Fascism and the Republican Party

BudmanTX said:
Honestly if you wanna put blame on something, let start with they're country of origin, then lets go to the cartels, and the people tell them they can come, then finally you really wanna place blame, lets go to the coyotes that tell the migrant they can cross anywhere.....please keep in mind most migrants can't swim so they get caught by the river itself...
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If we're going to look at actual causes, let's be clear that the vast majority of refugees around the world, including those attempting to enter the United States, are displaced by or running from acts of war or colonialism in their home countries. In both of those situations, by far the worst actor is the United States. Viewed in that light- the one of ultimate causes- America's "illegal immigrant" problem is self inflicted.

Of course you won't get a MAGA type to listen to that.
 
Lucky Luke said:
If someone is praying in public it should not be classed as evangelising. They can be mutually exclusive- as they should be.
People should have the right to do as they please in a public space within reason. Its their public space to.
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Fogdog said:
I 100% agree that capital punishment should not be on the books. My reasons are a little different than yours but we are at the same place so I'm glad we agree that state sponsored murder should not be allowed.

How about we turn this discussion around. Rather than focus on the dead people and whether or not they deserved to die, what about the act of setting that trap? Do you think it's OK for Abbot have put those death traps on the river in the first place? This isn't about the dead people but the idea of laying death traps along the border between Texas and Mexico. Are you OK with what Abbot did?

IMO Abbot made attempting to cross the border capital punishment. Even for those who support the death penalty, the punishment does not fit the crime.
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If it was an unseen barrier I would totally agree with you. Do these people deserve to die, of course not. I do not like what Abbott did but what is Texas to do. I grew up in Texas and they are stretched thin. I am not smart enough to solve the problem. But i do believe there is an answer. I would like to see more judges and case workers to assist the immigrants in their pursuit of the American dream. Most of them are good people who are just trying to do what we all want. A better life for our families.
 
Skillcraft said:
If it was an unseen barrier I would totally agree with you. Do these people deserve to die, of course not. I do not like what Abbott did but what is Texas to do. I grew up in Texas and they are stretched thin. I am not smart enough to solve the problem. But i do believe there is an answer. I would like to see more judges and case workers to assist the immigrants in their pursuit of the American dream. Most of them are good people who are just trying to do what we all want. A better life for our families.
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What problem do those death traps solve? If they don't deserve to die, why would anybody put up death traps like that? You've claimed earlier that I wasn't making any sense but when you did that, you were putting your own words in my mouth. I'm not doing that here, I'm just asking what problem is Abbot solving? I can't find a good data driven explanation, just rhetorical statements by Abbot and Cruz. So, I'm listening but need more than a Ted Cruz story. Where are the data that justifies Abbot's probably illegal river barrier?
 
One thing I found out yesterday is that there is a visa program for seasonal labor, but there is a catch. To obtain the visa, you must have a contract with a domestic employer, obviously before entering.

For migrant farm labor, that is unrealistic. To get a day gig on a farm, step 1 is to show up. Also, in one season a worker will be hired for varying intervals by multiple farms.

You show up and go where the work is, which cannot be predicted even a week in advance.

Result: seasonal farm workers are exposed to undocumented entry into and presence in the country.

What Republican would make it possible for seasonal laborers to work under real conditions? They’re too busy selling the idea to the base that undocumented immigration is an invasion. Odd misuse of a term used to describe a sort of warfare.
 
cannabineer said:
One thing I found out yesterday is that there is a visa program for seasonal labor, but there is a catch. To obtain the visa, you must have a contract with a domestic employer, obviously before entering.

For migrant farm labor, that is unrealistic. To get a day gig on a farm, step 1 is to show up. Also, in one season a worker will be hired for varying intervals by multiple farms.

You show up and go where the work is, which cannot be predicted even a week in advance.

Result: seasonal farm workers are exposed to undocumented entry into and presence in the country.

What Republican would make it possible for seasonal laborers to work under real conditions? They’re too busy selling the idea to the base that undocumented immigration is an invasion. Odd misuse of a term used to describe a sort of warfare.
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We have a seasonal worker working visa here in Tas, mainly for Pacific islanders. Its all done through agencies that specialise in it, they also house them. A mate makes a good quid housing 6 people in a place that if you swung a cat in the cat would die and you would have holes in the very red walls.
Good thing is they earn aussie min wage which is a fortune for them and their families back home. The savvy ones send a HEAP of goods back home for resale. Middle of summer and they are dressed for the arctic lol.
 
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Fogdog said:
What problem do those death traps solve? If they don't deserve to die, why would anybody put up death traps like that? You've claimed earlier that I wasn't making any sense but when you did that, you were putting your own words in my mouth. I'm not doing that here, I'm just asking what problem is Abbot solving? I can't find a good data driven explanation, just rhetorical statements by Abbot and Cruz. So, I'm listening but need more than a Ted Cruz story. Where are the data that justifies Abbot's probably illegal river barrier?
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I am no fan of Abbott. He is nothing but a mini version of Trump. I do not agree with what Abbott has done when it comes to the barriers. He uses the term defend the border like we are at war with mexico. I sometimes think he has declared war on immigrants but I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But I do as a former Texan understand that immigrants who cross illegally have become a problem for the state.
 
Skillcraft said:
If it was an unseen barrier I would totally agree with you. Do these people deserve to die, of course not. I do not like what Abbott did but what is Texas to do. I grew up in Texas and they are stretched thin. I am not smart enough to solve the problem. But i do believe there is an answer. I would like to see more judges and case workers to assist the immigrants in their pursuit of the American dream. Most of them are good people who are just trying to do what we all want. A better life for our families.
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American dream. lol.

Maybe they’re just trying to get to Canada, cause the U.S. ain’t what it used to be.
 
Skillcraft said:
I am no fan of Abbott. He is nothing but a mini version of Trump. I do not agree with what Abbott has done when it comes to the barriers. He uses the term defend the border like we are at war with mexico. I sometimes think he has declared war on immigrants but I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But I do as a former Texan understand that immigrants who cross illegally have become a problem for the state.
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I don't like Abbot either but that's not what we are talking about.

I'm getting at a contradiction in logic or what to me seems to be a contradiction.

What problem in Texas is so bad that a person should die if they attempt to cross the border? For such a severe outcome their should also be a well established set of facts to show it is necessary. At least that's how I see it.
 
Lucky Luke said:
We have a seasonal worker working visa here in Tas, mainly for Pacific islanders. Its all done through agencies that specialise in it, they also house them. A mate makes a good quid housing 6 people in a place that if you swung a cat in the cat would die and you would have holes in the very red walls.
Good thing is they earn aussie min wage which is a fortune for them and their families back home. The savvy ones send a HEAP of goods back home for resale. Middle of summer and they are dressed for the arctic lol.
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I can’t fault them. Looking at Wiki, your January average daily temp is 17.9.

This falls below the Minimum Tolerable Temperature of 25,
and flirts dangerously with the Minimum Survivable Temperature of 15,
at which coconut oil is rock-solid.

To a Pacific Islander, whose lifetime was spent in the narrow band of 24 to 32, and who have a word for 26 degrees that roughly translates as The Cold That Makes Nipples Unhappy, all y’all are a wayward sliver of Antarctica.
 
cannabineer said:
I can’t fault them. Looking at Wiki, your January average daily temp is 17.9.

This falls below the Minimum Tolerable Temperature of 25,
and flirts dangerously with the Minimum Survivable Temperature of 15,
at which coconut oil is rock-solid.

To a Pacific Islander, whose lifetime was spent in the narrow band of 24 to 32, and who have a word for 26 degrees that roughly translates as The Cold That Makes Nipples Unhappy, all y’all are a wayward sliver of Antarctica.
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What?? 25C is 77F and that's shirt sleeve weather! Beware of strange people bearing statistics and an agenda.
 
ttystikk said:
If we're going to look at actual causes, let's be clear that the vast majority of refugees around the world, including those attempting to enter the United States, are displaced by or running from acts of war or colonialism in their home countries. In both of those situations, by far the worst actor is the United States. Viewed in that light- the one of ultimate causes- America's "illegal immigrant" problem is self inflicted.

Of course you won't get a MAGA type to listen to that.
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MAGA and Repug won't, they have no desire to.....for them it's just a platform and a talking point. If (and i use "if" strongly here) they did immigration reform would have be passed a long time ago, and the thing dealing with immigration would have been fixed......but nooooo MAGA and the Repugs don't want that...all they wanna do is point fingers
 
Fogdog said:
I don't like Abbot either but that's not what we are talking about.

I'm getting at a contradiction in logic or what to me seems to be a contradiction.

What problem in Texas is so bad that a person should die if they attempt to cross the border? For such a severe outcome their should also be a well established set of facts to show it is necessary. At least that's how I see it.
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All you have to do is look at El Paso to see what problems arise from illegal border crossings. It has become a humanitarian crisis not to mention that it is draining the budget in the Texas. Not all immigrants take advantage of public assistance programs but many do. Not all immigrants are criminals but some are. Although I would say it is a very small percentage. We cannot afford as a nation to allow everyone who wants to come here come. Especially not by the 100s of thousands. It is a shame that it has to come down to money but it does.
 
BudmanTX said:
MAGA and Repug won't, they have no desire to.....for them it's just a platform and a talking point. If (and i use "if" strongly here) they did immigration reform would have be passed a long time ago, and the thing dealing with immigration would have been fixed......but nooooo MAGA and the Repugs don't want that...all they wanna do is point fingers
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They understand that those immigrants come to America to drive down wages for blue collar jobs from restaurants and agriculture to trades. From that viewpoint it makes sense- and can therefore be used by unscrupulous politicians to manipulate them.
 
If he's got money then the capitol cops will sue his ass for every dime while he's behind bars, we will see how much "fun" that is, first the lawyers will take a lot of his cash defending him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688676679017959424

BREAKING: MAGA loses big time as a treasonous Jan. 6th insurrectionist is arrested for allegedly attacking Capitol police with a slew of dangerous objects during the attempt coup.

The details of this one make him one of the worst insurrectionists yet...

Lowell Gates, a 63-year-old realtor from Pennsylvania, not only threw things at officers, he assaulted them with a flagpole which he used "in a spear-like motion to lunge at the officers, striking them at least three times."

He allegedly told investigators he "generally had a lot of fun.

Gates appears to be quite rich as well, as he's listed as the president and CEO of Linlo Properties, a bustling commercial real estate business.

Previously, Gates was arrested for a crime unrelated to the Capitol riot. He was taken in by police after he was caught walking around his neighborhood without pants or underwear.

This maniac deserves serious time behind bars.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
Go drag the cocksucker into court, slap him with the stiffest sentence possible, and cram his fucking ass into a cell the next day. Fuck these assholes who think they can ignore the law. It's either admit they can, or show them they can't...I say show ALL the motherfuckers that they can't. TODAY.
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Hey Roger, I hope all is well with you.

The court made it judgement on that cocksucker, Ammon Bundy:


Ammon Bundy, the Idaho-based anti-government activist who captured national attention seven years ago when he led an armed occupation of federal land in Oregon, has been ordered to pay $26 million dollars to a Boise hospital, its CEO, a doctor and a nurse practitioner.

Bundy had accused them of malpractice when a grandson of a friend was treated at St. Luke’s Meridian Medical Center after the child was taken into protective custody by police. Bundy led protests in front of the hospital that resulted in him being arrested for trespassing.

The child, described by police as “suffering from severe malnourishment” during previous medical care, is the grandson of far-right activist Diego Rodriguez, whom Bundy described as a “very good friend.” Rodriguez was also named as a defendant, and the jury ordered him and his Freedom Man organizations to pay $26.5 million.

“The jury’s decision imposes accountability for the ongoing campaign of intimidation, harassment and disinformation these defendants have conducted,” St. Luke’s said in a written statement.

he $26 million judgment against Bundy was split between compensatory and punitive damages, and includes not only Bundy personally, but also his failed gubernatorial campaign and his political organization, People’s Rights Network.

“People in a jury deciding how much St. Luke’s is going to take from those who exposed the truth about them is a mockery to justice,” Bundy said in a Twitter post Tuesday following the verdict.

Both defendants refused to appear in court, resulting in a default judgment against them. Bundy wrote in an open letter to the hospital and state officials before the jury’s decision that he could not pay any judgment because the legal battle had forced to “liquidate all my assets except a few.”


The judgement is against Ammon's PAC as well as personally against him. There is money in the kitty. First strip him of his "few" assets. Then clean out his PAC with a lien against both to take any future donations the schlub should receive. A photo taken earlier this year shows what he means when he says he has "few assets".

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That's a nice home that somebody else will be living in very soon. It won't cover the judgement against him but it's a start.
 
ttystikk said:
They understand that those immigrants come to America to drive down wages for blue collar jobs from restaurants and agriculture to trades. From that viewpoint it makes sense- and can therefore be used by unscrupulous politicians to manipulate them.
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keep in mind there is alot of blue collar people who don't want those jobs, they are look for something cushy and easy, meanwhile migrant in a sense are willing to get in that hole to dig a ditch, who are willing to go on a roof to fix it, who are willing to walk in a field to pick crops......the surprise is they are getting a nice wage to go with it, most get anywhere to 10 to 15 and hour, they get breaks etc etc.......now migrant can work from those jobs, get a home, get a car, go to school and build to become that blue collar worker....and some actually do it....i know of one here in my city, that came over from mexico when he was young, when get got older he started a shop that works on cars, while he's was doing that he was going to school, he studied to become a doctor, he finally graduated as a doctor in the end and still works in texas as one, he also works for dr w/o borders as well....and there are many like him......
 
ttystikk said:
They understand that those immigrants come to America to drive down wages for blue collar jobs from restaurants and agriculture to trades. From that viewpoint it makes sense- and can therefore be used by unscrupulous politicians to manipulate them.
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The effect (if any) illegal immigrants have on wages is so small that it can't be reliably measured.


But that's not why wages for blue collar workers have been held down for the past few decades. "Unscrupulous politicians" are using the issue of illegal immigrants as a scapegoat. We both know why wages for blue collar workers has not tracked the economic growth in the country. Or at least you did at one time.
 
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