Expanding my living soil grow

by2

by2

Active Member
So up until now I only had 1 tent to both veg and flower in, but have recently upgraded so I now have 2 tents. 60X120cm for veg and 77x150cm for veg
I have used 2x75l grassroots living soil pots in the tent and it's been fine but I don't like that I have o veg for so long. So thought about to go down in pot size.

But I am not sure what size to go with or if it is worth paying the premium price for grassroots fabric pots.
Does any one have experience with living soil in smaller pots?
And can't I just get normal fabric pots and then wrap them in some plastic to get the same result? or does it really make a big difference?

I will use Blumat watering for flowering so I don't need to water manually so often.

Part nr 2...
I will also need more soil then I have now so will be blending my old soil with new soil so its the same in all pots.
Only problem is that UK left the EU since I last ordered my amendments and I don't want to pay premium just to get them same amendments as the original soil.
Would there be a problem to use another Amendment blend when mixing new and old soil?
Any recommendations of available ones in EU?
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
So up until now I only had 1 tent to both veg and flower in, but have recently upgraded so I now have 2 tents. 60X120cm for veg and 77x150cm for veg
I have used 2x75l grassroots living soil pots in the tent and it's been fine but I don't like that I have o veg for so long. So thought about to go down in pot size.

But I am not sure what size to go with or if it is worth paying the premium price for grassroots fabric pots.
Does any one have experience with living soil in smaller pots?
And can't I just get normal fabric pots and then wrap them in some plastic to get the same result? or does it really make a big difference?

I will use Blumat watering for flowering so I don't need to water manually so often.

Part nr 2...
I will also need more soil then I have now so will be blending my old soil with new soil so its the same in all pots.
Only problem is that UK left the EU since I last ordered my amendments and I don't want to pay premium just to get them same amendments as the original soil.
Would there be a problem to use another Amendment blend when mixing new and old soil?
Any recommendations of available ones in EU?
Click to expand...
Cheers to living soil! And I'm jealous of your second tent.

Bigger pots are easier for living soil, but smaller can be done. 75L is about the size I use. I've gotten away with 20L, but keeping the moisture level correct requires vigilance and/or automation.

Wrapping the sides of fabric pots with plastic is a good way to more easily maintain proper soil moisture. I would keep the bottom open for drainage and circulation (anaerobic conditions in living soil can arise and jack your soil pH).

I can't help regarding EU/UK markets. I doubt it's an issue to substitute similar products. I've been recycling my soil for years and it's a Frankenstein mishmash of all sorts of stuff.

You mentioned not wanting to veg for so long. Many of us here are fans of SIPs (living soil ease with hydro growth).

SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Sub-irrigated planter From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sub-Irrigated Planter Sub-irrigated planter (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from...
www.rollitup.org

Might help resolve your "pot dilemma." :eyesmoke:
 
Hook Daddy

Hook Daddy

Well-Known Member
GenericEnigma said:
Cheers to living soil! And I'm jealous of your second tent.

Bigger pots are easier for living soil, but smaller can be done. 75L is about the size I use. I've gotten away with 20L, but keeping the moisture level correct requires vigilance and/or automation.

Wrapping the sides of fabric pots with plastic is a good way to more easily maintain proper soil moisture. I would keep the bottom open for drainage and circulation (anaerobic conditions in living soil can arise and jack your soil pH).

I can't help regarding EU/UK markets. I doubt it's an issue to substitute similar products. I've been recycling my soil for years and it's a Frankenstein mishmash of all sorts of stuff.

You mentioned not wanting to veg for so long. Many of us here are fans of SIPs (living soil ease with hydro growth).

SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Sub-irrigated planter From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sub-Irrigated Planter Sub-irrigated planter (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from...
www.rollitup.org

Might help resolve your "pot dilemma." :eyesmoke:
Click to expand...
Once you go SIP, you’ll never go back to drip!
 
by2

by2

Active Member
GenericEnigma said:
Cheers to living soil! And I'm jealous of your second tent.

Bigger pots are easier for living soil, but smaller can be done. 75L is about the size I use. I've gotten away with 20L, but keeping the moisture level correct requires vigilance and/or automation.

Wrapping the sides of fabric pots with plastic is a good way to more easily maintain proper soil moisture. I would keep the bottom open for drainage and circulation (anaerobic conditions in living soil can arise and jack your soil pH).

I can't help regarding EU/UK markets. I doubt it's an issue to substitute similar products. I've been recycling my soil for years and it's a Frankenstein mishmash of all sorts of stuff.

You mentioned not wanting to veg for so long. Many of us here are fans of SIPs (living soil ease with hydro growth).

SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Sub-irrigated planter From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sub-Irrigated Planter Sub-irrigated planter (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from...
www.rollitup.org

Might help resolve your "pot dilemma." :eyesmoke:
Click to expand...

I know bigger pots are generally easier and that's why I am so hesitant to downsize.
Did you flower in 20L pots? how long did you veg for?

I would love to go with 10x25l pots in flower and 3x25l in veg. I could then harvest 3 at the time and have a good rotation. And the 25L pots fits perfectly on the Tray to Grow (already have it) so that's a bonus. This seems like the most fun way to go with but I'm afraid it's too much work.
I guess some other options would be 3x75l, 5x56l or 6x38l. I have read some where that 180-250L of living soil per m2 light is a good amount so all the options should be fine.

I can't justify the price for Grassroots pots so will try the getto style this time. Maybe even try some without to make a comparison. Lets see how motivated I am.

I have been looking in to the whole SIP bucket thing and it is crazy how well it performs for most growers. But it will be less expensive for me to stay with Blumat for now since I already have most part.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
I know bigger pots are generally easier and that's why I am so hesitant to downsize.
Did you flower in 20L pots? how long did you veg for?

I would love to go with 10x25l pots in flower and 3x25l in veg. I could then harvest 3 at the time and have a good rotation. And the 25L pots fits perfectly on the Tray to Grow (already have it) so that's a bonus. This seems like the most fun way to go with but I'm afraid it's too much work.
I guess some other options would be 3x75l, 5x56l or 6x38l. I have read some where that 180-250L of living soil per m2 light is a good amount so all the options should be fine.

I can't justify the price for Grassroots pots so will try the getto style this time. Maybe even try some without to make a comparison. Lets see how motivated I am.

I have been looking in to the whole SIP bucket thing and it is crazy how well it performs for most growers. But it will be less expensive for me to stay with Blumat for now since I already have most part.
Click to expand...
I just switched some sativa-heavy clones to 11/13. They're in 20L fabric pots. These will stretch at least 2x, more like 3x - so not much veg. I'd keep it short in a smaller pot anyway.

This one will be a challenge. Keeping the plant count down.

20240921_190654.jpg
 
Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
5 gallon pots are way too small for growing LOS, the plants will deplete the soil. You can feed but if you really want to do a water only type LOS youre going to have to go at least 20 gallon IMHO.

You can search the organic threads here for other opinions.

Yes grassroots pots are worth it, but if you are working on the bluemats and keeping the soil at the right moisture they are less of a benefit.
 
by2

by2

Active Member
GenericEnigma said:
I just switched some sativa-heavy clones to 11/13. They're in 20L fabric pots. These will stretch at least 2x, more like 3x - so not much veg. I'd keep it short in a smaller pot anyway.

This one will be a challenge. Keeping the plant count down.

View attachment 5427313
Click to expand...
Looks beautiful!
I guess you remix the soil after each cycle?

I guess I have come to my senses and is leaning toward a bed instead. 1 bed on one side 70x70cm. And use the other side with the 75L pots I already have. Maybe experiment with some smaller pots as well. It's easy to try it out with the Blumats.
 
by2

by2

Active Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
5 gallon pots are way too small for growing LOS, the plants will deplete the soil. You can feed but if you really want to do a water only type LOS youre going to have to go at least 20 gallon IMHO.

You can search the organic threads here for other opinions.

Yes grassroots pots are worth it, but if you are working on the bluemats and keeping the soil at the right moisture they are less of a benefit.
Click to expand...
Yeah I really like the living soil concept, and it's been doing good for me. Currently running both living soil and Coco with salt nutrient and I don't enjoy the coco grow.
I have alway wanted a bed so I think it might be time to get one.
I'm thinking of 1 bed on one side and use the other side with the 20 gallons.

I use 20 gallon grassroots pots right now and it's been great. 6 cycles in and I love them. Im not arguing that the liner is not useful, it most defiantly is. I just think they are over priced.
I can get a standard 20 gallon pot for 3,6€ and just wrap it in plastic and I would imagine I would get the same result. It won't look pretty and I hate that but I save some money.
 
by2

by2

Active Member
I have 3 options regarding soil amendments. It is interesting to see that the recommendation to use is so much different from the 2 companies.
They all recommend the same base soil. 33%peat 33%EWC33%aeration.

Option 1
True soil Reg - 1kg/10l soil - 25l=119€ (0,476€/l)
  • Kelp Meal - brown algae powder
  • Insect Frass Pellets
  • Neem Cake
  • Sheep's wool pellets
  • DIABAS primary rock flour
  • Andesite primary rock flour
  • Betonite
  • Algae lime
  • Dolomite lime
  • Plant pellets
  • Naturpur semolina
  • Horn meal
  • Horn shavings
  • Soft earth raw phosphates
  • Sulphur granules

  • N: 2,57 %
  • P: 1,1 %
  • K: 1,29 %
  • Ca: 5,47 %
  • Mg: 2,11 %
  • S: 0,88 %
  • SiO2: 13,1 %
  • Tonerde: 1,3 %
  • Fe: 1,06 %
  • Na: 0,39 %


Option 2
True soil Veg - 1kg/10l soil - 10kg=119€ (0,476€/l)

Kelp Meal - Brown Algae Powder
Neem Cake
DIABAS Primary Rock Flour
Andesite Primary Rock Flour
Betonite
Algae Lime
Dolomite Lime
Plant Pellets
Naturpur Semolina
Soft Earth Rock Phosphates
Sulphur Granules


N: 1,88 %
P: 1,2 %
K: 1,02 %
Ca: 6,09 %
Mg: 2,05 %
S: 0,83 %
SiO2: 14,59 %
Tonerde: 1,18 %
Fe: 1,18 %
Na: 0,48 %


Option 3
Life-Cycle - 200g/10l soil - 5kg=31€ (0,124€/l)

Mealworm Frass
Neem
Premium Seaweed Meal:
Gypsum
Insect Meal
Rock Phosphate
Basalt Rock Dust
Humic and Fulvic Acids

N/P2O5/K2O/+ Mg/Ca - 2 /4.5 /2.4/ + 1/6


Price is also a big difference. I would not say it is expensive in any way but it is a significant price difference.
Option 1 and 2 is from the same company while option 3 is from another company.
They both state to use premium amendments.

What would you choose?
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
I have 3 options regarding soil amendments. It is interesting to see that the recommendation to use is so much different from the 2 companies.
They all recommend the same base soil. 33%peat 33%EWC33%aeration.

Option 1
True soil Reg - 1kg/10l soil - 25l=119€ (0,476€/l)
  • Kelp Meal - brown algae powder
  • Insect Frass Pellets
  • Neem Cake
  • Sheep's wool pellets
  • DIABAS primary rock flour
  • Andesite primary rock flour
  • Betonite
  • Algae lime
  • Dolomite lime
  • Plant pellets
  • Naturpur semolina
  • Horn meal
  • Horn shavings
  • Soft earth raw phosphates
  • Sulphur granules

  • N: 2,57 %
  • P: 1,1 %
  • K: 1,29 %
  • Ca: 5,47 %
  • Mg: 2,11 %
  • S: 0,88 %
  • SiO2: 13,1 %
  • Tonerde: 1,3 %
  • Fe: 1,06 %
  • Na: 0,39 %


Option 2
True soil Veg - 1kg/10l soil - 10kg=119€ (0,476€/l)

Kelp Meal - Brown Algae Powder
Neem Cake
DIABAS Primary Rock Flour
Andesite Primary Rock Flour
Betonite
Algae Lime
Dolomite Lime
Plant Pellets
Naturpur Semolina
Soft Earth Rock Phosphates
Sulphur Granules


N: 1,88 %
P: 1,2 %
K: 1,02 %
Ca: 6,09 %
Mg: 2,05 %
S: 0,83 %
SiO2: 14,59 %
Tonerde: 1,18 %
Fe: 1,18 %
Na: 0,48 %


Option 3
Life-Cycle - 200g/10l soil - 5kg=31€ (0,124€/l)

Mealworm Frass
Neem
Premium Seaweed Meal:
Gypsum
Insect Meal
Rock Phosphate
Basalt Rock Dust
Humic and Fulvic Acids

N/P2O5/K2O/+ Mg/Ca - 2 /4.5 /2.4/ + 1/6


Price is also a big difference. I would not say it is expensive in any way but it is a significant price difference.
Option 1 and 2 is from the same company while option 3 is from another company.
They both state to use premium amendments.

What would you choose?
Click to expand...
Personally, I go for the simplest and most effective. 1 part peat, 1 part perlite, 1 part balanced compost, and some Dolomite. Keep some 4-4-4 and some 2-5-3 both on hand for topdressing!

Though I must admit these sativas need something more along the lines of 0-20-11 for topdressing (2 part bone meal, 1 part langbeinite).
 
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Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
GenericEnigma said:
Personally, I go for the simplest and most effective. 1 part peat, 1 part perlite, 1 part balanced compost, and some Dolomite. Keep some 4-4-4 and some 2-5-3 both on hand for topdressing!

Though I must admit these sativas need something more along the lines of 0-20-11 for topdressing (2 part bone meal, 1 part langbeinite).
Click to expand...
I combine my thirds (peat, compost, pumice) and get it tested. Then you know what to amend with instead of throwing the kitchen sink at it blindly.

Science!
 
Medskunk

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
Nice OP! You got me with the bed situation, cant wait to get into it.

Ive grown many plants in 15L pots with the coots recipe but a variable with dried yarrow, comfrey, angelica root, some other root, alfalfa dust and like around 40% perlite and equal parts ewc and sphagnum moss plus on top of that the gk line to be sure :p cause of the pot size. So yeah go for more than 10gals imo

In my latest grows i went with 3x 15gal fabric pots the perlite close to 55% and almost no ewc, 1-2quarts max.. I get no fungus gnats like this ill notice 1 maybe 2 the whole grow.

Hope you get to the bed quickly!! Hahah subbed
 
Last edited:
by2

by2

Active Member
GenericEnigma said:
Personally, I go for the simplest and most effective. 1 part peat, 1 part perlite, 1 part balanced compost, and some Dolomite. Keep some 4-4-4 and some 2-5-3 both on hand for topdressing!

Though I must admit these sativas need something more along the lines of 0-20-11 for topdressing (2 part bone meal, 1 part langbeinite).
Click to expand...
I like it simple. That's why I thought to just continue with some general mineral mix.
I been using living soil for 2 years and still feel like an idiot when it comes to amendments.
So you add the dolomite lime to adjust the PH and add calcium and magnesium and then relay on the nutrient in the compost for all the other macro and micro nutrients?
And just use the 4-4-4 when needed?
 
by2

by2

Active Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I combine my thirds (peat, compost, pumice) and get it tested. Then you know what to amend with instead of throwing the kitchen sink at it blindly.

Science!
Click to expand...
GenericEnigma said:
Hell yeah! I like the Rapitest product. Tests N, P, K, and pH, and is done at home. It's perfect for proper soil!
Click to expand...
I would love to test and amend accordingly but I don't fell smart enough and I don't have that kind of money right now.
 
by2

by2

Active Member
Medskunk said:
Nice OP! You got me with the bed situation, cant wait to get into it.

Ive grown many plants in 15L pots with the coots recipe but a variable with dried yarrow, comfrey, angelica root, some other root, alfalfa dust and like around 40% perlite and equal parts ewc and sphagnum moss plus on top of that the gk line to be sure :p cause of the pot size. So yeah go for more than 10gals imo

In my latest grows i went with 3x 15gal fabric pots the perlite close to 55% and almost no ewc, 1-2quarts max.. I get no fungus gnats like this ill notice 1 maybe 2 the whole grow.

Hope you get to the bed quickly!! Hahah subbed
Click to expand...
I would love a Bed as well but now is not the time for me unfortunately, I will stick with the 20 gallons. I will just add 2 more so I can have some rotation.
40-55% perlite sound like a lot. How do you manage to keep up watering?
Only had some fungus gnats once and solved it with some nematodes. I guess that there still might be some in the soil that keep the gnats away.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
I like it simple. That's why I thought to just continue with some general mineral mix.
I been using living soil for 2 years and still feel like an idiot when it comes to amendments.
So you add the dolomite lime to adjust the PH and add calcium and magnesium and then relay on the nutrient in the compost for all the other macro and micro nutrients?
And just use the 4-4-4 when needed?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's how I've been running hybrids lately.

You're right about the compost! It's homemade and very high in nitrogen, so I balance it with bone meal and langbeinite. It has actual dirt for micros and is full of bugs.

I often add some kind of organics when I fill pots - like dried leaves or alfalfa. That's mostly to feed the soil and isn't entirely necessary for my setup.

Should you feel daring: Rapitest, if you can get it, is under $10 in the States and comes with instructions (including how much, and of what, to add based on results).
 
Medskunk

Medskunk

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
I would love a Bed as well but now is not the time for me unfortunately, I will stick with the 20 gallons. I will just add 2 more so I can have some rotation.
40-55% perlite sound like a lot. How do you manage to keep up watering?
Only had some fungus gnats once and solved it with some nematodes. I guess that there still might be some in the soil that keep the gnats away.
Click to expand...
Bed can wait then, 20gals is proper good!

I checked my book and the perlite is more like 60% actually. Found out through the grows that sphagnum holds a lot of water so i avoided watering issues by adding more perlite, while with the classic 1/3 equal parts i watered once every 2 weeks, now i water once a week 3lt per pot and every other week around 4,5lt.
The temps are 27-28C daytime and 22-24C at night with rh around 50-70% in veg.
Even now they re 40 days in flower, temps 26-27C and the rh 35- 40% and its the same watering schedule.
 
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