Election deniers, how do you feel about recent Fox testimony?

Problem is, these election denying Fox news watching people, great people btw, would never call them fucking gullible retards because they aren’t, they are fine people, anyways,
They don’t watch anything else. But all they would have to do is turn the channel to any nightly news or anything else to hear that they are being lied to but no. Very fine people they are.

@sunni

Fogdog said:

Kellyanne is doubling down, asking those who support our democracy to think about all the times we've been lied to just to "GET THE PRESIDENT" she continues to double down, saying, Trump derangement syndrome is real and at the end seals her lies with "vaccines and booster shots are not real".

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She's not talking about the Covid vaccine. She's talking about the made-up tRump Derangement Syndrome and how there's no booster or vaccine for that.

I think she suffers from, 'I think I have a brain syndrome', and there sure as hell ain't no vaccine for that! That's a lifelong affliction.

Dorian2 said:

There are still people that the theory doesn't apply to. Everybody has a story.

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When it comes to these people? Everybody has a story and so I should do what?



I should try to understand them while they are trying to end our democracy or supporting those who are? I'll include people working for Fox News in that category. Kill them all and let God sort them. We'd be better off if we ended our war on drugs and turned the emptied prisons into holding cells for these people while the justice system slowly grinds through their cases, I mean, stories.

Fogdog said:

When it comes to these people? Everybody has a story and so I should do what?

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I should try to understand them while they are trying to end our democracy or supporting those who are? I'll include people working for Fox News in that category. Kill them all and let God sort them. We'd be better off if we ended our war on drugs and turned the emptied prisons into holding cells for these people while the justice system slowly grinds through their cases.

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I was talking about the people that followed a certain thought process about their beliefs at the time and may have changed the viewpoint they held or hold. Those orange toque avengers in the picture and their kin can go fuck themselves. I already know what they are. They aren't the folks I'm talking about.

Dorian2 said:

I was talking about the people that followed a certain thought process about their beliefs at the time and may have changed the viewpoint they held or hold. Those orange toque avengers in the picture and their kin can go fuck themselves. I already know what they are. They aren't the folks I'm talking about.

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“Everybody has a story” connotes that everyone’s story is of at least some value. I find this not to be the case.

cannabineer said:

“Everybody has a story” connotes that everyone’s story is of at least some value. I find this not to be the case.

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Does somebody who has held a belief due to disinformation and false pretense set by Fox deserve a forum to speak about their journey and why they came to certain conclusions?

Dorian2 said:

Does somebody who has held a belief due to disinformation and false pretense set by Fox deserve a forum to speak about their journey and why they came to certain conclusions?

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"Deserve"? Not really. I'd be willing to listen to their trip back to reality but to listen to people trotting out misinformation they were handed by a con man or his echo chamber? What possible value would that hold for me?

After my brother told me about how Obama was plotting to overthrow our Democracy in 2016 and referred me to this movie,




That was the last time I let the conversation stray into politics with him or his MAGA wife. No good could possibly come from that.

Fogdog said:

"Deserve"? Not really. I'd be willing to listen to their trip back to reality but to listen to people trotting out misinformation they were handed by a con man or his echo chamber? What possible value would that hold for me?

After my brother told me about how Obama was plotting to overthrow our Democracy in 2016 and referred me to this movie,

2016: Obama's America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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That was the last time I let the conversation stray into politics with him or his MAGA wife. No good could possibly come from that.

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Maybe not everybody has the same thought process as your brother and his MAGA wife. Do you think that the new information that's been coming up for some time has changed some of these types of people's minds? Or are they all hopeless and not to be heard from?

Dorian2 said:

Maybe not everybody has the same thought process as your brother and his MAGA wife. Do you think that the new information that's been coming up for some time has changed some of these types of people's minds? Or are they all hopeless and not to be heard from?

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Talking politics with MAGA would poison whatever common ground we could find.

Dorian2 said:

Does somebody who has held a belief due to disinformation and false pretense set by Fox deserve a forum to speak about their journey and why they came to certain conclusions?

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I would say that’s a whole ‘nother question.

It helps mightily if that person is willing to entertain the idea that he/she has been disinformed. We tend to get the tiresome other sort.

cannabineer said:

I would say that’s a whole ‘nother question.

It helps mightily if that person is willing to entertain the idea that he/she has been disinformed. We tend to get the tiresome other sort.

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Do you believe that nobody here on this site has entertained the idea that they've been misinformed? Maybe people who haven't participated in the Politics section? I believe it also helps mightily if the other side of the viewpoint is willing to listen to a story without a preconceived notion of another person's attributes. People are complex.

It would help if, people who say we should be giving open mouth kisses and listening without judgement to election deniers, it would help if they understood who they are talking about and how different they are from those who do not believe Trump's Big Lie. Election deniers aren't actually skeptical about the election, they are taking Trump's baseless Big Lie as fact without reviewing evidence and trying to understand what happened.

Trump's election deniers are authoritarian followers. There is substantial information available on this large segment of the US population. From this article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/23/trump-america-authoritarianism-420681 , for instance.

So what do authoritarians in the US believe? In surveys I found that American authoritarians, compared with non-authoritarians, are more likely to agree that our country should be governed by a strong leader who doesn’t have to bother with Congress or elections. They are more likely to support limiting the freedom of the press and agree that the media is the enemy of the people rather than a valuable independent institution. They are also more likely to think the president should have the power to limit the voice and vote of opposition parties, while believing that those who disagree with them are a threat to our country—a concerning trend as we head to the polls this year.

American authoritarians fear diversity. They are more likely to agree that increasing racial, religious and ethnic diversity is a clear and present threat to national security. They are more fearful of people of other races, and agree with the statement that “sometimes other groups must be kept in their place.”

To many Americans, steeped in the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and the core set of constitutional freedoms embodied in the Bill of Rights, these findings are undoubtedly bewildering. But I am not the sole researcher to report them. Many others, led in the United States by Stanley Feldman, Marc Hetherington, Jonathan Weiler and Karen Stenner, have written for years about American authoritarianism and its activation in academic books and papers. My own findings, which build on their work, are gathered in the index of American authoritarian attitudes contained in a new book on the history of authoritarian activation in America.

These results explain, in part, how Trump can remain popular with his base despite any number of policies that would have been considered unconstitutional, anti-American and perhaps even criminal in the past by members of both parties. He has sent paramilitary forces from the Department of Homeland Security to quell nonviolent protests, looked the other way when a foreign power interferes in American elections, celebrated the wounding of a journalist by police as “a beautiful sight,” and spent an election year casting doubt on the very basis of our democracy, the electoral system, rather than working to protect it—all without eroding his main base of support.

We are talking about people who compartmentalize their conflicting beliefs so that they can at once, believe the President should have the power to limit the voice and vote of his opposition while holding firmly to their belief that the Constitution should be followed exactly as the original signers of that document intended. The article I linked to was written months before the election was held in 2020. The article ended with this line:

It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life.”

Yes, in 2020, it was high time that we all stopped being tools of totalitarian leaders but about 40% did not and they darn sure came close to "end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life".

Dorian2 said:

Do you believe that nobody here on this site has entertained the idea that they've been misinformed?

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Yet a whole ‘nother question. And a somewhat loaded one.

Maybe people who haven't participated in the Politics section? I believe it also helps mightily if the other side of the viewpoint is willing to listen to a story without a preconceived notion of another person's attributes. People are complex.

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I agree, and I wait for the day when that happens. Do you recall one (1) instance of a poster who arrived with maga-leaning opinions, and was willing to put those into review? I cannot think of one.

cannabineer said:

Yet a whole ‘nother question. And a somewhat loaded one.

I agree, and I wait for the day when that happens. Do you recall one (1) instance of a poster who arrived with maga-leaning opinions, and was willing to put those into review? I cannot think of one.

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No, I haven't. And I don't really expect to see it in these or many online forums. But I do think it's worth keeping the idea open for someone who doesn't lean as hard into it as others. It can also be transferred into real life conversations with friends and family if one is so inclined.

@Fogdog , we have some family and friends that are in the Trump is great crowd here as well. Probably not as politically intense as down South, but it certainly exists. Hope you can patch things with your bro at some point. Life's too short.

Dorian2 said:

No, I haven't. And I don't really expect to see it in these or many online forums. But I do think it's worth keeping the idea open for someone who doesn't lean as hard into it as others. It can also be transferred into real life conversations with friends and family if one is so inclined.

@Fogdog , we have some family and friends that are in the Trump is great crowd here as well. Probably not as politically intense as down South, but it certainly exists. Hope you can patch things with your bro at some point. Life's too short.

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I am always willing to listen to someone who is willing or trying to think about things. I don’t know what you mean by not leaning as hard into it. From my perspective, you’re not defining what you wish to discuss or have discussed very well; I’m left with the sensation of a moving target.

cannabineer said:

I am always willing to listen to someone who is willing or trying to think about things. I don’t know what you mean by not leaning as hard into it. From my perspective, you’re not defining what you wish to discuss or have discussed very well; I’m left with the sensation of a moving target.

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Most magats do not want to discuss the possibility that they are wrong, in any way.
If you lead them to it by the nose, they will shy away like a horse smelling alkali water, make excuses, refuse to believe facts presented to them...
I would indeed be willing to talk with one of them that avoided that behavior...but i've yet to encounter one, here or elsewhere.

cannabineer said:

I am always willing to listen to someone who is willing or trying to think about things. I don’t know what you mean by not leaning as hard into it. From my perspective, you’re not defining what you wish to discuss or have discussed very well; I’m left with the sensation of a moving target.

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My point is to allow people that might have changed their stance the time and space to discuss it without having to feel stupid for doing so. My entire point is in my original post here. And yeah, it's going to be a moving target when my posts are greeted with meaningless meme's and tropes that have nothing to do with what my original thought was about. Happens quite often in this section for no good reason.

But tanks for the convo. Gotta go.

Dorian2 said:

My point is to allow people that might have changed their stance the time and space to discuss it without having to feel stupid for doing so. My entire point is in my original post here. And yeah, it's going to be a moving target when my posts are greeted with meaningless meme's and tropes that have nothing to do with what my original thought was about. Happens quite often in this section for no good reason.

But tanks for the convo. Gotta go.

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I do not think I brought tropes, and I certainly did not bring memes. Am I to be judged by you for the deeds of others?

cannabineer said:

I do not think I brought tropes, and I certainly did not bring memes. Am I to be judged by you for the deeds of others?

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Nope. Apparently I am though. It's all good though. I said what I wanted. Take it for whatever it's worth.