FFS , back again with sick baby's

Right, here I go again guys.

I have a problem and it's frustrating the life out me.
My 2 seedlings are not doing that well again and I'm worried that the problem will stunt there growth or worse.

The story so far...

I started them off with tap water in Dwc 0.5-0.6ec pH 5.6-5.8
Left them there for 3 or 4 days then decided to give them both a light feed.
I added Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur @ 5ml A+B to 17 litres of water which brought the EC up to 0.75

First 24hrs they looked fine , and 2days ago I saw them not looking so good so I changed the Res and only gave them ph'd water. 24hrs later they looked slightly worse so yesterday I gave them both 1ml A+B in 17litres of water which took the EC to 0.59-0.60ec

Today the EC in both tanks hasn't moved whatsoever, there tiny so I don't expect to see much happening within a day.

Maybe my pictures will help you guys give an answer.

pH is stable at 5.6-5.8
Temps 80f day 73fnight
Humidity is low @ 35%
Light is 400w hps @ 30inches from tops.

Roots have grown out of netpot in the last 48hrs and are nice and white.
The smaller of the 2 seedlings has red veins starting and leaves are starting to curl down,,, the bigger of the 2 has mottled/marbled look on new growth and leaves are twisting slightly.

Yes I know your gonna say my water is shit and go for Ro to save trouble but that's not an option here.

Any suggestions?

Do u think I was overfeeding and went too hot at the start?
Or could it be deficiency due to being underfed?

Personally I think I was overfeeding but if you recognise and can identify my problem then PLEASE leave your input before you go.

Thanks guys and gals.

If I'm right and have done the maths correctly then my ppm's after subtracting the tap water are sitting between 88 and 95..

The bigger of the two is 9days old from popping it's head up out the cube and the smaller is 6days old.

Should I increase if I'm not seeing the EC drop?
Probably not because that would mean it's either spot on or there not feeding?

What do you do if there not taking nutes , I tried water for a day then added nutes but still no drop in EC.

I guess I just need to wait because there too small but would be nice for someone to pop in let me know what they think.

Thanks

You don't start feeding until you get the first set of multibladed leaves. Before that just water, and if using RO water use a little calmag but thats it until you get multibladed leaves.

Renfro said:

You don't start feeding until you get the first set of multibladed leaves. Before that just water, and if using RO water use a little calmag but thats it until you get multibladed leaves.

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You do know I'm using hydro "Dwc" yeah coz what you said thats not right bro...
I don't know anyone that can get away with just ro water without nutes in dwc for that length of time.

Correct me if I'm wrong tho.

It would be like growing in rockwool using no nutes just Ro... Doesn't make sense really. It wouldn't survive long with absolutely nothing in the media.

Hmm, with clones you would have to feed right away but I haven't ever fed a seedling until it had it's first set of multi bladed leaves. That said I don't generally even have them in the buckets yet, they would just be in rapid rooters in a tray with no dome or anything. I wouldn't even put them in the buckets until they were much bigger than those and actually need feed.

Maybe someone that does this more than I would have some input. I did DWC for a good while. I just didn't even have them in a DWC site until they had multibladed leaf set and I am feeding them. Now with RO you always want some calmag for them or even a little epsom. Until I am feeding I just use my tap water phed to around 5.8 - 6.0 for the seedlings in the rapid rooters, it's about 170 - 180 PPM.

Not saying this is your issue or anything, I never had any luck with rockwool personally but I know many that have. I just had problems with damp off using it, probably was afraid to let it dry enough, I dunno, never let the rapid rooters dry. lol

Is the lighting too intense for them at this age? I know you said 400 watt at 30 inches, so perhaps not.

I'm with Renfro. A seedling has enough energy/food to get by until the first set of true leaves grow, and even then I'd only give .05-1ml/gal of your base. (no extra calmag)

They need to establish a root zone before they start feeding so just water should be good

Hey, I'm no expert, but I've run RDWC a few times.
What's the water temps?
Are you letting the water sit for a day before using?
Keep the rockwool dry now that the roots are in the water, probably bro-science but it seems to help.

Thanks for the replies guys ,it's appreciated.
Maybe what I've heard isn't the truth , maybe just years of Chinese Whispers.
you know what we're all like lol.

Im not sure about the light renfro , possibly. It was at 40inches at the start then brought it down to 30 after a few days once they got used to the heat n stuff.

Both I think we're fed too early with too much this time so reducing should help which I've done over the last 48hrs

Roots are and were hanging out the netpot when I added nutes @larry , pristine white. It takes that long in a 5in netpot by the time they poke out the rootzones already quite established. Plus as soon as they hit that water they go nuts.

2WorldsFrog said:

Hey, I'm no expert, but I've run RDWC a few times.
What's the water temps?
Are you letting the water sit for a day before using?
Keep the rockwool dry now that the roots are in the water, probably bro-science but it seems to help.

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Thanks for the reply bro.

My water temps usually sit higher than I'd like, anywhere between 22c and 26c depending on what kinda day we have here but normally sits about 24c. Once they fill out and block out the light then the temps will reduce a fair bit.
Doesn't help I don't have white to black sheeting to stop the buckets heating up.

And yeah I let it sit overnight before I add it to the Res.

The fruit tree was drowning , the water level was touching the netpot so I took out a few litres and her leaves went from bending down to almost straight within hours..
I may have solved one of her problems but I'm not sure if the slightly red veins is another separate issue or just something that was caused by slightly overfeeding and then drowning her.

The colour I think is also returning but I can't really verify that until tomorrow as it was too late to get a proper look before lights out. Quick glance i got seemed like she was alot happier so it's a start at least.

The church I'm still not sure on , it just looked like it was getting a deficiency , the ribbed parts of the leaves looked marbled and yellowing but that may have also been caused by adding nutes so early. Especially with the twisting leaves I think.


With the changes I've made I gotta give them a day or 3 and see how they fair , do you guys think that 3 days should be enough to see if there feeding?
Would they even take a noticeable amount in a day. My ec pen doesn't read ppm's so I can only measure in increments of 0.01 EC which I have no idea how many ppm's that increment is.

Tangerine_ said:

I'm with Renfro. A seedling has enough energy/food to get by until the first set of true leaves grow, and even then I'd only give .05-1ml/gal of your base. (no extra calmag)

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Is that the case with hydro and rockwool tho? Soil and jiffy plugs yeah but rockwool I'm not sure on.

Genuine question as I don't know but
How long would a seedling survive in rockwool with just ph'd Ro water? Because in my mind it wouldn't last longer than a few days or a week which would not be long enough for the seedling to grow its first true set with 5 fingers especially if your starving her.

If you're talking about the 1st 3 fingered leaves then maybe but the next set definitely not.

I could be wrong but If its true then the same thing would happen in hydro using rockwool as a medium without adding nutrients. I'd be starving them after 2or3or4 days with nothing in the Res except ph'd water.

29menace said:

Is that the case with hydro and rockwool tho? Soil and jiffy plugs yeah but rockwool I'm not sure on.

Genuine question as I don't know but
How long would a seedling survive in rockwool with just ph'd Ro water? Because in my mind it wouldn't last longer than a few days or a week which would not be long enough for the seedling to grow its first true set with 5 fingers especially if your starving her.

If you're talking about the 1st 3 fingered leaves then maybe but the next set definitely not.

I could be wrong but If its true then the same thing would happen in hydro using rockwool as a medium without adding nutrients. I'd be starving them after 2or3or4 days with nothing in the Res except ph'd water.

Click to expand...

Jiffy plugs/peat plugs/coco plugs are inert just like rockwool. The only difference I've noted is the need to ph the water I presoak my cubes in. You could probably pre-treat your cubes with something that has mycos and/or bennies too and then just give spring water until the first set of leaves form. The cotyledons should provide enough energy until then. (by true leaves I mean the first set after the cotyledons open)
Or, you could always soak your cubes in a really mild nute solutions.

Try it both ways and see what work best for you.

.

29menace said:

If you're talking about the 1st 3 fingered leaves

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That is multiblade.

Here's today's pics , genuinely "at first glance" what comes into your minds?

The fruit tree has straightened her leaves out since lowering the water level.
I'm unsure if the colour is returning or not and there has been no change whatsoever in the Res.

Yesterday (0.69 EC) pH 5.75
Today (0.69 EC ) pH 5.74
My humidity is low , it's 28-30%
Temp in tent is 79f

There is just under 100ppms of nutes in the Res , do you guys still think that's too much right now?

Thanks for that info renfro , I have An's tarantula is that the bennies you talk about? I pre-treated the cubes when soaking with tarantula before I added the seeds.

I'm frustrated rn because i really don't know what I should do (lower/raise) , if I can't sort it I just know in a couple days I won't be able to save her. That's if she deteriorates any more.

Here's the church. Not much to report on with her either.

Yesterday's readings were ec0.66 ph5.72
Today's were ec0.66 and ph5.75

I'd just be alot happier if I saw the EC rise or fall.

Once the roots build up the foliage explodes