experienced organic growers advice needed

first off my set up:

5x5 tent
600w hps/mh conversion bulb with AC reflector 18 on 6 off
450cfm vortex fan pulls air thru carbon filter across light then out of tent
5 gallon roots soil bags
roots oganic soil
General Organics line of nutes
small 12'' fan circulating air at about soil level
temps durring the day are about 70-75 at night 60-65
RH durring the day are about 40-50% and at night sometimes as high as 70%

ok now that you know a little about my set up id like to mention the problems I have been having, first off I transplanted from 3/4 gallon root maker pots to 5 gallon soil bags 1 week ago. before that i noticed some twisting/drooping of the leafs which i thought was an over watering issure, after letting plants dry out for 3-4 days then giving light watering with cal/mag and bioroot not much change. I have been adjusting the PH of nutrient water mixture from 5.14 to about 6.8 with baking soda just the past 2 waterings after i realized how low it was. the tops of 3 of the taller plants are a much lighter green than the rest of plant and are twisting and curling, the lower fan leafs have dark spots on them which almost turn black after a few days which i have trimmed off. the shorter plants which i did some lst on are showing the same discolorations on lower leafs but top growth does not appear as yellowed or twisted as the taller plants but the leafs are all generally more yellow than before with dark green veins.



I tried to include as much info as possible any help is really appreciated, trying to flower in a week or 2 but need to get this corrected. Ill post some pictures shortly

What I think is going on here is a combination of issues stemming from an excess of Potassium and bicarbonates. Perhaps a touch too much nitrogen too.

If the root system isn't flourishing the Phosphate levels might be a touch too low as well.

Of all the things though, magnesium is what your plant is really aching for.

What I suggest you do is flush the soil to remove this build up of Potassium and Sodium which is impacting the uptake of Mg. Once flushed, you should probably drop in a little nutrition. Focus on trying to get as balanced as possible NPK Ca, and Mg. I'm talking like a 1-1-1 with 1% Ca and 1%Mg. Not sure what your nutrient line levels are, but if you can get a gentle feeding in with some Epsom Salts (about 1/2 tsp. per gallon) after the flush that will help fix your issue.

I really suggest you find another product to up your pH. Sodium Bicarbonate is a recipe for disaster with long term use in soil. I try to avoid Bicarbonates as much as possible.

What I use to dial my pH down is TechnaFlora pH down Nitric Acid. The Nitric acid is a lot more stable than phosphoric acid. For pH up (which is what you need) I use a combination of Dyna-Gro ProTekt Potassium Silicate, and Canna Rhizotonic. I'm usually dialing my pH down, but just a ml of the Potassium Silicate per gallon makes a huge difference so I save it for the end just in case I need it, because I could over do it with the stuff easily.

It's only a few $$, I really suggest you replace the Baking Soda with the ProTekt.

I second the flush. ease back into the feeding slowly.

thanks for the advice, I totally agree with you on not using baking soda more or less a temporary fix bc they were deperately dry and ph was so wacked.

As far as flushing goes, just flush with distilled water? how much per plant ? i understand the concept i just feel the soil bags dont allow the water to run out of the bottom as well as say a plastic container.

I truly appreciate the indepth answers you gave

Im using the General Organics Nute line, its my first time with these nutes and soil and are much different than what used in the past

heres a picutr i found on another fourm

Good info ^^^^^ Snow

It does look like a mag dif the problem I have with treating for one element is that the inter-dependencies of the elements can cause it to look like one thing when in fact it's another. For example mag needs nitrogen to be mobile in the plant, often a lack of nitrogen will cause a mag lock up.

In my experience I have found that a shot of cal-mag will clear that up quick. Use 1/2 what they recommend on the lable. Careful with this as too much is not good for the plant. You can tell as the plant gets a deep dark green.

This is what I would do, flush your plants with 25% nutrients till you get good run off. Using just water will not do the job as explained above you need certain elements to allow other elements to become mobile. If you have a 5 gal pot use 8 gal to flush. Return to feeding. You will need to feed more or keep the cal-mag as part of the feeding (1/4 recommended)

I also think your light is too close.

Thanks again for the advice, im going to flush tomorrow morning first thing with 25% stregnth nutrients with 50% of recomended cal/mag 8 gallons per plant, correct?

Then once soil has dried out for a few days then go back to feeding at 50% recomended nutes and 25% of recomended cal/mag, correct?

Thanks again for your help and opinions

JJSP420 said:

Thanks again for the advice, im going to flush tomorrow morning first thing with 25% stregnth nutrients with 50% of recomended cal/mag 8 gallons per plant, correct? Right, the key here is to have good run-off.

Then once soil has dried out for a few days then go back to feeding YES at 50% recomended nutes, No I think this is causing some of your issues, I would give them 75% of recomended and 25% of recomended cal/mag, correct?)

Thanks again for your help and opinions

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No problem and welcome to the site.

ok so I just began the flushing process, the PH of just my water is 7.9 water with 25% strength nutes 6.7 and run off is between 6.1 and 6.2
Any comments or concerns?

it all looks good, you will see a change in 3 to 5 days.

woodsmaneh! said:

it all looks good, you will see a change in 3 to 5 days.

Click to expand...

I flushed 3 out of 6 the 3 that looked the worst, the run off varried from 6.2 - 5.9

do you recoment trying to ammend PH levels once they have dried out and if so what method etc would you use?

JJSP420 said:

I flushed 3 out of 6 the 3 that looked the worst, the run off varried from 6.2 - 5.9 (nothing wrong with your readings)

do you recoment trying to ammend PH levels once they have dried out and if so what method etc would you use? No I don't recommend it.

Click to expand...

I fill my reservoir with water than Ph to 6.5/7.0 than add my nutrients just before I feed them. I check the Ph just to make sure it's in range than water the plants. After you do this a few times you get to know what ph it will be at after adding so you don't need to do it all the time. I spot check every month as my well water changes a bit every season.

Everything has already perked right up, I looked back in the tent 4 hours after flushing and expected to see wilting plants but the majority of the leafs have perked up. Is there a chance that some of the signs i was getting were caused by underwatering? I dont think so but I'd like to hear some opinions.

Thanks