End of first Grown,Beginning of second

We currently have one Amnesia Lemon and one Violator Kush, flowering with Age Old Bloom.

Two Lemons Flowering with free Flora nutes.
All under a 600 watt halide which will serve as a veg light for the second grow and when those are ready, we will switch over to an HPS for good!


Just began our 5th week of flowering today and we're getting a bit anxious!

Here a resome pics of the first set of darlings, tell us what you think and below those will be the second ones we have started, all labeled for your easy viewing pleasure.

Group shot of the 3 A.L.s and the V.K.







the biggest lemon,flowering with organics


The top cola of the Lemon flowering with the Flora nutes


The V.K., flowering with organics


the small Lemon, flowering with Flora nutes



On to the second grow, that is currently one week old today!

We have two Barney's Farm Honey B's, two Arjan's Super Lemon Haze, and one Road Runner Fem Auto Flower.

For the second grow, we've switched over from soil to coco with a 20% mix of hydroton. We switched over for ph stability, which has been excellent so far.

All have been fed with Dutch Master for the first week, but one SLH and one HB are going grow under Age old starting their next fertilizing and the rest will remain under the Dutch....provided of course I don't nute them out of existence first!

From 7am to noon they get natural daylight through the window, with a beautiful 7,000 lumens through the window!
Then the ones that look ready for more intense light, go under the halide and the others go back to 42 watt 6500k CFLs.

The plants were showing signs of P deficiency, so we picked up some organic 0-2-0 P to help things out.
They seem to have responded well so far , however, one seems to have very mild burns on the tips of the first leaves and doesn't not look to be nute burn, but more of a def of Mag? cal? or due to the lack of P, which should have helped.

We are also seeing twisted growth in leaves and aren't sure exactly what its from, possibly those things listed above?

Here are some pics, thanks for any advice or input!

The Road Runner Auto, on Organics


SLH, on Oganics


Honey B, on Organics


SLH, on Dutch Master


Honey B, on Dutch Master

Man, those are beautiful!

Thanks so much Roseman. Was a long road getting them to this point being the first grow and all but we have no complaints with what were seeing. Well, the Kush and smallest lemon I think were stunted while finding the right right nute mix but I smoke whatever they can give to the cause.

Any idea what could be causing the twisted leaves or is this somewhat standard? We had this problem with a few in the first grow but they ended up righting themselves a bit once they hit the veg stage. For whatever reason it happens most during seedling stage which we think may have been a lack of P in the ferts since it's listed as a mere 1%.

they are not that twisted to me, just a little.
All I can think of is HEAT and Humidity. How is the Humidity?

Uhhhhggg! Sorry, I started hitting the Kush earlier than normal today so I have a few less brain cells operating than normal at this time of day. What the hell it's Friday. Here's a few pics of what Im talking about.

Not sure about the humidity at the moment. We have the plants under the sun with the windows up. Temps at 75 and the air is not humid at all. Havent remembered to buy the temp/ humidity meters yet. The plants are indoors in a controlled climate so we havent worried to much about temps and humidy. With winter coming I will be getting those things along with a humidifier since it gets a bit dry here in the winter.

While I have you attention I have one Haze that has burned tips forming on the first leaf set. Doesnt look anything like a nute burn, more like a def. Maybe Mag? I couldnt get the camera to take a better pic but here's a pic that shows a bit of the tip burn.

It don't look like nute burn, but I am dumb as dirt when it comes to growing in dirt.
I just don't know.

Roseman said:

It don't look like nute burn, but I am dumb as dirt when it comes to growing in dirt.
I just don't know.

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I found dirt to be clueless too. We switched to coco for the 2nd grow so our little seedlings are in that. We have had one hell of a time keeping our ph stable in the dirt with our flowering plants but with the coco everything stays right where we want it. We fed the seedlings yesterday at 5.7 and the run off came out 5.7. I love how this shit makes me feel a little smart.


Have hydro buckets ready for the third grow so Im sure I will asking a ton more questions in the future. Just want to get a feel for fertilizing in hydro with the coc first before I launch into DWC. Plans are to start another grow when the seedlings go into flowering and thats when Im going DWC to have a little friendly shit-talking competetion with my lady who is going all organics. with her SLH and Honey B. Cant wait to smoke hers though.

looking at your pics i'd say the RH is a bit low for the youngsters, i've got that before on my seedlings they do fix themselves nothing to worry about. As far as the tip burn what strength nutes are u giving ? i'd recommend 1/4 - 1/5 strength. example if u were to add 10ml per lt start with 2 or 2.5ml per lt. slowely build up there strength over the following few weeks. I would not worry about the tip burn either worry when the leaves are brown and are crumbling. I'd buy a hygrometer if i were u so u can keep a eye on the relative humidity. hope this helps. Looks like u got it happening, nice buds & well done.

Madazz

After searching around and ending up at Dutch Master's site, they talked about ph and the effects of raising/ lowering it. Here's what they had to say for those interested.

WHAT’S THE IDEAL WAY TO CONTROL pH AND IS TIMING IMPORTANT?
Once people realise how important pH is to their crops success, their natural tendency is to over manage the pH of the solution. In our desire to keep the pH at the most optimal value many gardeners adjust their pH when it moves even the smallest amount from the ideal value. However, in doing so many gardeners actually sabotage their own results - in the most unlikely way. When gardeners over control their pH they inadvertently add large amounts of either phosphorus or potassium. This can cause the nutrient solution to become unbalanced and elements to begin to be locked out as the nutrients interact with each other in undesirable ways as the concentrations of particular elements become too high. This is most often seen with the use of too much pH down which can cause Phosphorus induced zinc deficiency. The common symptom of this deficiency is small or underdeveloped flower s - not what we want to experience!
The best way to control pH is to start with a well balanced nutrient like Dutch Master GOLD NUTRIENT that doesn’t shift pH excessively. GOLD NUTRIENT’s unique technology allows it, in most situations, to remain within an ideal pH band. Once you have set your initial pH to either 5.5 ( Hydro or Coco users ) or 6.3 for soil users then there is no need to adjust it until it either falls below 5 or above 6.2. pH will naturally fluctuate from day to day as the plants draw on different ratios of elements. In most cases, with a good nutrient like GOLD NUTRIENT, the pH will stay within this range and will not need to be adjusted often. Generally the pH of a solution tends to rise during the grow cycle ( as the plants take up more nitrogen which causes the pH to rise ) and to fall during flowering when the plant has a preferential draw on Phosphorus.
As the mineral elements in a nutrient solution are quickly used by the plant, it is a good idea to replace your nutrient solution at least once every 2 weeks ( in hydro ) or to flush at least 2 times a week ( in soil ). The other important time to replace your nutrient solution is if it raises or lowers by a full point or more within 24 to 48 hours. This either indicates the plant is under stress, or more commonly the plant is rapidly depleting the nutrient solution of either nitrogen ( when the pH goes up ) or Phosphorus ( when the pH goes down ).

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http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=growers_guide&topic=ph_info

I think this is the problem. We've been using the shit out of ph down which is made of some kind of phosphate acid. Well we've been getting by just fine on the tap water but now we have to bring it down ALOT cause it's a bit above 8 from the tap so I think maybe the seedlings are getting too much from all the ph down were using.

Gonna try meeting half way. When we add nutes our water comes down to 6 so we can live with that and when weve added down to store bought distilled it took only a few drops. Right now when we water we use a alot of down and it just might be the problem. So tap for the ferts and distilled for the waterings should cure that problem if in fact it's the problem. Usually the store bought distilled runs a ppm of about 4 or 5 so it takes very little down to get the ph in range.

Any thoughts?

madazz said:

looking at your pics i'd say the RH is a bit low for the youngsters, i've got that before on my seedlings they do fix themselves nothing to worry about. As far as the tip burn what strength nutes are u giving ? i'd recommend 1/4 - 1/5 strength. example if u were to add 10ml per lt start with 2 or 2.5ml per lt. slowely build up there strength over the following few weeks. I would not worry about the tip burn either worry when the leaves are brown and are crumbling. I'd buy a hygrometer if i were u so u can keep a eye on the relative humidity. hope this helps. Looks like u got it happening, nice buds & well done.

Madazz

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Thanks alot, were trying. Been a bitch to try and figure out but I cant complain. It does get a little easier as time goes by.

Dutch recommended 3/4 strength when using tap so thats what we went with. First week was 7ml so we went with 5ml. I think the problem could be in my post above or part of the problem.

I will definately be getting the meters. The temp Im not too worried about. I check the temp with the my tds meter some times and it's usually 74-76 for room temp but have no clue on the humidity. They should be getting plenty when they are outside of the tent (they dont spend much time under the 600 while they are so young). scratch that, just checked the weather channel and they said the RH is 38%. Definately a bit low today. Gotta get the humidifier soon.

I think they will be ready for watering tomorrow so I will flush em out and give them a weaker dosage of nutes.

very nice i'm subscribed i'm loving the way the lemon grows, i might purchase some seeds for my next grow. you're on the right track with age old bloom keep up the good work

majek said:

very nice i'm subscribed i'm loving the way the lemon grows, i might purchase some seeds for my next grow. you're on the right track with age old bloom keep up the good work

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Thanks again. The lemons werent bad at all considering were newbies but the Kush was a pain. I would imagine they would be a bit taller but the halide probably has limited the stretch so far. Cant wait to switch to the hps on the next flowering.

+ rep to you for all the help.

As a side note, some info I forgot to mention in the initial post about the light and 12/12 schedule...we have a timer to keep everything as consistant as possible to avoid hermies and what not.

Its worked out great so far, except of course, if the power goes out for any reason.

Now then, earlier today we began using OR water with the newest girls due to problems mentioned in the previous post.

we flushed this morning and the plants already seem to show signs of the excess phosphorus fading and hopefully over the next few days will continue to get better!

While we were flushing, we readjusted our pH from 5.7 to 6.1, Dutch Master recommended 5.8 to 6.5.

Attached are pics taken a few moments ago.

those babies look pretty healthy, how can you tell they have a phosphorus def.?

majek said:

those babies look pretty healthy, how can you tell they have a phosphorus def.?

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From what I've read Phosphorus and Potassium both can cause the leaves to turn a bluish color in the margins and they can also show the same signs in a toxicity too. We know they arent deficient since they have recieved full doses according to DM. That confused me at first cause we are showing Calcium and Mag deficiencies despite the full doses and after I read the blurb on DM's site I began to put it together. At least I hope so anyway.

Another thing could be that the plants just need some rest. They have been under 24 hours of light since they popped a week and a half ago. Starting them on an 18/6 schedule tonight so that could help them too.

I'll give them a few days and post more picks. Hopefully by then they will be much improved altho I cant complain since three of the four are still growing pretty rapidly.

Update time:

We weren't happy after the first flushing because things still hadn't really improved, so Monday, we did a complete flushing of all th babies, made sure our ppms were within the 50-70 range and then tried to give them a full compliment of nutrients.

We then placed them back under the CFLs with a heat pad on a low setting to warm the root zone a bit.

Just overnight it appears that growth has exploded and everything is greening up nicely, but the Mag deficiency is more noticeable now than it was. So we're thinking of picking up some Epsom Salts to help with that in stead of using something like dolomite lime or CalMag, because those may overload us on things we don't need.

But we will be using Liquid Karma as a foliar in between waterings because its worked good for us so far.

Below are the pics taken earlier of the girl's lovely green and growing leaves!

Questions, comments, and advice are all appreciated

those are some great looking plants, whatever you're doing, you are doing it right

Thanks man. I love the coco so far. When they were just over a week old they already had feeder roots at the top of the coco, something we haven't even seen yet in almost 6 weeks of flowering with the plants in soil. Root zone doesn't stay soaked either and the ph is so damn easy to maintain. We've had zero fluctuations, the ph comes out the same as you put in.

Gonna take more picks of the flowering plants later in the week. They are finally starting to fatten up a bit.