Fan leaves

I've done all the research I need to do.

Look don't listen to any of us just do what you think is the best, but if you do decide to prune it do go overboard. They do need leaves and I never said they didn't but removing some to let light penetrate the lower branches has never let me down.

Don't go overboard

Ok last time you don't need light to penetrate your lower bud sites as your bud does not need direct light. Your leaves need the light ! Your leaves produce the bud. You didn't get it last time. Leaves are good ! Don't take them off ! Please do some research before advocating this process and giving false information.

doujadaze said:

Ok last time you don't need light to penetrate your lower bud sites as your bud does not need direct light. Your leaves need the light ! Your leaves produce the bud. You didn't get it last time. Leaves are good ! Don't take them off ! Please do some research before advocating this process and giving false information.

Click to expand...

I tend to disagree with that to a point. The budsites do need light. Have you ever noticed that when a bud is covered it will get a real light pale green? But if you uncover it with in a few dys the bud darkens up? Imo it's ok to trim a few leaves, but you're usually better off with selective tuck n roll. You tuck and roll them babies out of the way. lol

ThorGanjason said:

Yeah, just think of fan leaves as the solar panels. If you want your plant to use the light better, will taking the solar panels off help that?

Click to expand...

If they are broken or shorting out the system...yes...just like an older mature leaf that has past its prime using energy instead of producing.

So what I have always done is what is called cheater topping or cutting, youtube it ha. So anyways you grab a bud from the bottom and pull up all the fan leaves and then they are all bunched at the top then cut about half way down leaving all the big fan leaves cut in half so it will let more light get in but also keep leaves to draw up nutes and check for problems.


http://medicalmarijuanamix.blogspot.com/ Check it out a blog about general marijuana culture

Look here buddy your word ain't the end all be all. You do some research different strains respond to different things in different parts of the country so what works for me may not work for you. So for the last time this works for me. If it doesn't for you don't try to tell me I'm wrong when I know I'm not, and further more how do you know you haven't been misinformed. I'm speaking from experience and you are taking someone's word for it.

The reason for removing them was a cal/mag deficiency damaged most of the fan leaves and were necrotizing! Thanks for all the info./advice! Didn't realize this was a topic of dispute yet the concensus is to leave them on and will during next cycle!

^ dont get me wrong if there dead and necrotic and doing no good then yes, take them off. Everything else that is green and healthy leave them on. And your right it seems no can agree on this topic. Even though there is science to back it up. Strange huh. There are to many people advocating pruning of the leaves. There are some that says it helps when done right and at the right times but no one can seem to agree when and how much. I myself have not seen any evidence that this benefits my plants and no one seems to have any. I see way to people that expect there leaves to turn yellow during flowering as well. Why? Do you let any of your other plants leaves turn yellow? vegetables fruit citrus ? NO so why MJ. It this "weed" so special you have to do all these crazy things for it to grow. Too many people say this is a good thing and is whats supposed to happen. NO its not. Most the time is cause these snake oils and cannabis specific nutes have to muck P and K and not enough N to support foliage. I don't get it. Guess it bugs me but what are you gonna do. Try and help those that seem open to listening. Be careful what you read and what you follow on these forums. 75 % is bull shit. Ex : removing fan leaves. Flushing. But there is also a lot of great information on here as well. Hope it helps Good luck

Here is an article written in urban garden magazine.

http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2009/12/the-sweet-zone-pruning-indoor-plants-for-larger-yields

This is a shot of my trimming during the stretch of 12/12.


Start of 12/12 before trimming



After trimming


Same plant after 1 week of 12/12.



Here it is after 21 days of 12/12. Its slightly to the left in the pic.



IMO its more for me about having plant matter within the penetration power of the light.





J

When you grow larger plants it is useful to thin them out somewhat, concentrate the growth on the thicker steams
an even spread of light across the canopy will produce more cola than having the light blocked by too many fan leaves
this is only really a problem when you have plants growing very close together, if plants have free space around them
i see very little reason to remove leaves it is very easy to open the plant up so that it can get even light

i do not treat all plants the same, i wouldn't remove leaves from small pure indica type plants
these plants need all the leaves they have as they don't make many, the leaves they do make are so thick dark green they must be able to do the same work as many sativa leaves
removing these giant indica leaves from these plants can cause the cola to grow back more leafy anyway

larger skunk and sativa dom hybrids respond best to leaf removal, never seen any negative effects, these things spit out paper thin leaves daily

the leaves that grow from each cola will feed that cola, some can be removed, if possible, i would tuck them out the way
rather than remove them, although some need to be removed to create an even air flow through the plants
you will find many SOG and screen growers remove some leaves too

i think the only real benefit is to give the plants better airflow, as i said, if the plants had space all around them, you could bend them into position
and would not need to remove any leaf only the sick or dead ones , if your grow space is more of a jungle, it is best to tend to it, and keep it in check

peace

Finally someone with an actual article. All though its not backed by a university or backed by a non partisan party still nice to see. Curious on the yield of those plants. per plant. By chance have you done a side by side with clones with pruning and without? Would like to see if so. As for the article the "sweet zone" that this guy talks about, he dosnt have me sold. Of course there is a point to were your plants are getting to much light or not enough. Also called the light saturation point which he does not mention. Hence getting a light meter. And even so if your so worried about light not reaching your bud sites why not adding a few Cfl or flours near the bottom? Just does not make sense to say forget them and prune them off. This pruining lower growth so you fit all this in this "sweet zone" is strange. Why not just let the plants grow without pruning and without stressing them out? if need be when the time comes and your lower buds are not done yet then do a double harvest. Wouldn't this mean more bud anyway? and isnt this the point? Its science that more leave = more bud. Remember the light does not produce the bud the leaves do. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying im 100 % right and only do what i say. Just looking for more information cause that was not enough. WHY does pruning work? Is it for more "energy" that the plant will have for bud growth? That puzzles me cause the more energy would mean more leaves...Im curious to this whole pruning idea as i would never do it to my vegetables or fruits. Would you? Do you do it because your inside? PLants need Like i said what ever makes you happy. They are your plants so can do whatever you like to them. Thats the great part about it. Thanks for the info and pics. looks tasty either way Just want the best information out there. Anyone else with experience not just thoughts would love to know.

why do you just assume that removing some growth will stress a plant out
how do you measure this stress you speak of ?

it is my experience that my plants grow vigorously genetics being the deciding factor , if i remove growth they do not slow down, what is this stress you speak of ?

But if you remove growth, wont it just grow back? So the plant is putting more "energy" into growing back those fan leaves you just pruned. When in fact those fan these could have been producing the whole time. I guess by stress i meant more along the lines of holding your plant back from its full potential? Or stunting its growth even if its minor, since now it has to reproduce those leaves. I guess there is no "real" way to measure this. Just science to me. i'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Do you remove growth on any other plant material? Would you remove material if you were outside? I had some good question for avid pruners that care to share there experience. Thanks for yours. As you said genetics plays a role i have seen some pretty bushy trees that looks like it could benefit from your pruning techniques for better air circulation. But most plants that i have seen if not needed why do it? I guess thats my question. What real benefit does it have.

i don't normally remove so many leaves, but this strain liked it
is an old grow from 2009 sweet tooth













peace

doujadaze said:

But if you remove growth, wont it just grow back? So the plant is putting more "energy" into growing back those fan leaves you just pruned. When in fact those fan these could have been producing the whole time. I guess by stress i meant more along the lines of holding your plant back from its full potential? Or stunting its growth even if its minor, since now it has to reproduce those leaves. I guess there is no "real" way to measure this. Just science to me. i'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Do you remove growth on any other plant material? Would you remove material if you were outside? I had some good question for avid pruners that care to share there experience. Thanks for yours. As you said genetics plays a role i have seen some pretty bushy trees that looks like it could benefit from your pruning techniques for better air circulation. But most plants that i have seen if not needed why do it? I guess thats my question. What real benefit does it have.

Click to expand...

i see your point, and i think on smaller plants this may come more into effect, if a plant only has a few leaves then removing them seems silly
why would you need to remove leaves or any growth from a small plant, you would want to keep as much as you can to max the yield
but what if your plant produces so much growth so fast that you can select what growth to keep

this is something you would see for yourself if you were to put a plant through re-jev or re-veg
when it starts to re-veg from all the buds you leave on it, it grows crazy wild , spitting out shoots allover the place
if you did not practice thinning out on such a plant you would end up with a vine like mess and little cola
i do understand your reasoning , it is logical, however in practice, plants produce leaves so fast they can grow them almost as quick as you can pick them on large plants
they can grow them back in a few days, now can you prove that this exact energy that would be used to grow those leaves back, would of been used for something else
or that it slowed the plant down in its maturity ? are you assuming that a plant always uses 100% of its energy and there is none in reserve ?
i am not saying it will not have an effect, but the effect virtually go unnoticed on fast growing vigorous plants, you do not have to worry about them slowing down
its planing how to cope with them when they become too big and grow too fast that is more of an issue for me
that is why i do not put much faith in this stress idea

You do have some good points. As far as the re veg i have been waiting to try this out myself. Will be interesting to see as i have not experimented in this yet. As far as the plant using 100% of its energy at all times is pretty hard to say. Another thing you can not really measure. But if your leaves or not dead and necrotic than you can assume your leaves are at work at all leaves producing. No you can't measure how much of that leaves " energy " was lost or how small it was or how important to the plant it was. But i do know that leaf was at work and once its gone the plant will try to grow it back. Holding it back. How much i dont know. And like you said on a tree like that how much is really lost? No way to tell if really any. And hard to believe that a few leaves would be major problem on a bush. As with outdoor this would happen. ( pest, environment conditions) Are you pure indoor or experimented in outdoor at all? By the way nice grow looks pretty tasty and keep em pretty green. On plants that are not bushes though I'm with you Why would you need to remove them. I guess what bothers me if those who thinks even on smaller plants that pruning off those fan leaves results in bigger growth above. When they barley have fan leaves in the first place. Or letting them yellow. Thanks for your imput What was your average yield per plant if you remember?

in apple orchards we prune to make best use of the light that the plant receives. we direct the energy into fewer but stronger fruits with larger size and eye appeal. its done with fruit bearing trees and in arboriculture...the care of trees. and its done in landscaping also. I strongly believe in pruning to get the best out of my plants. no matter what i'm growing and i think my opinion is shared by many professionals in the plant business.

my yields vary between plants hugely, i do a fair amount of seed runs with some clones running alongside too
with seeds genetics comes into play much more, the vigor of seeds smashes clones out of the water
once the seeds get into 5 weeks of veg if the genetics permits it, plants can become huge, i have yielded many plants indoor over 1lb
but on the same run have much smaller plants yielding only 2-3 oz
clones can get big too but i tend to flower clones much sooner , although sometimes i do grow them large

some folk say removing leaves can provoke the plant into some kind of overdrive or accelerated growth, this is not something i have tested
it is not something that seems logical to me on the face of it, as these folk strip plants bare when they are tiny, this is completely different to what i do
but maybe there is some logic to it ?, i do recall something called halo, this product claims that it stimulates the plant into a response that it would
normally produce when under attack by infection, bullshit ? lol, anyway http://www.halo-harpin.com/en/how.html
so perhaps it is possible to stress the plant the right way ? to cause faster growth, does the plant have a reserve pool of energy it can use when under attack ?

start of grow for seedlings around 4-5 weeks ago


where i am at now






These are the plants i have at the moment, i wouldnt dream of picking any leaves of those little kush plants
they are only 2ft they make huge leaves that are thick like a rubber plant lol i want to sink my thumbnail into them
they are lovely

the large bush to the right is kush too, but much bigger plants, i have removed a few leaves from it, but not to benefit it, it was blocking the little ones next to it lol
it is growing quite open i have not really removed any leaves, but have removed lower growth it is 5ft tall 4ft wide and 3.5ft deep
it has lots of vigor, i will remove growth from it as it grows, the stringy growth that forms in the middle and lower growth that is not thick and strong
and will be shaded i will remove