Female Noob here. Have a ? about humidity!

Medi 1 said:

actualy bag seed is made from a hermied plant, so its what some will call a feminized seed. not 100% gaurnateed female. female and feminized are diff. feminized means to have more tendancy to be a female. and female is...female. lots of seed breeders do it then sell those and call them feminized, its why we see so many get hemies buying some feminized seeds...was done wrong. the right way is to take the hermied pollen and use it on a clone from same plant so donor mom isnt a stressed hermie and pass those genes on. so to make all that crap short...your bag seed is feminized so has more tendancy to be a female....wasnt the humidity

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Ok...whimper whimper...there's a noob here with her tail btw her legs. Hey, it's all Cowboylogic's fault for giving me that idea... Hope he has a good sense of humor.... u there lurking Cowboy???

So, I am getting nervous. If I actually have 7 seedlings right now...OMG...and they all become female...I am definitely going to need some ONA!!!

Thank you Medi for all the info...you rock.

MTgirl said:

I also have trained killer deer...LOL

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I bet I can teach that Deer how to lay down and play dead.

Medi 1 said:

lol....well blocking cell comunications and blocking a heat signature is 2 diff animals...pardon da pun.

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Ok, so how far do those portable IR's pick up? 100 ft away....500 ft away? Maybe I should have just left those icy stairs the way they were...LOL. Let some thief fall down them and break their ass instead of me!!!

Lord Dangly Bits said:

I bet I can teach that Deer how to lay down and play dead.

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I would pay $$ to see that, but without using a rifle or bow...

would all depend on the cost and quality of the gun. im not sure how far away that test was done, i can ask though. it was done through a builds walls and can see the perfect outline of the bulb

wonder if it could penetrate 1 ft deep of solid stone...and then another 1 foot of concrete within that stone exterior...

depends on the heat it gives off. thats what it reads is the heat from the room, im sure your fine then....you in prison???...lol

Medi 1 said:

depends on the heat it gives off. thats what it reads is the heat from the room, im sure your fine then....you in prison???...lol

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Hahaha...never ever been arrested before, not even close. Mum and dad are attorneys. Bonus .

Just thought of a few questions I figured you could answer Medi (or anyone else out there stalking)....Would it be OK if I went from 24 hrs to 18/6 with those 7 seedlings? They are all around 2 weeks old now, give or take a few days, and have been on 24/7 since they sprouted. Thinking of conserving energy, lifespan of the bulbs, and $$ too, of course. What is the real difference between the 24/7 and 18/6 light schedules?

MTgirl said:

]What is the real difference between the 24/7 and 18/6 light schedules?

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a 100 % copy and paste-->


24/0 is best. -Ed Rosenthal
This is a direct quote from Ed Rosenthal whom most of you know is a marijuana growing guru:
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marijuana plants photosynthesize as long as they receive light as well as water, air, nutrients and suitable temperature. Photosynthesis is the process in which plants use the energy from light (primarily in the blue and red spectrum's) to combine carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air and water (H2O) to make sugar while releasing oxygen to the air.
Plants use sugars continuously to fuel metabolic processes (living) as well as for tissue building. The plant combines nitrogen (N) with the sugar to make amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. They are the substance of plant tissue. When the light is off, the plant's metabolic processes, respiration and growth, continue.
The plant can photosynthesize continuously so it produces the most energy and growth when the light is on, continuously. Continuous light does not stress the plant, which reacts somewhat mechanistically to it.
Plants under an 18-6 light-dark regimen are producing sugar only three quarters of the time. They are thus growing at only 75% of their potential. Leaving the light on continuously will result in bigger plants, faster, which leads to higher yields."
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"The following information is straight from Greg Green's "The Cannabis Grow Bible"
Cannabis is a light demanding plant. Professional growers keep the light on their plants using the 24/0 photoperiod for this reason. Plants that grow under 24/0 flourish and do not need a quantity of darkness in order to rest and perform photosynthesis properly. Plants that are grown in optimal conditions under 24/0 light regime grow vigorusly and the benefits of a 24/0 photoperiod can be seen actively in the results. More nodes are formed, more branches are created, leaf numbers increase, the plant is growing at its finest.
Some growers opt to use 18/6 as their photoperiod. This is 18 hours of light, six hours of darkness light regime. Under these conditions the plant will grow quite naturally but not as vigorously as the 24/0 photoperiod.
The 18/6 photoperiod expels 3/4 the amount of light that a 24/0 photoperiod does. Although this does not mean that a plant produces 1/4 less leaves,branches and nodes under the 18/6 photoperiod, it certainly does show the correlation between light and cannabis growth. As we have said already, cannabis is a light demanding plant. There are no problems associated with 24/0 and although some have attributed cannabis sexual dysfunction (the hermaphrodite conditon) to 18/6 photoperiod these problems are actually the result of heat stress.
A 24/0 photoperiod requires that your grow room temperature be kept well monitored. The 18/6 option is cheaper to run. You use a quarter less electricity and this will have an impact on your electricity bill. Also the 18/6 photoperiod will generally extend the bulb's lifespan. During the 6 hours of darkness the grow room is allowed to cool down for this period but a well maintained good grow room setup should not require a cooling down period.
24/0 and 18/6 both share the same problem though. Once you start the photoperiod you should keep that way especially when the plants near maturity (the preflowering stage). An irregular photoperiod can cause more males than females to develop. It can also cause sexual dysfunction to appear. Whether you choose 24/0 or 18/6 as your vegetative photoperiod try to keep that photoperiod unitl your plants are mature enough to express their sex."
24/0 is superior insofar as plant growth

You are THE MAN frmrboi...thank you for the incredibly quick reply. Great info. I am going to stay at 24/7. Thank you thank you thank you again!!!

MTgirl said:

You are THE MAN frmrboi...thank you for the incredibly quick reply. Great info. I am going to stay at 24/7. Thank you thank you thank you again!!!

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that was my reaction (and many others) when I first read that post so I copied it for safe keeping.
and contrary to what your gut feeling would be to the question, your light bulbs/tubes will last longer (total hours not day night cycles) with 24 hours

frmrboi said:

that was my reaction (and many others) when I first read that post so I copied it for safe keeping.
and contrary to what your gut feeling would be to the question, your light bulbs/tubes will last longer (total hours not day night cycles) with 24 hours

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interesting...is that because it takes more energy for the light bulb to "get started up" again after the resting period or something?

MTgirl said:

interesting...is that because it takes more energy for the light bulb to "get started up" again after the resting period or something?

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I knew you were going to ask that. No, each start up causes arching on the internal electrodes, this erodes a special coating on them when that fails it can cause light failure.
Ever wonder why you see office towers with all the lights on (not as much as you used to though) that's the reason.

MTgirl said:

OMG speak of the devil . Scroll up Cowboylogic...was just talking about one of your old threads!!! So, what ended up happening during your future grows? Did you see any difference in female vs. males b/c of low humidity? I was JUST referencing above, how you got like 9 out of 11 that were females....

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Never could definitively link lower humidity to a higher female rate in the long run. Numbers/ratios where very inconsistant. I have since begun using cucumber peels to increase female rates in regular seeds. It works based on the ethylene gas released by the peel. A couple of weeks(at least 21 days)before you plan on germing your beans you put them in a sealed container with some cuke peels. Not touching, just sharing the same container. Changing the peels out every couple of days. In theory the ethylene gas released by the peels stimulates female hormones in the germ. Alot of folks use this method with good results. Getting female rates above 80%.

its not so much the phtosynthisus. its more about other hormones that shape a plant. phtosynthisus dosent realy shape it..auxins and cytokins have way more responsability to the shape and structure. thery are triggered also by amount of dark to light. 24 hour does give tighter growth and less will look bigger to some but its realy more internode space. your getting an uneven ballance of those 2 hormones so the verticle ones show more meaning more stretch. 1 hormone does lateral grpowth and other is verticle...both below and above the soil.


maybe this explains homones better


Auxins

Auxins are compounds that positively influence cell enlargement, bud formation and root initiation. They also promote the production of other hormones and in conjunction with cytokins, they control the growth of stems, roots, and fruits, and convert stems into flowers. Auxins were the first class of growth regulators discovered. They affect cell elongation by altering cell wall plasticity. Auxins decrease in light and increase where it is dark. They stimulate cambium cells to divide and in stems cause secondary xylem to differentiate. Auxins act to inhibit the growth of buds lower down the stems (apical dominance), and also to promote lateral and adventitious root development and growth. Leaf abscission is initiated by the growing point of a plant ceasing to produce auxins. Auxins in seeds regulate specific protein synthesis, as they develop within the flower after pollination, causing the flower to develop a fruit to contain the developing seeds. Auxins are toxic to plants in large concentrations; they are most toxic to dicots and less so to monocots. Because of this property, synthetic auxin herbicides including 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T have been developed and used for weed control. Auxins, especially 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA) and Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), are also commonly applied to stimulate root growth when taking cuttings of plants. The most common auxin found in plants is indoleacetic acid or IAA. The correlation of auxins and cytokinins in the plants is a constant


Cytokinins

Cytokinins or CKs are a group of chemicals that influence cell division and shoot formation. They were called kinins in the past when the first cytokinins were isolated from yeast cells. They also help delay senescence or the aging of tissues, are responsible for mediating auxin transport throughout the plant, and affect internodal length and leaf growth. They have a highly synergistic effect in concert with auxins and the ratios of these two groups of plant hormones affect most major growth periods during a plant's lifetime. Cytokinins counter the apical dominance induced by auxins; they in conjunction with ethylene promote abscission of leaves, flower parts and fruits. The correlation of auxins and cytokinins in the plants is a constant

Ethylene

Ethylene is a gas that forms through the Yang Cycle from the breakdown of methionine, which is in all cells. Ethylene has very limited solubility in water and does not accumulate within the cell but diffuses out of the cell and escapes out of the plant. Its effectiveness as a plant hormone is dependent on its rate of production versus its rate of escaping into the atmosphere. Ethylene is produced at a faster rate in rapidly growing and dividing cells, especially in darkness. New growth and newly germinated seedlings produce more ethylene than can escape the plant, which leads to elevated amounts of ethylene, inhibiting leaf expansion. As the new shoot is exposed to light, reactions by phytochrome in the plant's cells produce a signal for ethylene production to decrease, allowing leaf expansion. Ethylene affects cell growth and cell shape; when a growing shoot hits an obstacle while underground, ethylene production greatly increases, preventing cell elongation and causing the stem to swell. The resulting thicker stem can exert more pressure against the object impeding its path to the surface. If the shoot does not reach the surface and the ethylene stimulus becomes prolonged, it affects the stems natural geotropic response, which is to grow upright, allowing it to grow around an object. Studies seem to indicate that ethylene affects stem diameter and height: When stems of trees are subjected to wind, causing lateral stress, greater ethylene production occurs, resulting in thicker, more sturdy tree trunks and branches. Ethylene affects fruit-ripening: Normally, when the seeds are mature, ethylene production increases and builds-up within the fruit, resulting in a climacteric event just before seed dispersal. The nuclear protein Ethylene Insensitive2 (EIN2) is regulated by ethylene production, and, in turn, regulates other hormones including ABA and stress hormones





Gibberellins

Gibberellins, or GAs, include a large range of chemicals that are produced naturally within plants and by fungi. They were first discovered when Japanese researchers, including Eiichi Kurosawa, noticed a chemical produced by a fungus called Gibberella fujikuroi that produced abnormal growth in rice plants. Gibberellins are important in seed germination, affecting enzyme production that mobilizes food production used for growth of new cells. This is done by modulating chromosomal transcription. In grain (rice, wheat, corn, etc.) seeds, a layer of cells called the aleurone layer wraps around the endosperm tissue. Absoption of water by the seed causes production of GA. The GA is transported to the aleurone layer, which responds by producing enzymes that break down stored food reserves within the endosperm, which are utilized by the growing seedling. GAs produce bolting of rosette-forming plants, increasing internodal length. They promote flowering, cellular division, and in seeds growth after germination. Gibberellins also reverse the inhibition of shoot growth and dormancy induced by ABA


Other known hormones



Other identified plant growth regulators include:

• Brassinosteroids, are a class of polyhydroxysteroids, a group of plant growth regulators. Brassinosteroids have been recognized as a sixth class of plant hormones which stimulate cell elongation and division, gravitropism, resistance to stress and xylem differentiation. They inhibit root growth and leaf abscission. Brassinolide was the first identified brassinosteroid and was isolated from organic extracts of rapeseed (Brassica napus) pollen in 1970.
• Salicylic acid - activates genes in some plants that produce chemicals that aid in the defense against pathogenic invaders.
• Jasmonates - are produced from fatty acids and seem to promote the production of defense proteins that are used to fend off invading organisms. They are believed to also have a role in seed germination, and affect the storage of protein in seeds, and seem to affect root growth.
• Plant peptide hormones - encompasses all small secreted peptides that are involved in cell-to-cell signaling. These small peptide hormones play crucial roles in plant growth and development, including defense mechanisms, the control of cell division and expansion, and pollen self-incompatibility .
• Polyamines - are strongly basic molecules with low molecular weight that have been found in all organisms studied thus far. They are essential for plant growth and development and affect the process of mitosis and meiosis.
• Nitric oxide (NO) - serves as signal in hormonal and defense responses.
• Strigolactons, implicated in the inhibition of shoot branching.

Karrikines, a group of plant growth regulators found in the smoke of burning plant material that have the ability to stimulate the germination of seeds

and moving to 18 now is just fine, its in flower you dont move the light times around, doing in veg wont harm anything

cowboylogic said:

Never could definitively link lower humidity to a higher female rate in the long run. Numbers/ratios where very inconsistant. I have since begun using cucumber peels to increase female rates in regular seeds. It works based on the ethylene gas released by the peel. A couple of weeks(at least 21 days)before you plan on germing your beans you put them in a sealed container with some cuke peels. Not touching, just sharing the same container. Changing the peels out every couple of days. In theory the ethylene gas released by the peels stimulates female hormones in the germ. Alot of folks use this method with good results. Getting female rates above 80%.

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Wow...it kinda makes me wonder...how do people come up with these ideas? *scratching head* Great...now every time I make sushi rolls or use cucumbers in general, I am going to think about this...

I think Im gonna claim to be a female n00b infuture if I need a question answered...10 pages in 2 days?! Just about humidity?! Jaysus lads, bit desperate for female attention??! J/k.

Medi 1 said:

and moving to 18 now is just fine, its in flower you dont move the light times around, doing in veg wont harm anything

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Medi...I felt, for a second, I was in college again LOL. Thank God I won't be tested on any on that 411... Thanks!

On another note, I was looking at the loner today and noticed how there were a few larger dark green leaves (I think you guys call em fan leaves) that seem to be preventing the lower leaves (more light green) from getting light. I kinda moved those fan leaves underneath the flowering ones, so that the ones which are more light green, could get more light. Is that ok?

Do you ever just remove/cut off these fan leaves completely, or just keep putting them down underneath the flowering ones?