Europe Timeline 3 months

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InCognition

Active Member
Harrekin said:
You realise a currency that is backed by nothing other than "integrity" is a fiat currency right? If your problem is with the Federal Reserve just say so, but a fiat currency that is controlled properly and in a transparent fashion is the most practical solution for today. Gold standard just isn't practical anymore and it's a joke term to modern economists.

Its a bit sad that you and NoDrama jumped on my "there's not enough gold" comment, use your brains, I was clearly referring to the fact there's not enough gold held in sovereign reserves to back an extremely large currency like the USD There must be hundreds of trillions of dollars in circulation.

Just try fix the current system, add a gold-backed sub currency and stop humping turtles with Old Mc Ronald, as I said before, if you want a pragmatic libertarian to worship, GJ is a far better choice (and less likely to die any day soon).
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You don't appear to fully understand FIAT currencies. A FIAT currency is not backed by integrity, especially when the largest FIAT currency in the world, that bears a monopoly over the world's economy is rolling off a printing press at rates you couldn't comprehend. That's not integrity... it's a intricately structured form of robbery, and complex form of taxation thereafter.

And you somehow, to my amazement, still lack the ability to comprehend what I'm stating regarding a cryptocurrency system. The entire point of a non-asset backed, cryptocurrency system would be to make a form of currency that is controlled properly and in a transparent fashion. Is that not what you stated? Paper money will never come close to being controlled properly, nor with it ever be used in a transparent fashion.

The entire premise of the paper money system we have today in correlation with our government's operations, is so that the government can subliminally and discretely tax the country's people, without the people being fully aware that they're being taxed. Meanwhile the government puts up the facade that their FIAT money is to properly regulate the markets. A sound currency does not need a 3rd party to regulate the market, in which that currency is used in, and ultimately creates.

I don't understand why you are telling "NoDrama" that he makes much more sense than me. I fail to see what you didn't understand in regards to his last statement... I said gold can be revalued, not because I make no sense, but because it can be revalued, just as it has in the past. The price per ounce of gold would vastly increase, but that has no bearing on the ability for gold to back the US dollar. So I make no to you regarding the revaluation of gold, but someone else saying the same thing does? Funny how that works...
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Come to think of it ... yes. But things like food and medicine have inherent value, while that of gold and gems is a bit more notional. cn
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Seems odd that they would want to make Gold a tier 1 asset if they didn't think it had any value.

The federal bank regulatory agencies (the agencies) have jointly issued the attached Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (proposed rule) that would revise the measurement of risk-weighted assets by implementing changes made by the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision (BCBS) to international regulatory capital standards and by implementing aspects of the Dodd-Frank Act.
...
A. Zero Percent Risk-Weighted Items

The following exposures would receive a zero percent risk weight under the proposal:

•Cash;
•Gold bullion;
•Direct and unconditional claims on the U.S. government, its central bank, or a U.S. government agency;
•Exposures unconditionally guaranteed by the U.S. government, its central bank, or a U.S. government agency;
•Claims on certain supranational entities (such as the International Monetary Fund) and certain multilateral development banking organizations
•Claims on and exposures unconditionally guaranteed by sovereign entities that meet certain criteria
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Have any idea what a tier 1 asset is considered?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
NoDrama said:
Seems odd that they would want to make Gold a tier 1 asset if they didn't think it had any value.



Have any idea what a tier 1 asset is considered?
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Well if the fiat currency argument has any merit at all (I am not endorsing it), cash isn't a real asset either. All systems of money rely on an essentially artificial agreement on value. cn
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
When isn't a currency fiat? When it is gold.
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Cannabineers point was gold has no inherent value bar the notional one applied by humans. How much is bullion worth to a chimpanzee? But how much is food worth to same?

Fiat currencies would be fine, if we had an AI controlled Central Bank, no possibility of greed there.
 
I

InCognition

Active Member
cannabineer said:
But every currency is fiat at its roots. The value of gold is a shared fiction. cn
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Gold's value outside of it's material use in products & goods, is based on the fact that it's a naturally and logarithmically created "asset", thus it has an inherent ability to maintain integrity because it can not be created at any given rate, out of thin air, as compared to a true FIAT currency. The more gold there is, the more expensive it becomes to produce. It operates on an entirely different level than a FIAT currency due to this aspect alone.

Also, because gold has an natural ability to maintain integrity, it has value. Due to it's inherent integrity, gold will retain that "value" very well. It's much less prone to manipulation by humans, in regards to it's creation.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
InCognition said:
Gold's value outside of it's material use in products & goods, is based on the fact that it's a naturally and logarithmically created "asset", thus it has an inherent ability to maintain integrity because it can not be created at any given rate, out of thin air, as compared to a true FIAT currency. The more gold there is, the more expensive it becomes to produce. It operates on an entirely different level than a FIAT currency due to this aspect alone.

Also, because gold has an natural ability to maintain integrity, it has value. Due to it's inherent integrity, gold will retain that "value" very well. It's much less prone to manipulation by humans, in regards to it's creation.
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These are all good, fine and true qualities, but their relationship to value andor valuation is arbitrary. I'm not saying false or bad or let's do otherwise ... i am saying, without a <cough!> value judgment, that the valuation of gold has nothing to do with its natural properties; it is artifice.
What gold does have on its side that currency never did or will is fungibility. That gives it a high relative value in the minds of those who establish it. cn
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
I bet the bank on Germany exiting the Euro first. Then it will fall apart.
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That'll never happen, the Germans have too much to lose and have been pushing for European unity for 60 years.

They also benefit the most from the euro as a central European export based economy.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
There economy cannot prop up the entire Euro sector. If they stay in it will cost them dearly.
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If the Euro fails it'll cost them alot more.

Theyre paying in monopoly money that they can basically print, you have to remember this.
 
Balzac89

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
As far as I have read the President of Germany wants no part of it and MErkel wants to go head first into the storm printing presses blazing.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
As far as I have read the President of Germany wants no part of it and MErkel wants to go head first into the storm printing presses blazing.
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It's all "fiscal conservatism" in Germany, it's why Merkel can't just do what needs to be done, she'd look like a hypocrit at home.

Plus Germany does definately benefit from a common currency with their European exports.
 
I

InCognition

Active Member
cannabineer said:
These are all good, fine and true qualities, but their relationship to value andor valuation is arbitrary. I'm not saying false or bad or let's do otherwise ... i am saying, without a <cough!> value judgment, that the valuation of gold has nothing to do with its natural properties; it is artifice.
What gold does have on its side that currency never did or will is fungibility. That gives it a high relative value in the minds of those who establish it. cn
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I understand what you're saying.

The value of gold pertains to what you have stated above, but it can be argued that when gold is compared to FIAT currency, it's not even remotely in the same realm of "value", when you look at the pure logistics between the two and how they obtain that "value".
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Well since I must use currency to buy gold ... unless I find the gold directly, say as a placer ... I can't practically distinguish the valuation regime/criteria. There needs to be a conversion factor between gold and cash; currently it floats and responds to gold market pressures. If adopted as a standard, that flotation goes awayby definition, with intended/unintended consequences.

I've spent the last few minutes reading about a proposed return to the gold standard, but the part I don't get is how to allow for sudden generators of real wealth, like new technologies, to be free of being corseted by a limited, nearly fixed resource being held at a de facto fixed value. What am I missing? cn
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Well since I must use currency to buy gold ... unless I find the gold directly, say as a placer ... I can't practically distinguish the valuation regime/criteria. There needs to be a conversion factor between gold and cash; currently it floats and responds to gold market pressures. If adopted as a standard, that flotation goes awayby definition, with intended/unintended consequences.

I've spent the last few minutes reading about a proposed return to the gold standard, but the part I don't get is how to allow for sudden generators of real wealth, like new technologies, to be free of being corseted by a limited, nearly fixed resource being held at a de facto fixed value. What am I missing? cn
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Previously they used silver alongside Gold which was much more prevalent in the earth's crust than gold, alas according to the USGS, silver will be so difficult to find in any significant amounts that it will be the first Element on the periodic table to essentially be extinct, supposedly by 2020, so its not going to help this time.

It is a good question, but I think gold will not be used as a physical device, instead we will use warehouse receipts for the stored gold and call them dollars.
 
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