Femaleseeds Grapefruit soil or heat issues? photo inside :)

Please any help would be greatly appreciated desperately would like to keep this baby alive!


This is my first time growing in such an interesting location and I am not an experienced indoor grower. Below I have 3 photos 2 of the baby grapefruit 15days from seed under 12/12 and another random seed I forget what it is that has been given exact same treatment and seems to be doing JUST FINE.

The Grapefruit leaves seem to be tacoing and this morning i noticed the tips of the leaves beginning to curl upward and yellow.

My mind tells me its one of three things, Soil too dense/compacted which resulted in poor drainage/over watering (also having trouble with high humidity here) or I lowered the lights to close too soon and gave the plant some heat stress. Whats throwing me off is my one 'random' is doing just fine where as this grapefruit is looking increasingly unhappy.


1) Growing indoor or outdoors - indoors, 400hps. Currently about 10inches away from top. Room Temperature has been sort of difficult dialing in as it has become very very cold and humid here. I would say the median temp under the canopy is 78f. I have an oscillating fan running at all time

2) Watering schedule - have only watered twice. maximum amount of water given in 15 days 8oz. (maybe too much given my worries with the soil)

3) Growing Medium - this i fear is perhaps my issue.
The only soil I could find where I currently live was 5.5ph-6.5 ph organic soil. I looked all over the open markets to find perlite, vermiculite, sand, etc & was unable to find anything at the beginning. Against my better judgement I went ahead and planted. So my soil is very compact when I watered the second time the water just sits on the surface for an extended period of time before soaking in. Its been well over a week since i last watered and when I test with my finger the soil is wet within a quarter inch of the top soil.
I recently found these clay balls at a nearby store. and attempted to poorly use them to help loosen up my soil. I have no experience with these before so any help is once again greatly appreciated.


4) What stage of growth - 15 days from seed, straight to 12/12 along with another random seed I forget what it is 15days from seed 12/12

I have a blue cheese in the same room under same conditions that is doing great I vegged her for 2 months prior to putting her under 12/12 but than decided to add two different seeds the "grapefruit" which i have been wanting to grow for a long while and the 'random' as a trial to see how well the 12/12 from seed works for me.

once again any insight would be greatly appreciated. I finally found a store that sells some hydro stuff today however its closed and in my mind I was thinking of going and picking up some air pots and doing a transplant to see if this would remedy. Prior to this I was hoping for some insight from this wonderful community.

Regards,
-HJ

on a side note I made a point to read as many articles as possible prior to making this post, I am really hoping to have some reinforcement from you guys here so that whatever move i make next is most prudent to my plants success.

Regards,
-HJ

Ok for starters why are you running 12/12 from seed? You should be running 24/0 or 18/6 or some where in between....I would say that the distance from your light is going to be causing heat of issues. You need to take temps from the top if the plant, most people have a fan that blows between the light and plant....your watering schematic is way wrong as well...droopy leaves indicate over or underwatering also. You should be watering every 2-3 days and lifting the pit to check its weight is a good way to determine if it needs water or not.

Sorry just noticed that you have a fan on canopy and temp of 78
Which is creeping on the high side....I still think your light is much too close ......I have seedlings under a 600hps and they srtart out at 36"+ away

Buzz Buzzilla said:

Ok for starters why are you running 12/12 from seed? You shoud be running 24/0 or 18/6 or some where in between....I would say that the distance from your light is going to be causing heat of issues. You need to take temps from the top if the plant, most people have a fan that blows between the light and plant....your watering schematic is way wrong as well...droopy leaves indicate over or underwatering also. You should be watering every 2-3 days and lifting the pit to check its weight is a good way to determine if it needs water or not.

Sorry just noticed that you have a fan on canopy and temp of 78
Which is creeping on the high side....I still think your light is much too close ......I have seedlings under a 600hps and they srtart out at 36"+ away

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Thank you for your reply. Ive seen a lot of people have great success with 12/12 from seed so I decided to throw two into my room to see how they would fair. Ive read through many journals and there are people out there yielding well over an oz per plant from 12/12. I even read of someone who supposedly yields around 1g per watt even though he does 12/12 from seed.

Temperatures here are freezing at the moment and my space is in an under ground cellar so its been a challenge getting temps ideal. I started the seedlings originally under the hps almost 3 feet away and slowly began to lower. As you can see the one plant seems to be fairing quite well and it has been given the exact treatment as the other. I know I went a little over board on the water at the beginning but im currently doing the best I can given the scenario that im currently in. I am in a very non friendly mmj country atm and all my experience is outdoor in northern california so when it comes to dialing in an under ground grow room its proven difficult with my limited experience.

As far as the plant that is having issues do you feel that the leaves color and the way it is folding is due to heat stress? I currently have a heater going in the room as night time temps here become extremely low. In the early AM(7am)when lights turn on its sometimes as low as 55f even with the heater going. So it has been fical process trying to get the heater at proper temps during lights on and lights off.

The herb in this part of the world is soo ridiculously bad and expensive m desperate to make as much yield as I possibly can given my time frame. Which is also why I made the choice to add/experiment with the 12/12 from seed

Any more opinions/insight would be greatly appreciated.

Much love

EDIT: as I mentioned one of my concerns is the soil I had access to does not give me good drainage. Im thinking of doing a transplant now that ive found better pots soil and perlite. Watering the soil at the moment just leaves the water sitting at the top very very slowly soaking into the soil and doesnt seem to be drying out well at all.

From my understanding using 12/12 8-10w in the same space as 18/6 - 12/12 16-18w will yield more if your not conserened about plant count as it could take 25x plants for same space as a normal grow....I would concentrate on regular cloning and LST or Scrooge techniques if you want the best bang for your effort....25x more plants would be fun but very challenging and very illegal in most cases.

Raise your light a little. Keep the ph at and 6.0 to 6.5. You can order perlite a d better soil online. I like Happy Frog from Fox Farm and am using Roots Organics soil now and am really liking it so far seems prefect right out if the bag. You did not say what type of water you are using, what the ph and ppm of that water is from the source, what the ph and ppm are when you water your plant and what nutes you are adding and what the temp of the grow space is. It looks like a heat issue ans well as a nutrient uptake issue either from a lack of nutes probably no3, could be from incorrect ph or a root issue if you have poor drainage.

humbo jumbo said:

3) Growing Medium - this i fear is perhaps my issue.
The only soil I could find where I currently live was 5.5ph-6.5 ph organic soil. I looked all over the open markets to find perlite, vermiculite, sand, etc & was unable to find anything at the beginning. Against my better judgement I went ahead and planted.

Click to expand...

You should have trusted your judgement. Looking at this soil it looks rubbish and not suitable for growing healthy plants.
Can you get some quality coco made for growing dope?

Buzz Buzzilla said:

From my understanding using 12/12 8-10w in the same space as 18/6 - 12/12 16-18w will yield more if your not conserened about plant count as it could take 25x plants for same space as a normal grow....I would concentrate on regular cloning and LST or Scrooge techniques if you want the best bang for your effort....25x more plants would be fun but very challenging and very illegal in most cases.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your input. Pardon me I am very interested in fully understanding this. What exactly do you mean when you say "From my understanding using 12/12 8-10w in the same space as 18/6 - 12/12 16-18w"

What is the 8-10w & 16-18 W in reference to?

Regards,
-hj

IndoorSolar said:

Raise your light a little. Keep the ph at and 6.0 to 6.5. You can order perlite a d better soil online. I like Happy Frog from Fox Farm and am using Roots Organics soil now and am really liking it so far seems prefect right out if the bag. You did not say what type of water you are using, what the ph and ppm of that water is from the source, what the ph and ppm are when you water your plant and what nutes you are adding and what the temp of the grow space is. It looks like a heat issue ans well as a nutrient uptake issue either from a lack of nutes probably no3, could be from incorrect ph or a root issue if you have poor drainage.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the input <3

I have found an obscure place I am going to take a trolley to today that supposedly the only hydro equipment store in the entire country.
Crossing my fingers that this hydro store is legit and not some sort of state run scam put into play by the corrupt police.

I am using distilled water, Its about 1.50$ for a 6 liter bottle of it here.
I havent added any nutes.
My drainage is very poor. I have come to the conclusion that it is most likely a root issue (I hope).
The new growth is smaller than the last and the stem is changing color and structure into what looks like a twig.
Im going to transplant today into better soil and air pots.

They really screw you on the soil here.
Minimum at the hydro store is apparently 10liters and its price is the equivalent to 1/10th of what a family of 5 lives off of in a month...... -_-

*BUDS said:

You should have trusted your judgement. Looking at this soil it looks rubbish and not suitable for growing healthy plants.
Can you get some quality coco made for growing dope?

Click to expand...

I wish I could! Even the hydro store I stumbled upon online doesn't carry coco. Maybe when I head out there in a bit I will get lucky and they will have.

At the very least ill have proper soil and air pots.

Definitely worried about the transplant on these already stressed out plants that I doubt are even close to being rooted. I got some bob marley playing for them at the moment. Giving them some sweet melodies prior to their operation
Little positive juju

Ill post a photo let you guys know how they come along. I also have a germed AK-47 thats ready to be put into soil. ill throw it into this new soil under t5's (12/12) for a bit and than straight under hps 12/12. So I will have 4 plants going. Will be interesting to see the yields of the 12/12's from seed in comparison to the 2month vegged fimmed blue cheese.

Regards,
-Hj<3

Sorry for the late reply...w is in reference to weeks time....also if stay away from r/o or distilled water...too many people make this mistake with good intentions. Neither have micro nutes in the quantities your plant needs in its early life, Iron being one of the mist important followed by zinc in my opinion. With out these small quantities NPK (your primary nutes) are useless.

Tap water left out for a day will work just fine...add a air pump to water if possible. The only time I would ever used distilled or r/o is for first stage of cloning it seed starting and for the base of a foliage spray...I suppose if you want to try a tea worm, kelp or compost tea you may get what you need as far as micro nutes as well.

IndoorSolar said:

Raise your light a little. Keep the ph at and 6.0 to 6.5. You can order perlite a d better soil online. I like Happy Frog from Fox Farm and am using Roots Organics soil now and am really liking it so far seems prefect right out if the bag. You did not say what type of water you are using, what the ph and ppm of that water is from the source, what the ph and ppm are when you water your plant and what nutes you are adding and what the temp of the grow space is. It looks like a heat issue ans well as a nutrient uptake issue either from a lack of nutes probably no3, could be from incorrect ph or a root issue if you have poor drainage.

Click to expand...

I use happy frog and ffof and have found that both need added perlite any where from 15-30% to avoid compaction and water uptake issues.

hey everyone thanks for all your help and comments.

I wanted to give a brief update and hopefully get some opinions on this grapefruit from femaleseeds that is still giving me issues.

My bagseed exploded after transplant and is already showing sex. however the grapefruit leaves are still giving me trouble, the median temperature is around 75f now.

The grapefruit leaves still seem stressed, they have an interesting sort of elasticity....in the way that i can bend the leaves up or down and they willl stay that way, they dont feel brittle or anything but they are still doing the sort of taco issue and bending. I raised the light a bit but i really dont feel like this is the problem. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

The first photo is the bagseed which has been given almost the exact same conditions as the grapefruit the second to are othe same angle of the grapefruit but i bent the leaves different directions to try and give example.

Ive been searching the net for info on this but any insight from the community would be really wonderful.

Thank you all for your time

-hj

My last grow I had a plant that had some rolled up leaves like that. Normally I would be leaning towards heat . What was odd is that in my case they were the really low leaves that were directly in front of the dehuey. So I attributed it to low humidity....but I see you mentioned that your cold with high humidity?

orbo said:

My last grow I had a plant that had some rolled up leaves like that. Normally I would be leaning towards heat . What was odd is that in my case they were the really low leaves that were directly in front of the dehuey. So I attributed it to low humidity....but I see you mentioned that your cold with high humidity?

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Thanks for coming through to take a look orbo! Did you figure out what the issue was when you ran into similar problem?

current temp outside is 34f inside right now im at 76f with a heater going at the moment my humidity is high. this morning it was at 87%
Im getting a dehumidifier today.

To reiterate this room is 25meters below the earth and built into the side of a mountain so its been a pain getting climate dialed in

kindest regards
-HJ

humbo jumbo said:

Thanks for coming through to take a look orbo! Did you figure out what the issue was when you ran into similar problem?

current temp outside is 34f inside right now im at 76f with a heater going at the moment my humidity is high. this morning it was at 87%
Im getting a dehumidifier today.

To reiterate this room is 25meters below the earth and built into the side of a mountain so its been a pain getting climate dialed in

kindest regards
-HJ

Click to expand...

It was the dehuey. And since I was in late flower AND it was the lower "popcorn" stuff, I didn't really care too much. I was driving the humidity down intentionally to try and improve resin production. It was just an observation and doesn't really make sense in your case...just thought I would share.

I've also seen high pH do weird things to leaves...how's your pH?

orbo said:

It was the dehuey. And since I was in late flower AND it was the lower "popcorn" stuff, I didn't really care too much. I was driving the humidity down intentionally to try and improve resin production. It was just an observation and doesn't really make sense in your case...just thought I would share.

I've also seen high pH do weird things to leaves...how's your pH?

Click to expand...

Just hunted down the local PH for our tap water here and the document say

Concentratia ionilor de hidrogen:
PH for oct tap water was 258.33 (which makes n sense to me) but it says PH of tap water for month of nov is 8.22ph....

Nothing up for Dec yet

So it looks like im definitely out of range as far as water goes.
Guess its time to go on another obscure hunt to find something to test water PH.

definitely should have taken into consideration water PH when trying to determine issue...hopefully I can find a solution to this quickly.
Still curious as to why my other two plants are for the moment looking very healthy to me. *knocks on wood*

Any more insight from anyone would be greatly appreciated

Regards,
-hj