Environmental / Lighting Controller(s)

I did a search on riu for "trolmaster" and found one thread/result. I have no experience using trolmaster and I'm therefore, obviously, not commenting on it's quality or performance. I'd love to try/have one.

So, I'd like to know what solutions people are using for monitoring and controlling their garden environment (temp, rh, light). It can be wired or wireless. Please, feel free to give details on how things are connected, and definitely what gear it's controlling. I'm looking for suggestions.

Control abilities needed: Temp (heating and/or cooling), Humidity (humidify or dehumidify), photocell (lights on and off, at least - sunrise/set function is bonus. as well as for separate day and nite temp/rh settings). That's really it. It's its capable of adding monitors/controls for co2 - that's bonus too.

I've had looks into (and forgot some maybe):
TrolMaster
Growtronix
the standars (auto pilot, etc.)

This is just "rant":
I'm getting a little discouraged now, haha. I thought trolmaster was a good value/route. I even found a place or two in canada that sells their stuff. But the additional required gear keeps adding up and it's getting to the point where I might as well look at other options now again.
Correct me if I'm wrong...

But the main Hydro-X controller unit does nothing but monitor/display temperature and humidity. It has a photocell, but that does nothing on it's own. So that's it, it has a screen and a 3 in 1 sensor for whatever price you can get it for.
If you want it to control something (that's why you bought it) you need to buy the correct lighting adapter. Then you probably need the correct wiring adapter to connect to that lighting adapter. Then you need to make sure that your drivers (if LED) can be dimmed to 0%/off or only 10%, if they only dim to 10% you'll need to buy another piece of kit - a timed outlet/station to turn the driver on (or on first, if you want to dim it after it's on, or simulate sunrise/set, etc.).

If you want to control a temp device (you do) you buy another device station, and it's only good for a (one) temperature device. If you want to control a humidity device (you do) you buy another device station, and it's only good for a (one) humidity device.
Those device stations are basically $100 each, and that's the "cheaper" ones that are either 120v or 240v, and they can't be used for more than 10amps... and the dehumidify device says a max of 7amps.

If you want to control the three things that the 3 in 1 sensor that comes with the unit can monitor, you actually need to double the price.

Sounds like a great value at first. I like the modularity of it, but...a kit that ships and is able to actually control things would be nice, in my opinion.
Rant off.

Also, if someone can confirm...these "device" stations; anything that's receiving a command/signal from a "controller" in order to switch on a device (heater, fan, etc) like this is really just a relay, right? I'm curious, why aren't they using 15A or 20A relays then?

Why would you size the relays in such a way? This is for 120v 15A and 20A circuits (residential). Even "consumer" grade ACs, Dehueys, Heaters often push more than these device stations are rated for? I honestly don't understand this at all.

I was trying to look into arduino (or other) relays I could somehow maybe use.


Thanks.

You can buy sonoffs that pair with a temp/RH sensor, they work with a pre built and installed firmware that utilizes the app "eWeLink."

$16 - TH16 + Si7021 combo...


If you flash "tasmota" to the sonoff then you won't need to give out your SSID credentials to China. It works fine without flashing tasmota though.

Most 120VAC are on a 20A breaker. You're not technically supposed to pull 20A, rather 80% of 20A, ie 16A. Inrush current can fry components but if your relay is rated for 16A rms then the intial surge current from a 16A rms load will not be enough to damage the component. Its been designed with 16A rms inductive loads in mind.

EDIT:
Actually it looks like it might be cheaper buying the individual parts directly from ITEAD...

ChiefRunningPhist said:

If you flash "tasmota" to the sonoff then you won't need to give out your SSID credentials to China.

Click to expand...

Haha, yea. I don't need to "be able to" dim my lights from another city or country. I don't want to be doing shit from "clouds". Haha.

ChiefRunningPhist said:

Most 120VAC are on a 20A breaker. You're not technically supposed to pull 20A, rather 80% of 20A, ie 16A. Inrush current can fry components but if your relay is rated for 16A rms then the intial surge current from a 16A rms load will not be enough to damage the component. Its been designed with 16A rms inductive loads in mind.

Click to expand...

Most places I've worked at don't have a single 120v 20A circuit, only 15A circuits. I know the 80% rule; 12A on a 15A circuit, etc. One thing I remember. The thing that surprises me is that trolmaster's "device stations" are rated (they recommend/warn) for a max of 10Amp (7A for dehumidify station - which I actually assumed had something to do with the compressor or inrush at startup). Still this is lame, in my opinion. Equipment that will *just* safely meet the requirements for a residential home - won't be able to be used on their device station...but is perfectly able to run on the circuit...just not on their product that is meant to run on that circuit with those types of equipment...? Weird.


I'll have to look into your suggestions there. There is gonna be a minimum of 6 fixtures. Some drivers might be 320w, some might be 240w. Call it 1800w total. I'd prefer each driver type (wattage) be on it's own "channel" but I don't really care too much at this stage of searching.

Wait a second... is getting a bunch of constant voltage drivers a stupid idea as far as amperage availability (for the grow/service)? I never thought about that *specifically*.
A 320h-54 is going to draw roughly 6Amps at max.
A 320h-c2800 is going to draw roughly 3Amps at max.

Both put out the same power, 320watts. But a 15A circuit (loaded to 12%) can only run two of the 320h-54 (CV) driver, where it could handle four of the 320h-c2800 (CC) dirver?
...Is this right?
EDIT: Datasheets seem to say Input for both is 3.5A.

Thanks again, Chief.

The sonoff things sound interesting. Like I said, I'll do a bit a research when I can. I'm getting really burnt out lately, hah.
I'd like something like this, but not "on the internet", more local, like bluetooth or something? What you alluded to with China (anyone) and SSID or other stuff is a concern for me, and the people who I help out .

2com said:

The sonoff things sound interesting. Like I said, I'll do a bit a research when I can. I'm getting really burnt out lately, hah.
I'd like something like this, but not "on the internet", more local, like bluetooth or something? What you alluded to with China (anyone) and SSID or other stuff is a concern for me, and the people who I help out .

Click to expand...

Say you have 2 strings of LEDs, both needing 54V. Placing your LED string between 54V of potential will flow the exact same amount of current regardless the type of driver (high V driver;CC, or low V driver;CV). Though if you wanted to run 2 strings, both each with a Vf of 54V, you'd have to connect them in series or parallel (1 way or the other, they'll have to be connected if running 2 strings), and based upon this type of connection only 1 driver will work in each scenario. In series your Vf becomes 108V, and then the low V, CV driver does not have enough V to flow any current, so you'd have to use the CC, or high V driver. In parallel your Vf remains at 54V, but now you'll need 2× the current, this is where the CC, or high V driver will not work, and you'd have to use the low V, or CV driver. You can see that both are going to burn the same wattage, but 1 load layout (series) uses more V while 1 load layout (parallel) uses more A. So you'd want your LED channels requiring higher Vf if you wanted to take advantage of the CC, or high V driver when it comes to reducing breaker current draw.

Flashing tasmota is pretty easy, it takes a few steps but is repetitive and easy to do imo. Tasmota is just a different program to control your sonoff in replacement of eWeLink. It's free and there's a million videos on YouTube showing how to do it. Tasmota is local so no worrying about "cloud" or external servers.

I'm not sure I've heard of trollmaster and didn't look into it when I read they cost $100+ per unit. The sonoff uses an 8266 chip, if you've been looking into arduino, the sonoff is just an esp8266 that triggers a relay and comes with a nice plastic housing.

Sometimes I hate having the curiosity and inclination to dive so deep into subjects that I can't possibly achieve a workable level of knowledge in the time I have to do so. Know what I mean? Haha.

Yea, the trolmaster is the unit GreenGenes, and MiamiMango use. Here's a link to their informative page. Has parts, and diagram of connections. LINK. I was happy to see it was available, under $400, and did some cool lighting stuff. But it requires more stuff .

In regards to the drivers and what I thought I'd just come to understand. I just noticed something in the datasheets. For both 320h-54, and 320h-c2800, in the "INPUT" row, it lists the input current as 3.5Amps @ 115V for both. (I assume after efficiency, and all that is deducted, that wattage number would be about what the unit draws from the wall?).
But it says the input for both is 3.5A @ 115V, doesn't this kinda make sense? If one of these drivers actually pull twice or half the amount of current as the other one, the wouldn't the other model have to pull either twice or half the voltage (to make them both equal the same wattage)? That would mean one of the drivers would have to be pulling either 60 or 240?... They can't both be pulling the same voltage and a different current..right?

Lol, this difference (in output only?) must be after the driver/transformer(?), on the output. Lol. Ok, I need a dab.

Thanks dude. I always appreciate the chat.

2com said:

Sometimes I hate having the curiosity and inclination to dive so deep into subjects that I can't possibly achieve a workable level of knowledge in the time I have to do so. Know what I mean? Haha.

Yea, the trolmaster is the unit GreenGenes, and MiamiMango use. Here's a link to their informative page. Has parts, and diagram of connections. LINK. I was happy to see it was available, under $400, and did some cool lighting stuff. But it requires more stuff .

In regards to the drivers and what I thought I'd just come to understand. I just noticed something in the datasheets. For both 320h-54, and 320h-c2800, in the "INPUT" row, it lists the input current as 3.5Amps @ 115V for both. (I assume after efficiency, and all that is deducted, that wattage number would be about what the unit draws from the wall?).
But it says the input for both is 3.5A @ 115V, doesn't this kinda make sense? If one of these drivers actually pull twice or half the amount of current as the other one, the wouldn't the other model have to pull either twice or half the voltage (to make them both equal the same wattage)? That would mean one of the drivers would have to be pulling either 60 or 240?... They can't both be pulling the same voltage and a different current..right?

Lol, this difference (in output only?) must be after the driver/transformer(?), on the output. Lol. Ok, I need a dab.

Thanks dude. I always appreciate the chat.

Click to expand...

Yep absolutely, you're thinking correctly again, I've deleted my nonsense about the different drivers drawing different breaker amps. I'm used to trying to maximize load layout given a certain power generation by my supply, and got carried away talking about DC side amps & volts, but it really doesn't matter why I was wrong lol, apologies and good catch.

Totally know what you mean by data overload lol, imo once you get the concept of the sonoff, everything else will click. Ill look at the link.

No problem. I was only correcting my mistake anyway I guess, hah.
Thanks.

If I could save money on any part of the trolmaster hydro-x components by "diy'ing" some aspect, that would be cool. Like the device stations are just relays, but they're communicated with via RJ12 cables. Greengene posted about splicing RJ12 to meanwell pigtails - before they released a specific product for doing it. This is essentially what I'm wondering, if I could buy the main hydro-x controller, and save on areas like their $100 relays.
Probably not, but figured I'd put it out there.

Hey. Sitting outside my local hydro hut getting baked.

WTF software are they using to do all the ultra fancy christmas light chit??? Could that be adapted to control our grow chit?

I don't know. My brain is hurting though. If I could say "fuck it for now" and put it off for a bit I would. But I need some kind of solution or other fairly quickly, haha.

Anecdote: I used to own a cheap, temp-humid-photocell-cycle timer(useless though) controller. I never used it. I was 'stupid' (function wise). I opened it up once, after, just from curiosity. It was basically an empty plastic box...lol. 2 or 3 relays in there I guess. Enough empty space for a PC grow in that stupid box. Hah.

This is cool: https://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.php
There's nothing worse than spending time researching a diy for something, getting the parts together, etc etc. and then you barely save any money - or the functionality is lacking compared to the "real deal" or "retail" product.

@ChiefRunningPhist The sonoffs rated for 10A, but there's not reason I couldn't control three 240h-c2100 drivers with that right? It'd probably be, what, say 6.6A max, with all three.

To diy a sonoff using esp8266, I'd need the esp8266, relay(s), arduino board? Prob cost more than a sonoff, with arduino board. But the code would have to be written for that - which is good in the sense that no wifi (no 'china', lol). And I can't see the arduino code for that being too bad...I say hesitantly.

I just bought the autopilot f90 chiefly due to the praise and long use @Renfro has given to his autopilot models over the time I've spent on riu. I really haven't read anything bad about them (outside of it not being the cheapest piece of equipment)

2com said:

@ChiefRunningPhist The sonoffs rated for 10A, but there's not reason I couldn't control three 240h-c2100 drivers with that right? It'd probably be, what, say 6.6A max, with all three.

To diy a sonoff using esp8266, I'd need the esp8266, relay(s), arduino board? Prob cost more than a sonoff, with arduino board. But the code would have to be written for that - which is good in the sense that no wifi (no 'china', lol). And I can't see the arduino code for that being too bad...I say hesitantly.

Click to expand...

The Sonoff's come in 10A or 16A versions (th10 = 10A, th16 = 16A), and have built in relays included. They are essentially an (esp8266) + (relay). They are pretty much ready to go right out of the box. They require you to wire in an AC plug in one side, as well as wiring the AC device into the other side. Personally, I just cut off the ends of extension cords and splice my Sonoff's in between, then I can control anything that is plugged into the extension cord. You can cut your AC appliance cord and splice the sonoff in that way as well, I just like the the universality that extension cords give me.

You can buy esp8266's as stand alone chips, or in little modules that add a few other components alongside the esp8266 to provide more functionality, ie, antennas, buttons, LEDs, ect. An esp8266 development board is Wi-Fi capable, but it's essentially just a generic microcontroller that won't do anything until you program it to do things. The esp8266 chip requires a V+ & GND connection just like anything electrical, but has several output pins that can be programmed to switch on and off at certain times or at certain rates and all independently of each other. This is where programming comes into play. You'd download the Arduino IDE (it's like Microsoft word except the language you use is not English, but code) and create the program that is needed to control the output pins in the way that you want them to act.

The sonoff uses the esp8266 chip but isn't a development board, it has a singular designed purpose (or at least more singular, essentially it's a wireless on/off switch, it doesn't have a multitude of output pin hookups). So the sonoff PCB's differ from the esp8266 development boards even though they both utilize the same chip. The sonoff comes with a preloaded program that communicates with their free "eWeLink" app, so no need to learn a programming language, mess with downloads to your computer, or USB flashing firmware to the sonoff. Just download the free app and it works.

If you are concerned with privacy, then you'd want to install a different program or firmware than what the sonoff comes preloaded with. This is where tasmota comes into play. Tasmota is a program that's already made and works very well, so here again, you wouldn't have to learn a programming language, only follow a few steps to get this premade program onto your sonoff. It's easiest just watching a vid describing the process but it's not hard, it's as easy as following step by step instructions till you're finished. It will require a $5 - $12 FTDI USB <-> Serial adapter, a few jumper wires, and a bit of soldering (you only have to solder some "hookup" terminals, or "header pins" as they are called).

If you wanted to create your own "Sonoff's" then you'd want to dip a toe into learning Arduino. You'd create and load up your programs instead of using the sonoff firmware, or tasmota. The devices will be even cheaper this way and do exactly as you want, given the program is legit, but the time it takes to develop your device is the hidden cost here. Instead of buying premade Sonoff's, you'd buy an esp8266 or esp32 dev board and add aftermarket relays to switch your loads on/off (depending of course on what you were designing for).

Also, you can use 1 sonoff (or custom built device) to control a multitude of relays that are fed by multiple breakers, so if flashing tasmota sounds like a headache because you've got 10 different loads on several breakers but all needing the same on/off signal at the same time, you can simply wire as many AC relays to a single sonoff output and still realize control over all your loads while only having to use 1 sonoff. Each AC relay on each independent load would be driven by the output of a single sonoff.


The FTDI USB <--> Serial adapter that I bought...

Spliced extension cord...


The green LED comes on when you're connected to your Wi-Fi. It will blink if it's not connected, there's also a little black push button to manually switch on/off regardless if you're connected to Wi-Fi or not...

Thanks @ChiefRunningPhist for the detailed info. It's a tough decision, I've been watching some videos yesterday - more on arduino. It *appears* as though making a relatively simple lighting timer (just on and off) is pretty easy. Using just "delay" command/argument, but I was thinking while watching that using a RTC would be the better approach, wouldn't it? So you can set an actual date, time, etc... The one video I watched the guy just used a "delay" of 12 hours for the on and off (millions of milliseconds) which probably uses up significant memory on the 'duino?

Anyway,
I'm interested in getting a couple parts, just to "dip my toe" and get control over my light on and off schedule. I was thinking...feel free to advise on brand or specific products - I could use it there.

1) Arduino (elegoo clone, or kuman, or original?)
2) Breadboard + wires kit
3) Elegoo 8 channel 5v relay (because it's $2 more than the 4 channel)
4) (A real time clock module. Which one, I've seen several)

I might get a basic Arduino kit, instead of just the board and pc cable, just to get a few random bits (dht11, odds an ends). I already have a resistors kit, the tools, meter, etc.
Also, I'm pretty sure I see 5v 20A and 30A relays that could be used with arduino on amazon. Even see some 5v 30A solid state relays on some robotics/arduino sites. Cool stuff.

Thanks for any (more) advice.
I might grab a sonoff and that cable as well, to play with.
TrolMaster would cost about $900-$1000 just to control temp/rh/light/ and two other timed devices, with day night (and data logging and all that extra great stuff...but it's just a lot of money).

Dryxi said:

I just bought the autopilot f90 chiefly due to the praise and long use @Renfro has given to his autopilot models over the time I've spent on riu. I really haven't read anything bad about them (outside of it not being the cheapest piece of equipment)

Click to expand...

Well, I like that it monitors and controls it's parameters without having to buy more stuff. But it's pricey for what you get, and limited for what I want. Also it has co2 and we don't even have access to co2 here, so that's a waste of a function unfortunately.

Thanks for your input

When it comes to ezpz temp/humidity monitoring gadgets.
Here's a great value, both cost and functionality.

TintEastwood said:

When it comes to ezpz temp/humidity monitoring gadgets.
Here's a great value, both cost and functionality.

ECOWITT GW1000 Wi-Fi Gateway - Flippin sweet

Awesome little device. About the size of a matchbox. Free web based anytime anywhere access, and free history data. Cheaper than many decent temp/humidity gauges! This app/view limited to devices on same network the GW1000 is connected to. Web. Anytime anywhere. Showing sensor 1.

www.rollitup.org

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Hey man. So playing with those is what you've been up to. Haha.
Thanks for the suggestion. I just can't do the whole "cloud server" thing.

This. Sounds. Amazing.
Videos section has some description of functions of system. Incredible sounding system.