1w arrays from epistar without troubles for months now.True: the docu is sparse, but even cree doesn't provide all the data we would like to see... If I find some time/money, I will do a complete setup on cheap taiwanese chips, and post the results here. Time to end the cree hype!

Pull solid efficiency numbers, make sure the PPFD is comparable, make sure the chip is reliable, and people will listen. Until then, the PROVEN leader is CREE. Until you make a case with solid numbers otherwise, there is no need to end the hype of the most reliable product on the market.

But if you can put them in the ballpark with comparable numbers for a noteworthy difference in price, I'm all ears, as I'm sure many others here would be as well.

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

HockeyBeard said:
Well, where to begin... You're in an LED and Other Lighting forum, advocating HPS. He came here to talk LED. Everyone who knows someone who grows, or has been to a grow store, knows that they can use HPS/MH. You coming to this thread to tell him that was akin to telling him that when the sun goes down, it will be dark.

You're not pulling 3lbs a light, I call bullshit. If you hit 2lbs a light, you're not only crushing it, but you're a very experienced grower. Don't sit here and talk like any farmer can just throw a thouie in a room and pull 3lbs. What strain are you running? What nutes are you running? Hydro? Soil? Coco?

You conveniently leave out the cost of the dehumidifier and AC as well in your estimates. I don't disagree that, as a new grower, it might not be a bad idea to use something tested and true. There, we can agree.

The reason why people are bashing the chinese LED is because you don't know the true specs of the panel, a lot of information is misrepresented by those companies, you don't know the part numbers, you don't know what's in the panel. If something breaks, good luck filling that warranty. I'm not a fan of monochromatic panels, they're not very efficient.

Just because you can't grasp the value of such information, and you don't have a background in electronics (I just so happen to), doesn't make you more of an authority than someone who does. I'm not even claiming to be an authority, but guess what, even I can tell you that the less parts to replace, the better. You FIGURE? Do you have any PPFD numbers to back that up? You're just assuming things from a very shaky footing of what you THINK something SHOULD be. The reason people are recommending COB builds is because you get 1) the most reliable driver on the market 2) THE BEST, MOST EFFICIENT LED 3) A full spectrum light that is comparable to your precious and proven HPS (just a little cooler white) 3) Less parts to fail!!!

Did you know that when China, the world's largest LED manufacturer, had the Olympics, most of the LED lightwork was provided by CREE (Phillips) an American company? You know why? Reliability.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2007/10/cree-xlamp-leds-to-make-a-splash-at-beijing-olympics.html

76 plants 2000 watts journal done on this site DrFever search for it dat be me

Afganistan kush over 7 pounds dry

HockeyBeard · Oct 28, 2015

76 plants under 2kW? You have to understand where I'm having a big hang up. What size pots? That's 38 plants a light. Not really computing with me. So, what's your medium? What nutes are you running? This is all pertinent information. The Afghan is a heavy yielder, that's for sure. Not all strains are going to perform like that. It's not genuine to take best case scenario numbers and use them like that's just another day at the office. I have a hard time getting more than 9 plants in 5G pots under a 5x5, let alone 38. I mean, at 1.5oz per plant average, that's not a crazy yield, but with that many plants, it does make it extremely respectable, but I just can't wrap my head around that many plants under two lights. Something doesn't smell right.

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

Who leads the world in electrical products ? here is a hint go look behind your TV see where its made lets hope its a LED Tv lol facts chinese are leap years ahead of Goo Ole Merica facts remain is that who knows where it was made that so called USA made cree chip you bought probably was made in indonesia or tawian shipped to usa and boxed made in usa get over it ..
Seriously 80 percent of harleys are not made in usa yet parts made in japan shipped to usa and assembled in usa does this mean the internals or parts were made in USA
China is in fact not only by price of the product but the product is better

qwerkus · Oct 28, 2015

HockeyBeard said:
Pull solid efficiency numbers, make sure the PPFD is comparable, make sure the chip is reliable, and people will listen. Until then, the PROVEN leader is CREE. Until you make a case with solid numbers otherwise, there is no need to end the hype of the most reliable product on the market. But if you can put them in the ballpark with comparable numbers for a noteworthy difference in price, I'm all ears, as I'm sure many others here would be as well.

I didn't want to start a flame war. No doubt CREE has good chips. But are they really worth it ? To me, it looks a bit like a close circle - the type of circle Intel or microsoft for an instance have built an empire upon, and have laid waste in the land of competition. Hype = more infos available, more recommendation.. and so on = more Hype. Now CREE is number 6 worldwide for LEDs, far behind the japanese, or even Osram or Philips. All I'm saying is: please, encourage people more to try different stuff, before coming up with CREE only solutions.

HockeyBeard · Oct 28, 2015

Allow me to reiterate.It's not the fact that they're made in China that makes them junk. It's that the companies who are selling them tend to be very shady and they're using sub par chips and drivers.

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

HockeyBeard said:
76 plants under 2kW? You have to understand where I'm having a big hang up. What size pots? That's 38 plants a light. Not really computing with me. So, what's your medium? What nutes are you running? This is all pertinent information. The Afghan is a heavy yielder, that's for sure. Not all strains are going to perform like that. It's not genuine to take best case scenario numbers and use them like that's just another day at the office. I have a hard time getting more than 9 plants in 5G pots under a 5x5, let alone 38. Something doesn't smell right.

search for Drfever i did a journal on this site years ago ... from start to finish with a shit load of pics to back it up ....
Here 12 plant 7 3/4 pound 3 k let alone 3/4 pound of hash from trimmings strain pure power plant

i do not need to BS believe it or not i am past the stage of who really cares anymore lol

HockeyBeard · Oct 28, 2015

Yeah, each one of those square footprints looks like it should be a 1K. No doubt you're doing work, and 12 plants under 3kW sounds way more in line with my experiences as well. Come on, if someone told you they jammed 78 plants under a 5x10, what would you say? That's not a lot of space, and that's a shit load of plants. Looks like that's a strain bred for yield, and I'm going to take a guess and say you're using synthetic ferts. I'll never hit those numbers, as I'm organic, but kudos.

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

One just has to be cautious when purchasing what ever from china curious why is iphone made in china not USA lol

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

Actually i start them off organic train train train transplant up and final pots are actually totes 30 gallons plus of soil per plant vegged 5.5 weeks using chem nutes from 2 weeks on producing a good yielding plant now i am not saying i did 76 plants in 5 x 10 but rather perfect climate controled 15 x 17 room with mylar everywhere used umbrella hoods and so on rotated plants and so on as well vegged 5 weeks these were like 3 week from clone 3 " clones that is lol

Darth Vapour · Oct 28, 2015

as As far as "cheap Chinese" I think you'll find that no one in the US uses an all US built Diode and to my knowledge every company out there is sourcing internationally. Most of these companies are Chinese, and they lead the world in the actual tech. US companies are cashing in now because they have had the chance to actually grow with the lights unlike the Chinese and are making adjustments to get them better.

And then there are a whole lot of people using sites like Alibaba finding cheap lights not seen in the US, renaming them/branding them and making all kinds of false claims and selling them as a brand new light.
And one has to be cautious even with US made junk claiming its all cree
There are several colors used in LED's that are not made in the US. It's like a company "claiming" they use Cree diodes, which in some cases they are. Fact is, Cree only makes about 2 of the colors used in say a 7 band array. So the first question to a company using Cree should be, ok so what do you use for the other 6 colors outside of white?
Fact is, If you're being told that a light is using all US diodes and everything else, you are being lied to.

Rahz · Oct 28, 2015

The single diode (3w 5w) lamps that are assembled in China generally use diodes that are less efficient than HPS. This is what we refer to when talking about "Chinese lamps". Find me a China made lamp that has higher efficiency than HPS...

Abiqua · Oct 28, 2015

Cree isn't Microsoft, more like Intel and Bridgelux could be the standard as well just to fan the flame....The Vero's were out before a Cree cob was released and the RS series was out before that, for a couple of years..............at least add that to the memory banks y'all :peace:

pop22 · Oct 29, 2015

I own 4 led growlights, 3 Mars Hydro and 1 Vipar so I know a bit about what I'm talking about. yes they've got me by and have grown some decent weed. THEN I saw a Cree based light side by side with a Vipar. The difference was so huge in light output, I thought they shut off the Vipar.
So yes, if you need a light right now, and don't have the money to buy/build a better light, they are still better than dealing with HPS/MH and all its associated hardware and heat. gpw is not what I'd hoped for but it has been decent.

But if you want to up your game, it seems to me building a light is the way to go. And you don't have to build one big light all at once. If you build one Spydr style, you can build one rail and use it to supplement what you already have, that's my plan. then as money come available, I'll build another, etc.

Siino Gardens said:
Funniest thing is most people in the thread talking bad about the chinese LED are either speaking from years ago experience or haven't even used an LED to grow weed in their life. I bought a couple chinese panels 600 watts from Vipar and they work superbly. Could there be improvement? Always, a grow room is never 100% perfect in my experience. Does it grow dank weed is the question that really matters and the facts are that it does indeed grow weed.

So you can either take advice from people who are scared to spend 200 bucks on a panel (which has lasted me 2 years) or you can pull your balls in your hand and grab a couple VIPAR LEDS (they work, another member Indica Angel has plenty of proof. I will also post more pictures as I feel but I don't like leaving a trail)

Also, I know the shit storm is about to come through saying "those blue red panels are shit blah blah blah" funny thing is the newer panels incorporate more white light which balances the spectrum pretty good. You could probably do better with cobs or maybe even an hps but whats the fun in using a light that emits 80% unusable to the plant as heat.

Siino Gardens · Oct 29, 2015

Rahz said:
All lights work and can grow dank. I know a guy who grew a bud with a 5 watt diode. It was a really nice looking bud. The question is yield, along with what components are used and how long they will last, and whether they will save energy.

My power bill went from 1000 to 4-500. Also I have found the yields can be balanced by adding more plants or by vegging longer and filling up a trellis. I prefer to add more plants, I have a few in 1 gallon pots that are looking amazing and they take up hardly any space.

Here are the reasons I won't go back

- Lower power bill
- No need for AC
- More oil/resin development (in my own experience vs hps)
- Learned my own style of how to make it work

Siino Gardens · Oct 29, 2015

pop22 said:
I own 4 led growlights, 3 Mars Hydro and 1 Vipar so I know a bit about what I'm talking about. yes they've got me by and have grown some decent weed. THEN I saw a Cree based light side by side with a Vipar. The difference was so huge in light output, I thought they shut off the Vipar.
So yes, if you need a light right now, and don't have the money to buy/build a better light, they are still better than dealing with HPS/MH and all its associated hardware and heat. gpw is not what I'd hoped for but it has been decent.

But if you want to up your game, it seems to me building a light is the way to go. And you don't have to build one big light all at once. If you build one Spydr style, you can build one rail and use it to supplement what you already have, that's my plan. then as money come available, I'll build another, etc.

I agree with you! it is a stepping stone not the holy grail. But along the way it will bring you something that you wouldn't have had otherwise. Your very own herbs

.. I spent so much money on LEDs that I am happy I got a little extra light for 200 bucks instead of the 1500 perpanel I was spending.

pop22 · Oct 29, 2015

Go to ebay and tell me what lights there are good...........

I had one seller booted for grossly misrepresenting the specs. 10 more thieves replaced him. They don't get caught usually because the buyers aren't smart enough to check and see what they really got. The seller disappeared but I got a refund and the light for what it was worth, almost nothing. So when you find a Chinese light being sold buy Chinese "merchants" that has honest specs and an actual warranty that's worth something, let me know, maybe i'll buy one................

so yeah, some Chinese built lights are acceptable. and when you find one you can call

Darth Vapour said:
Who leads the world in electrical products ? here is a hint go look behind your TV see where its made lets hope its a LED Tv lol facts chinese are leap years ahead of Goo Ole Merica facts remain is that who knows where it was made that so called USA made cree chip you bought probably was made in indonesia or tawian shipped to usa and boxed made in usa get over it ..
Seriously 80 percent of harleys are not made in usa yet parts made in japan shipped to usa and assembled in usa does this mean the internals or parts were made in USA
China is in fact not only by price of the product but the product is better

ebay sale on Chinese leds or DIY? LOW BUDGET

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