Entitlement

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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"The only people who would use this argument are those who are themselves demotivated and know that they don't want to work. The only way to see the world through this perspective is if you yourself don't have any real aspirations."
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that's true pada if you're 25.

i for one, had it all..and guess what? i made the choice..the material at the end of the day means absolutely nothing.

but you can't learn this at 25.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you don't want to work, that's fine, you won't make any progress but I won't leave you outside to die either
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You personally wont? How much have you given to charity in terms of time and money this year? How many additional people are you willing to support on 10 bucks an hour??

Oh wait, you mean you wont hesitate to grab money from someone elses pocket to offer entitlements to people. How generous of you...
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Commander Strax said:
Well, you can't have that, but if you're an American citizen you are entitled to:
a heated kidney shaped pool,
a microwave oven--don't watch the food cook,
a Dyna-Gym--I'll personally demonstrate it in the privacy of your own home,
a king-size Titanic unsinkable Molly Brown waterbed with polybendum,
a foolproof plan and an airtight alibi,
real simulated Indian jewelry,
a Gucci shoetree,
a year's supply of antibiotics*,
a personally autographed picture of Randy Mantooth
and Bob Dylan's new unlisted phone number,
a beautifully restored 3rd Reich swizzle stick,
Rosemary's baby,
a dream date in kneepads with Paul Williams,
a new Matador, a new mastodon,
a Maverick, a Mustang, a Montego,
a Merc Montclair, a Mark IV, a meteor,
a Mercedes, an MG, or a Malibu,
a Mort Moriarty, a Maserati, a Mac truck,
a Mazda, a new Monza, or a moped,
a Winnebago--Hell, a herd of Winnebago's we're giving 'em away,
or how about a McCulloch chainsaw,
a Las Vegas wedding,
a Mexican divorce,
a solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot,
or a baby's arm holding an apple?
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*medicaid expanded states only
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I already had two concrete examples.

1. You would call financial (and presumably labor) bailout "socialism."

2. You (apparently) wouldn't call the other socializations of markets "socialism" because, well... they're the "new normal." You benefit from them. Society needs order or it won't survive. You'd sound like the irrelevant fringe by doing so.

I agree with you on the latter. You don't need to convince me with the parade of horribles again.

But, in either case, a majority felt it was in society's best interest to redistribute wealth. In either case, it is "the state." If you don't like it, can't get a majority to agree with you, you can leave.

All we're dealing with is perceived value of the socialization of the market. Costs vs. gains. Shades of grays, not absolutes.

A majority perceive value. Just because you find yourself in the minority doesn't mean it's "socialism" or an "entitlement."
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bravo!

:clap:
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
and if you listen to Bucky, i'm the devil himself, and i drink the blood of unchristened children to preserve my powers.

Be aware, if you disagree with Bucky on any issue, you are automatically a racist, homophobic, bircher, retard, child molester, and fool.

i can disagree on one subject and agree on another with anyone, my opinions are my own, and i dont hide them, nor do i demand anyone else accept them.

bucky however expects your compliance with his every opinion, and when that opinion changes (as often happens) you are expected to change with him.
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Buck and I disagree quite often and most people don't notice.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
lets take a concrete example.

the bailouts of the banks.

i opposed them, because they are, in effect, Fascist Socialism.

if one wishes to engage in a capitalist venture, and that shit fails you FAILED.
when the government comes in, pats you on the head and uses other people's money to keep your venture afloat, The State has imposed their will on the populace for the benefit of their cronies.

if i, as an individual decided that AIG (just as an example) is too important to allow for failure i can willingly buy their stocks, float them a loan, give them a gift of cash, or buy them out in the hopes that the business turns around and ill make a profit. thats freedom.

when The State decides that i must buy their stocks, float them a loan, give them a gift of cash or buy them out, thats Socialism, and specifically, Fascism, the imposition of The State's will upon the people to benefit it's corporate cronies.

Boo000oo0ooosh did it, and Barry Seotoro did it, because BOTH of them (and the system as a whole) are heavily corrupted by Democratic Socialism (courtesy of Benito Mussolini).

if i decide to drop my life savings into a plot of land, and farm it, if the bottom falls out of the barley market, i will NOT get bailed out. ill lose my farm, and go bust.
AIG doesnt have that risk any more, and now can freely gamble with their investors money, secure in the knowledge that the feds will bail them out any time their shit comes up snake eyes.

and for this largesse (with taxpayers money) all The State demands is that AIG do as they are bid by The State. it's a win win situation since the risks are laid off on the tax payers, but the profits are reserved for the company as long as they keep lining the pockets of the politicians who control the purse strings. it costs AIG a little of their profits to secure themselves against loss, and thats an easy decision right there.

the extension of unemployment benefits is a subject fraught with perils. unemployment benefits are long enshrined in the system, and thus are what IS , and as such are defended (as extant) by Conservatives.
expanding them to Two Motherfucking Years is some New Shit, and though unemployment benefits are quite Socialist by nature, a little bit of Socialism is healthy for a capitalist society.
opposing the expansion of unemployment (being New Shit) is naturally resisted by Conservatives, and embraced by lefties. opposing the expansion is chracterized by the left as opposing the existence of unemployment benefits as a concept (which is Horse Shit), but thats how the game is played.

when you push unemployment to Two Motherfucking Years, your getting pretty fucking close to the totally Marxist "Basic Universal Income" bullshit that is the genesis of this fail ass thread.

remember, Democatic Socialism (Fascism) IS Marxism, just the slow creeping type, so identifying that selfsame creeping Socialism as Socialism is hardly "chilling the conversation" it's calling a spade a spade.

it may hurt some Feels, but Feels are not protected under the constitution, and Fascism (and in fact all forms of Marxism) hurts more than Feels when it takes hold.
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Fascism is a form of capitalism, hence the privatization.
 
DonAlejandroVega

DonAlejandroVega

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you don't want to work, that's fine, you won't make any progress but I won't leave you outside to die either
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good.....then don't. take action. PERSONAL action. no SSWAT teams force-feeding me. we don't need a government to force us to be Good Samaritans. I wouldn't let you starve either, but, if after feeding you, and trying to convince you that life is worth living, and offering any help I can, you want to starve yourself rather than produce something to eat.........good luck with that.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
If you don't like it, can't get a majority to agree with you, you can leave.
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Here we go again. You cannot just "leave" the USA. You cannot just denounce your citizenship either, it doesn't work like that. If you don't want to be a US citizen you are going to need a bunch of money and plenty of time.

First off you will need to be able to become a citizen of another country. Most times this means you will need to OWN outright some real estate in this other country. Then you will have to live there for a while and pay the taxes of that country PLUS you will be taxed by the US government as if you were still working in the US. Some countries require that you have a job or produce income to become a citizen. So if you moved to some country where the Income tax rate was around 30%, you will also have to pay the US rate of about 35% on top of it. So you are going to have to survive on 35% of your income until you can actually denounce US citizenship. Then you will have to petition the US government, this process can take months to years depending on how busy the country in which you want to move is. The fees can be exorbitant in the new country, some are $50,000 or more to secure a spot. There are fees on the US side too, all in all about $20,000 in total.

Then once approved you go to an embassy and actually denounce your US citizenship in front of an official and they process the paperwork. They then run background checks to make sure you don't owe any back taxes or have any warrants and such, so this process can take up to 2 years before someone gets cleared. Hopefully this entire time you new host country hasn't changed any of its rules during concerning your status or your VISA time doesn't run out, you get deported and have to start all over again.

Then you can "leave " the USA.

On average its a 4-7 year process that costs on average over $100,000 to accomplish.

The wealthier you are the quicker the wheels can be greased. 18 months and $250,000 on average.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you don't want to work, that's fine, you won't make any progress but I won't leave you outside to die either
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Hey, if you are going to take care of him I want mines too. My neighbors and co-workers would also like to lounge around the pool on your dime. Oh and we are going to need a bigger pool.

While you are up, can you get us some drinks?
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you don't want to work, that's fine, you won't make any progress but I won't leave you outside to die either
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What progress?

Did you have it in your head that life is really about collecting things or something? He with the biggest home, the most cars wins kind of thing? Why do you put so much importance on material possessions and how you appear to others?

Because you are young and inexperienced and still think its important that other people see you as successful and envy you. When the party ends its always a disaster. Go through a mobile home park and see how many have cars in the driveway that cost more than the home.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Capitalism is private ownership with the goal of MAKING PROFITS!!! If the State consumes all those profits, it is definitely not capitalism.
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www.ub.edu/graap/EHR.pdf
Abstract:
The Great Depression spurred State ownership in Western capitalist countries. Germany was no exception; the last governments of the Weimar Republic took over firms in diverse sectors. Later, the Nazi regime transferred public ownership and public services to the private sector. In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in the Western capitalist countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. Privatization in Nazi Germany was also unique in transferring to private hands the delivery of public services previously provided by government. The firms and the services transferred to private ownership belonged to diverse sectors. Privatization was part of an intentional policy with multiple objectives and was not ideologically driven. As in many recent privatizations, particularly within the European Union, strong financial restrictions were a central motivation. In addition, privatization was used as a political tool to enhance support for the government and for the Nazi Party.
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Academic historical research trumps your attempt to redefine words.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf


Academic historical research trumps your attempt to redefine words.
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Gosh AC, why did they call it National SOCIALISM if it was really just all free market capitalism?

Capitalism is the formation of CAPITAL by private individuals or corporations for their own personal use. If the State takes all the profit you cannot have capitalism, you have socialism, it matters little who has a piece of paper that shows ownership.
 
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