Extraction methods. Need help and explanations.

Hi guys.

I just had a quite interesting conversation with a hemp producer. Please give me your thoughts!

First, when I asked for higher cannabinoid concentration hemp, to be able to make higher concentration oil, he refereed me to PRESSING the oil! Putting it back in the boiler, and doing it over and over again.
Well.. That was a nice approach for better yield, but I cannot see how this could gain cannabinoid percentage?
Can anyone explain what he meant? -Here is a pic of his press he sent me:



Nice setup! Just throw in the hot oil with the weed! Probably just misunderstood each-other about percentage though?...

But the interesting part. He asked me:
WHY DO YOU WANT TO MAKE OIL? -WHY DON'T YOU JUST EAT THE CANNABIS AS IS??..

Just try! You'll be surprised he said! -As you are concerned about entourage, I'll promise you this is not a joke!!...
Grind it, put it in capsules, and THEN decarb the capsules. -You'll keep ALL terps inside the capsules! -Just keep some foil above so you don't burn them from the oven heating elements...
The capsules stand the heat perfectly well, they just get a little dry on the outside, and all the terps will suck into the gelatine!...

What do you think?
I know you guys have told me you are eating your keif or hash, but the buds??...
What about all this talk about getting it right in your bloodstream?
And metabolism throwing most of the CBD content out the drain?....

Any thoughts?

--

In the meantime, I have been doing MCT oil with Lecithin, and I am getting amazing results!
Now I have diluted all down to 5% THC with the "Royal Domina Landrace" I have, and still only need a few drops of the stuff!
Not to mention how little is needed for skin application to take effect!

• My lady has got rid of nearly all her nerve damage pain and cramps from cancer treatment/operations I have mentioned before!
• Myself can sure confirm much less joint pains! And for a few days now I have not been using my high bloodpressure pharma, and measured quite a drop in blood-pressure an hour or two after intake or skin application! (It does rice a bit at first)
• My 30 yo. son with destroyed knees has been pain-free and sleeping as a child!
• The paralysed traffic victim he work for, have had a pain-free spasm-free night for the first time in a year and are overwilmed!!

This is SO bloody interesting stuff!!!

It is just a shame it is SO difficult to get any conclusive answers how to approach...
As I said, more and more questions appear as more I am learning...

/Orre

I can explain what he meant about pressing the oil. When you make coco oil extract the left over weed will not separate from the oil in boiling water (at least I can’t get it to). If you just have weed and water the weed will sink eventually but the coco oil messes that up. So you use two bowls, or a potato ricer, etc to squeeze the remaining oil out of the weed. Yield goes up, not potency.

To make the potency go up he puts the oil back in the boiler, just as he said, but “with more cannabis”. Remember from earlier in the thread the cannabinoids are miscible in oils? You can make it as strong as you want, just use more cannabis.

I will report back on the caps, it would be neat to do kief like that it would decarb into hash inside the capsule. Probably what I will try.

Thanks @Freedom seed I am glad you bother to educate me!


Yes it sounds really interesting with the capsules! -He was quite harsh in his word use about all b-s info that is spread...
I wonder how all testimonials with diesel-boiling ugliness would have sounded if all that people had tried other ways?...

I immediately thought of you and the kief! (Btw. he is also selling hemp trichomes!...)
Really nice info about decarbing the capsules! I am glad to hear you also found that interesting!
But I can also see a text on their site talking about decarbing plant-material for 2-3 hours at ~110°C!?... That sounds totally crazy from what I have learned so far!? I do not know why CBD-hemp should be treated different from THC? -You know about this?..

He also have a "Santhica 70" 100% THC free! -Didn't know that was possible?... -Nearly only with CBGa/CBG.
Otherwise it's mostly CBD dominant strains with some different terpene profiles.
Nice pure products all at affordable prices and all with lab-tests!
I have to take a 700km. drive cross the border to get hold of this, but thinking of taking that ride tomorrow. -I am lacking CBD in my experiments.

I am getting more and more convinced that it might not be necessary to use such high THC concentration!
As I said I have been diluting by half here several times now with surprisingly high (subjective) effect!
So getting a higher part of firstly CBD and CBG in the mix will be really interesting!

It surprises me to read how many that is actually smoking hemp!! -Didn't know about that either...

Btw. I read about your "whole body lubricate" experience @Freedom seed! Ha ha ha... Had a good laugh there mate!

/Orre

-Also please chime in about CBGa decarboxylation!

The decarboxylation follows a graph, less temp = more time. I have read it takes more time/temp to decarb cbd as compared to thc, which may be the reason.

I wish they would open up Canada to unrestricted hemp growing. If the guy has shelled, split seeds I highly recommend them. If you made an extract with 1:1 cbd hemp:good bud I bet you enjoy it.

The skin was a major key to moving forward for me. After that I could eat any amount.

Yes I was also thinking 1:1 - CBD:THC.
Probably adding CBG to the mix!

For seed I assume you are talking about e.g. adding to your breakfast, salad and stuff?
I understand they are extremely rich in protein and polyunsaturated fatty acids.

-Did you know that feeding cattle with hemp, you do not need to add antibiotics for them to be able to digest. -Like with e.g. corn!...

Yes I have listened to your recommendations of skin application! -Find it to be a very effective way to get it into your body!
It has made me planning on doing products specially for skin application!

But do you mean this single -whole-body-smearing-session was a turn-over experience?

/Orre

It was a turning point for sure. I swear a few hours after (as I was coming down) I could feel my heart pounding in my gut and all my organs woke up and started talking to each other. I tasted bile for the first time in months. If the endocannabinoid system is our bodies communication system with our organs and the skin is our largest organ...

I’m certainly not recommending to just smear it on, be careful it can hit very fast and hard. It is possible to “green out.”

I eat the seeds by the handful or mixed with oats, soup, gravy. They taste great. Has a cleansing effect on the gut as well. If I could grow hemp without a license/inspectors I’d fill a field.

fragileassassin said:

The easiest and safest ways to do it at home would to be use a high proof alcohol like everclear and make an ingestible extract like the RSO. If you use alcohol, eat it or take it as a pill dont smoke it.
Or
Using a heated press to make rosin would be your go to for a smokable extraction.
Or
If you want to cook with it and make edibles you can do oil extractions with stuff like coconut oil, butter, or olive oil like you said. I usually go for the coconut oil. This is as simple as hearing the flower and oil mixture at the proper temperature for the right amount of time. I have done this method with vegetable glycerin to use to make normal vape juice. It was a royal pain, but it worked. They make machines and special pots you can use on the stove that will make oil/butter extractions very straight forward.

Anything that isnt going to be smoked, should be decarbed before making the extraction. Heat is a necessary evil. You will burn some off yes, though if you do it properly it is minimal, but if you dont decarb you wont get the full effect of your extracts if you dont heat them or bake with them after.

Most of the solvent methods need special equipment like vacuum pumps and are illegal to do at home in some places. In my state, it is illegal to make extracts at home with ANY flammable solvent. Alcohol is even a flammable solvent so I technically wouldn't even be allowed to make rso at home.

I built a little diy heat press out of a $40 arbor press and a hair straightener that worked quite well. You can make a pretty nice hydraulic heated press for a few hundred dollars.

Click to expand...

I use quiso (green dragon) and it works well for me. in the past I have decarbed at 250 degrees for 27 minutes then placed the decarbed ground flower in gel caps and swallowed the gel cap. no solvents used and a 00 gel cap holds about 0.3 grams of ground flower. this gets around your solvent problem and is easy and fast

mauricem00 said:

I use quiso (green dragon) and it works well for me. in the past I have decarbed at 250 degrees for 27 minutes then placed the decarbed ground flower in gel caps and swallowed the gel cap. no solvents used and a 00 gel cap holds about 0.3 grams of ground flower. this gets around your solvent problem and is easy and fast

Click to expand...

Ingested marijuana doesnt really do anything for me. I recently reinforced this with some pretty potent edibles.

@Freedom seed -I like your inputs!

@mauricem00 I don't know "green dragon", but I guess you mean Quick Wash with ISOpropyl-alcohol?
I have no doubt this is very effective! -Reading it yields nearly as good as Butan wash!
Did a small test myself with good luck. Didn't boil though, just let the ISO evaporate under a fan.
I recognize this and similar approaches with solvents as very effective! -I have read loads of testimonials about that!

But I have a good feeling about oil! I have definitely not experience enough to make any assertions! But so far it seems the infused oil somehow distributes very well, and seems to lower the "concentration need" so to speak...
I have NO idea if this is fact or fiction, or if it would apply to more severe illness?... But I definitely find it very exciting!
-And now when I even savvy how to rise concentration! Wow!

The idea of eating the plant "as is" is totally unknown territory for me though!
As I said it kind of throw some other stuff I have learned out the window though.. -As CBD assimilation?...

@fragileassassin Thank you for input!
I believe all medical cannabis experiences are also highly personal! So the more testimonials, the better it is!


A thought about capsules with grinded weed and yield...
I read @mauricem00 isn't the only one putting 0.3g. in a capsule, and I guess we are talking about maybe 3 capsules a day? -If so, that is about 1g. a day.
With the ~16% THC "Roylal Domina" I have tried out now, I have made a close to 1:1 outcome with 10g. in 100ml. oil! (Meaning ~16% THC concentration in 100ml. oil) And I found I can more or less just divide it. E.g. 150ml. = ~10%, and 300ml. = ~5%.
Some loss with straining, and some margin of error to consider. And of course the personal reference. But still!!...
-I mean, we get lightly stoned with 5 DROPS of the 15% oil!!??...

Of course this is only THC measurements and a highly subjective feeling, but also the health experiences mentioned in #81 above, -THIS is the amounts I am talking about! -3-5 drops!!...
To use the 15% oil as reference, that equals about 200 drops per gram!!.....
Bloody interesting isn't it!

/Orre

orre said:

@Freedom seed -I like your inputs!

@mauricem00 I don't know "green dragon", but I guess you mean Quick Wash with ISOpropyl-alcohol?
I have no doubt this is very effective! -Reading it yields nearly as good as Butan wash!
Did a small test myself with good luck. Didn't boil though, just let the ISO evaporate under a fan.
I recognize this and similar approaches with solvents as very effective! -I have read loads of testimonials about that!

But I have a good feeling about oil! I have definitely not experience enough to make any assertions! But so far it seems the infused oil somehow distributes very well, and seems to lower the "concentration need" so to speak...
I have NO idea if this is fact or fiction, or if it would apply to more severe illness?... But I definitely find it very exciting!
-And now when I even savvy how to rise concentration! Wow!

The idea of eating the plant "as is" is totally unknown territory for me though!
As I said it kind of throw some other stuff I have learned out the window though.. -As CBD assimilation?...

@fragileassassin Thank you for input!
I believe all medical cannabis experiences are also highly personal! So the more testimonials, the better it is!


A thought about capsules with grinded weed and yield...
I read @mauricem00 isn't the only one putting 0.3g. in a capsule, and I guess we are talking about maybe 3 capsules a day? -If so, that is about 1g. a day.
With the ~16% THC "Roylal Domina" I have tried out now, I have made a close to 1:1 outcome with 10g. in 100ml. oil! (Meaning ~16% THC concentration in 100ml. oil) And I found I can more or less just divide it. E.g. 150ml. = ~10%, and 300ml. = ~5%.
Some loss with straining, and some margin of error to consider. And of course the personal reference. But still!!...
-I mean, we get lightly stoned with 5 DROPS of the 15% oil!!??...

Of course this is only THC measurements and a highly subjective feeling, but also the health experiences mentioned in #81 above, -THIS is the amounts I am talking about! -3-5 drops!!...
To use the 15% oil as reference, that equals about 200 drops per gram!!.....
Bloody interesting isn't it!

/Orre

Click to expand...

green dragon is made from everclear which is not toxic.isopropyl alcohol is toxic and is usually evaporated off to make wax. use grain alcohol like everclear for edible tinctures. use iso when the alcohol is going to be evaporated off

Hi guys!

After some more experimenting, I have to dismiss my statements about THC percentage in the oil.
Turns out I have used the wrong settings with the tCheck device...
Seems that old posts cannot be edited either. I apologize for the inconvenience!

The recipe of extracting 100g. dry buds in 1l. of oil seem to result in about 15% of the original THC content of the plant.
E.g. 100 gram Royal Domina I measured to 16% THC, will result in 1 litre oil with ca. 2.4% THC.
(minus 10-15% loss of oil = a total of about 8.5-9 dl. oil)

The mathematics in the calculations still applies of course.

Also. Trying to increase the percentage by using less oil just seem to work to a certain degree without loosing yield...
Meaning I CAN fit about twice the amount of plant material as above (e.g. 100g. into 0.5l. oil), maybe even a bit more, but then it will most lightly reduce the yield, and it will NOT be twice the the THC percentage (e.g. 4.8%). Instead possibly something like 4-4.5%. Also the percentage loss of oil will be bigger..
On the other hand, if I do it the other way around, e.g. 100g. in 1.5l. of oil, the THC percentage yield might be a tiny bit higher. -When that is said, the 100g to 1l. recipe seems to be quite a "sweet spot"!
(I haven't tested, but it should equal about 400g. fresh plant to 1l. oil)

I have also tried to increase the cannabinoid percentage by using the same oil with new plant material, and yes of course it works!
But this is also dependent in a really good separation of plant material from the oil.
I have managed to boil 3x50g. in 0.5l. (That is extracting 50g. in 0.5l. oil, straining it, putting in new 50g. straining it, and new 50g. and straining).
For the 3:d round I had to add a dl. or so with new oil, because I lost so much in the process it wouldn't cover the cannabis...
It would probably have been better if I had used a hydraulic press like the one i pictured in an earlier post. And it also might have been better If I had not used equal amount of cannabis for each boil. E.g. instead used 70g. first round, 50g. second, and 30g. for the 3'd round?... I'll try that next time.
The cannabinoid percentage yield wasn't too bad though! -Nearly tripled it! But the total amount of resulting oil wasn't too good!.. (don't remember right now)

I do not know, but is it possible that some oil does "evaporate" in the process?
This test with 3x50g. was with hemp that I wanted to gain CBD from, so I used really long time though! (That is about 8-10 hours for each round plus heating/chilling plus freezing in between)

With marijuana I have done smaller batches of e.g. 10g. to 1dl. @2 hours @ca.110°C plus another 2 hours heating/chilling plus freezing plus heating and straining. This has given me the best results both with THC percentage and total amount of finished oil (about 88ml out of 100)
I have also tried to use longer time, but then THC percentage went down a bit. I do not know if there is some oxidation involved in overdoing?
(In that matter I have understood that the old decarb-table everyone knows about is a myth when it comes to "loosing THC to CBN when overdoing". -That kind of chemical process just does not occur that fast, if you don't decarb on a hot plate or something...)

I still do not know the optimal numbers of decarboxylation in oil. That would have been awesome to know about!
The only actual lab test numbers I have found is from that "Nova" decarb mug, but they have only used their own "one cycle decarboxylation" before testing, and that is only about 60-75 minutes at 103°C. so it is not either long enouth or hot enough...
I have tried decarbing in the oven before adding to the oil, but I cannot "feel" any difference, other then loosing all terpenoids in the kitchen...
I have also done it dry in the crack-pot before adding oil, ant that seem to work fine! But as I am happy to keep a certain percentage of all the "acid cannabinoids" (e.g. THCa/CBDa) I think I will just keep doing it WITHIN the oil! -Feels like I am keeping a lot more of all the goodies that way...

Also still missing the optimal time and heat for CBDa and CBGa decarboxylation!
For CBD adding about 50% longer time then for THC seems to be about right?
For CBG keeping it below about 75°C and using even longer time might be correct?

I have also been cooking all kind of spices!
Both fresh and dry spices from the shop letting it simmer in oil in the crock-pot for days, straining it, and adding to the cannabis-oil to boost terpenoid levels!
I have also been adding terpenoids in the form of essential oils. Partly to boost the mix, and partly to add flavour.
With this I have also been doing salve with bees-wax that is actually a really amazing way of taking cannabis!! (Thank you for pointing me that way @Freedom seed !
The last batch was with only about 1% THC, 0.5% CBD and 0.5% CBG, and still doing wonders!! Both as a pain-killer, skin treatment, and general intake in the body!...
I can just recommend you all to try the topical way!!
Just wish I had some really high CBD strains to play with, and I am certain I could decrease THC levels even more for certain conditions!...

Anyway.
That is my findings so far...

Keep safe and stay at home folks!
Peace and Love!
/Orre