Ethics of Guerilla growing on someone else's land

potheadsmoker · Jan 20, 2009

specialkayme said:
I think if I KNEW that the true owner could not be penalized in anyway I would feel better about it, but I would still have a hard time with the idea that I'm using and abusing him and his land. If there was someway to get over that idea as well, then I wouldn't have a problem with growing on his land.

But those are two rather big obstacles.

i dont know where you live but, where i live i read the laws about growing marijuana, it states the owner of the house/property is not the person that loses out its the person growing, think about renting...if you rent to somebody and they are growing crops in your house and you dont know, do you think you are going to get prosecuted for a crime you did not commit? no same rules apply to land you said he doesnt stay there! why could he get prosecuted for something he had no idea about, if something did happen i imagine he could get a lawyer and there wouldnt be too much to talk about after that. there would be an investigation, i imagine they would have to have more evidence than juist the bud, there has to be a motiv for inwhich you commit a crime via self defense, wanting to smoke dank buds, this guy fucked your girl so you wanted to kill him etc you get the point.

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

potheadsmoker said:
i dont know where you live but, where i live i read the laws about growing marijuana, it states the owner of the house/property is not the person that loses out its the person growing, think about renting...if you rent to somebody and they are growing crops in your house and you dont know, do you think you are going to get prosecuted for a crime you did not commit? no same rules apply to land you said he doesnt stay there! why could he get prosecuted for something he had no idea about, if something did happen i imagine he could get a lawyer and there wouldnt be too much to talk about after that. there would be an investigation, i imagine they would have to have more evidence than juist the bud, there has to be a motiv for inwhich you commit a crime via self defense, wanting to smoke dank buds, this guy fucked your girl so you wanted to kill him etc you get the point.

I don't mean to question or accuse or anything, but is there anyway you could provide me with a link about where you got that information? If you want to mask it (or pm it to me) so no one can tell what state you are in, that's cool. I'm just interested in the information.

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

Good News! Well, kinda. More like interesting news.

Snow day today. So, after watching the president being sworn in, and then after a few beers, I decided to go hiking and exploring. It ends up there is alot more to that 5 million dollar land than the eye leads to.

About a mile or two in, I found an old, probably hand made barn type structure. Not actually a barn, but something like it. What was really weird was that it was in the middle of the woods. It started to clear around it, but no road or dirt path leading to or from it. All around it there were thousands of container pots, like the kind nursuries have. I mean thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of them.

So I explored further. There were a few dirt paths, some for walking, some for trucks. Then there was a manmade lake, with two sheds near by, that housed irrigation equipment.

About 100-200 yards north of the manmade lake (following the irrigation lines) there were a number of paviliions. The kind that are made out of pvc or metal pipes, with a rebarb criss cross roof, then black plastic (the kind used in nursuries to filter light) stretched over top of the "pavilion". If you understand what I'm saying, amazing, but if my explanation doesn't make sense I'll try and go back to take pictures. (girlfriend took the camera saying "yay snow day!")

The site has not been used in several years. There were a number of trees growing straight through the pavilion roof. Some of the trees had to have been 3-4 years old, at least.

So, the way I see it, either that site used to house some type of nursury, or tree farm, or someone else was growing pot there, in a big operation. My guess is probably the former, rather than the latter, but you can make your own assumptions.

I then got bored and explored the woods around it, several streams, one swampy marsh area. Two hunter's deer stands (potentally bad) that were only a year or two old.

All and all, it doesn't really mean much, but if I were to grow on the property (which I'm heavily leaning toward not doing it), I found quite a few great spots.

Bad news is that I would not be able to find the spots again. I would need a GPS in order to find them.

Anyone know a good, yet cheap handheld GPS to use?

ragged crushing · Jan 20, 2009

eff that go for it! plant many in many places during may and let nature take its course, come back in oct to harvest. you get what u get, hey look at it as a gift for free so if somthing goes wrong wit any plants youll have more and only visit once in mid summer to feed flower nuets.

i have a spot near a saltwater marsh hidden near a low barely no traffic fishing dock that no one enters in the summer due to ticks and mosquitos. plant and forget till oct, thats how i plan to do mine. by the time harvest is ready, bugs are gone and fishing season will be fading.

Mr Big · Jan 20, 2009

specialkayme said:
Hey guys,

So I was just wondering, since I'm new to outdoor growing, or Guerilla growing for that mater, what are the ethics behind growing on someone else's property

Hmmm ethics well first take the blame if the owner gets locked up for growing drugs on his property second buy him some new land after the cops seize his land for growing drugs on his property.

But me, i dont believe in ethics, i am a no good motherfucker. I would just do what ever i wanted to do.

ak40kush · Jan 20, 2009

id try to monitor the land on a slightly irregluar scheduel to see how often people are by there if any people go back there man. once you know its uses and where people may or may not go then id decide depending on the results. id do it though. dont take down trees as it will give you away cause of activity (noise,visual ect..) and dont go check on them very often only during hot spells in the summer. just water say once every week and a half or 2 weeks depending on soil type there (retains water then water less frequent (duh.)) and also to minimise the possibility of being caught or of evidence your there try to find a fertilizer stake you can put in at the plants. they last a good amount of time and depending on your food choices it could be cheaper.

I have done guerilla style before and had some good results.

i hope this can give insight and useful information

cheers!

LordOfWar · Jan 20, 2009

Special K, u got too options: 1) Grow on the government land, that way u have a clear concience (lets face it, the government rip us poor people off everyday with a mirade of taxes, so its only fair to use THIER land for grow purposes) and 2) Find a good dealer and keep buying your weed from them untill u can find some where more suitable for growing.

LordOfWar · Jan 20, 2009

specialkayme said:
Good News! Well, kinda. More like interesting news.

Snow day today. So, after watching the president being sworn in, and then after a few beers, I decided to go hiking and exploring. It ends up there is alot more to that 5 million dollar land than the eye leads to.

About a mile or two in, I found an old, probably hand made barn type structure. Not actually a barn, but something like it. What was really weird was that it was in the middle of the woods. It started to clear around it, but no road or dirt path leading to or from it. All around it there were thousands of container pots, like the kind nursuries have. I mean thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of them.

So I explored further. There were a few dirt paths, some for walking, some for trucks. Then there was a manmade lake, with two sheds near by, that housed irrigation equipment.

About 100-200 yards north of the manmade lake (following the irrigation lines) there were a number of paviliions. The kind that are made out of pvc or metal pipes, with a rebarb criss cross roof, then black plastic (the kind used in nursuries to filter light) stretched over top of the "pavilion". If you understand what I'm saying, amazing, but if my explanation doesn't make sense I'll try and go back to take pictures. (girlfriend took the camera saying "yay snow day!")

The site has not been used in several years. There were a number of trees growing straight through the pavilion roof. Some of the trees had to have been 3-4 years old, at least.

So, the way I see it, either that site used to house some type of nursury, or tree farm, or someone else was growing pot there, in a big operation. My guess is probably the former, rather than the latter, but you can make your own assumptions.

I then got bored and explored the woods around it, several streams, one swampy marsh area. Two hunter's deer stands (potentally bad) that were only a year or two old.

All and all, it doesn't really mean much, but if I were to grow on the property (which I'm heavily leaning toward not doing it), I found quite a few great spots.

Bad news is that I would not be able to find the spots again. I would need a GPS in order to find them.

Anyone know a good, yet cheap handheld GPS to use?

Garmin E-Trek GPS are great, cheap, reliable and excellent functions and easy to use. The spot sounds like there is a moderate risk level to security

potheadsmoker · Jan 20, 2009

PUBLIC HEALTH CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 368 of 1978

333.7401 Manufacturing, creating, delivering, or possessing with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver controlled substance, prescription form, or counterfeit prescription form; dispensing, prescribing, or administering controlled substance; violations; penalties; consecutive terms; discharge from lifetime probation; “plant” defined.
Sec. 7401.
(1) Except as authorized by this article, a person shall not manufacture, create, deliver, or possess with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver a controlled substance, a prescription form, or a counterfeit prescription form. A practitioner licensed by the administrator under this article shall not dispense, prescribe, or administer a controlled substance for other than legitimate and professionally recognized therapeutic or scientific purposes or outside the scope of practice of the practitioner, licensee, or applicant.

it states a person shall not create, manufacture, etc with the INTENT, now what i understand from that is, they can not charge him without intent to commit the crime

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

potheadsmoker said:
PUBLIC HEALTH CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 368 of 1978

333.7401 Manufacturing, creating, delivering, or possessing with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver controlled substance, prescription form, or counterfeit prescription form; dispensing, prescribing, or administering controlled substance; violations; penalties; consecutive terms; discharge from lifetime probation; plant defined.
Sec. 7401.
(1) Except as authorized by this article, a person shall not manufacture, create, deliver, or possess with intent to manufacture, create, or deliver a controlled substance, a prescription form, or a counterfeit prescription form. A practitioner licensed by the administrator under this article shall not dispense, prescribe, or administer a controlled substance for other than legitimate and professionally recognized therapeutic or scientific purposes or outside the scope of practice of the practitioner, licensee, or applicant.

it states a person shall not create, manufacture, etc with the INTENT, now what i understand from that is, they can not charge him without intent to commit the crime

True, but intent is viewed subjectively, based upon your actions, lack of actions, or the evidence provided. Claiming that you did not have the intent to grow pot on your land because you did not know about it is a weak defense.

If it worked as straight foreword as you imply, then no one would be charged with cannabis cultivation. Everyone that got caught would just say "It's not mine! I have no intent to do this!".

Just as equally, if you can prove that you were unaware that a substance is illegal, you can not have the intent necessary to violate the law (which is actually true). But how many people do you think after getting arrested for possession would say "I didn't know weed was illegal" if that was an actual defense. So, the bar is kinda set high for that kinda thing. If you can show a shit load of evidence to show that you legitimately did not know, then you can get out (such as being from another country, being a kid, or mentally deficient, ect), but not before.

Not only that, but unless you are a lawyer (which I'm assuming you are not, feel free to correct me if I assumed something that I shouldn't have) then you are putting other people's freedom and security on the line under your own personal interpretation of the law, which may or may not be accurate.

potheadsmoker · Jan 20, 2009

thats like saying if you plant a plant at restaurant or a gas station that the owner is going to go to jail because there was marijuana growing there i really dont feel this is the case? they cant just charge someone because they have plants on their property growing...if some asshole shot and killed somebody 2 blocks up the street from you and he somes to your house and digs a hole and throws the gun in there does that mean you killed the bum down the street? theres more to it then just possesion, they would investigate the case for awhile...they would watch the guys moves...follow him, you think they would just say hey you got plants growing your a drug dealer or a "drug addict"...

i mean if you really want to know got to norml.org they have everything you need to know, if they dont send the contact an email and ask him what would happen to the guy if you think he would go to jail.

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

I'm not saying he would go to jail. I'm not saying he would be punished. I'm saying there is a POSSIBILITY that he could get punished, or suffer some other penalty.

Using your scenario, if the cops busted down your door, found an unregistered gun in your living room that was later found to be used in a murder, you watching tv. You have no alibi of where you were, and a video tape of where you got in an argument with the dead guy. Do you think that is enough to arrest you for murder? You bet your sweet ass it is. Probably not enough to get you convicted, but who knows.

Now to our situation. If the cops come on his land (for whatever reason) and find pot plants there, do you think there is even a possibility, not necessarily a likelihood, but even a chance, that the cops will arrest him for cannabis cultivation? I think there is a chance. He probably wouldn't be convicted, but arrested is an option. Arrests go on your record. Who is to say that in the process of investigation they find out that he was lying on his taxes, and he goes to jail for that. Or lets say that he has a job in which he can't have a record. The arrest that I got him into would make him lose his job.

There are a thousand things that could happen to him. I don't think they would, but they could. Nothing good could come to him. That's putting his safety, his freedom, his life at risk so that I can use his land for my own personal gain. That's what I have a problem with.

beginningbotanist420 · Jan 20, 2009

What i is when i discovered my plot it simple. Leave something there that you know people will take and something noticeable. Make sure its somethire relatively valuable or wanted or something people will pick up if they see it. Also make sure its not something that'll get destroyed if it gets rained on. Make sure its something noticeable too. Take a few things kinda scattered around. Leave it there for 2-3 weeks. If its still there when you come back, chances are no ones been there to see it and take it...

I took a bright orange basketball and a new bright blue walmart [~50$] baseball bat and half dozen yellow baseballs to one of my plots [kinda near a place where little kids play]; to another one, i took a few old t-shirts and a semi-deflated beachball with some water in the bottom to add weight. All of this stuff i already had and didn't use anymore,so just clean out some junk out of your storage closet

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

beginningbotanist420 said:
What i is when i discovered my plot it simple. Leave something there that you know people will take and something noticeable. Make sure its somethire relatively valuable or wanted or something people will pick up if they see it. Also make sure its not something that'll get destroyed if it gets rained on. Make sure its something noticeable too. Take a few things kinda scattered around. Leave it there for 2-3 weeks. If its still there when you come back, chances are no ones been there to see it and take it...

I took a bright orange basketball and a new bright blue walmart [~50$] baseball bat and half dozen yellow baseballs to one of my plots [kinda near a place where little kids play]; to another one, i took a few old t-shirts and a semi-deflated beachball with some water in the bottom to add weight. All of this stuff i already had and didn't use anymore,so just clean out some junk out of your storage closet

Awesome suggestion. You pull through yet again!

Now only to think about something that a construction worker type person would want ... or a middle aged man ....

P.s. I noticed you were looking for a giggly strain ..... how about Laughing Buddha? I'm going to be trying it (maybe) this summer, so I don't know first hand, but hopefully it helps.

potheadsmoker · Jan 20, 2009

beginningbotanist420 said:
What i is when i discovered my plot it simple. Leave something there that you know people will take and something noticeable. Make sure its somethire relatively valuable or wanted or something people will pick up if they see it. Also make sure its not something that'll get destroyed if it gets rained on. Make sure its something noticeable too. Take a few things kinda scattered around. Leave it there for 2-3 weeks. If its still there when you come back, chances are no ones been there to see it and take it...

I took a bright orange basketball and a new bright blue walmart [~50$] baseball bat and half dozen yellow baseballs to one of my plots [kinda near a place where little kids play]; to another one, i took a few old t-shirts and a semi-deflated beachball with some water in the bottom to add weight. All of this stuff i already had and didn't use anymore,so just clean out some junk out of your storage closet

lol a good idea but i dont think that one applys right now...
i totally understand your what your saying about what could happen to the guy....sucks you dont have wooded area around your house to grow at that isnt private....

outdoor master · Jan 20, 2009

didnt you say the guy moves away or lives somewhere else? Listen 5 million dollar property, thats atleast a couple hundred acres. You can easily get away with 20-30 plants. sow a 5x5 25 sqr feet, 5 rows 5 plants each row. simple. make sure its a fast finishing strain due to deer hunters, or put the plants away from the stands opposite side of property.

outdoor master · Jan 20, 2009

GOOGLE EARTH HIS FIELD, THAT WILL show u that pavilion and any other structures on the property with out GPs locator you can print out the satelllite images then go out there on foot use it as a blueprint

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

potheadsmoker said:
....sucks you dont have wooded area around your house to grow at that isnt private....

Ah men brother!

outdoor master said:
didnt you say the guy moves away or lives somewhere else? Listen 5 million dollar property, thats atleast a couple hundred acres. You can easily get away with 20-30 plants. sow a 5x5 25 sqr feet, 5 rows 5 plants each row. simple. make sure its a fast finishing strain due to deer hunters, or put the plants away from the stands opposite side of property.

What time is deer season anyway? Never have been much of a hunter myself.

outdoor master said:
GOOGLE EARTH HIS FIELD, THAT WILL show u that pavilion and any other structures on the property with out GPs locator you can print out the satelllite images then go out there on foot use it as a blueprint

I've already done that, just for fun. I knew one of the pavilions was there, but not the other. I didn't know the lake was man made, or that there was an irigation system, or that there were canopy covers, or that there were hundreds of thousands of growing containers.

But my orienteering skills are up to snuff, so I would be able to get to the site and back with only a compass and a piece of paper. I wouldn't even need a map. But GPS is so much fun!

potheadsmoker · Jan 20, 2009

hunting season here starts nov.1st

specialkayme · Jan 20, 2009

Most strains end by late October anyway, so I don't see hunting season being too much of a concern.

Ethics of Guerilla growing on someone else's land

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