Final Flush, Ph Water or Not?

drgreentm said:

the point of flushing is to force the plant to leach itself of all reserve nute's it has stored up in itself now a plant can have over two weeks of reserve nutes stored away so if you are not flushing for at least two weeks your plant still has nutes in it plain and simple. i dont see a major need for it but thats my personal opinion (done side by side comparison couldnt tell the diff) but anyway if the point is for the plant to not take up nutes from the roots why would you need to ph anything ph is just for the plants ability to take in nutes so if your PHing when your trying to leach thats just a double negative lol no need for ph. your basically just using the water to keep the roots hydrated so they dont wither away and kill the plant in 2 days. i never ph'd water in a flush you have no nutes in the water anyway your just wasting your ph up/down.

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I dont believe ph'ing the water is for the roots to take in the nutes because the roots are going to take in whatever u give it reguardless, good ph is for the plant it self to "digest" the nutes correctly and not "lock them out". its kinda like a human eating uncooked food, your just going to get sick and throw it up, ur body isnt going to digest it normally. or at least thats one idea. again, i dont no the science on this. but hell its not gonna hurt if u take 10 secs to ph the water.

lol also i think the guy that said "you dont have to ph the water just like you dont have to flush" was being sarcastic, but im not sure. :/

Autumnfalls said:

I dont believe ph'ing the water is for the roots to take in the nutes because the roots are going to take in whatever u give it reguardless, good ph is for the plant it self to "digest" the nutes correctly and not "lock them out". its kinda like a human eating uncooked food, your just going to get sick and throw it up, ur body isnt going to digest it normally. or at least thats one idea. again, i dont no the science on this. but hell its not gonna hurt if u take 10 secs to ph the water.

lol also i think the guy that said "you dont have to ph the water just like you dont have to flush" was being sarcastic, but im not sure. :/

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well allow me to get a little more in depth i MAY have been a little vague. UNLESS your ph from your tap is below 5 or above 8 i wouldnt waste your time ph'ing during a flush. a plant can and will survive in water at ph's as low as 5 and as high as 7.5 this is a fact the point is your not going to put your plant into a nute lock at a 7 ph which is what normally tap water is at (neutral). dont know about your city/town, but mine has regulations to the ph of the water they feed us. so again your wasting your time as well as your ph up/down dropping your ph a single point in a flush i never said it was hard or time consuming just that its not going to do shit for your plants.

this is a site i found here is the link ( http://www.simplyhydro.com/ph.htm ) it explains how ph works and how excessively high ph's can cause iron and other nutes to precipitate which means basically those nutes are no longer part of the nute solution but now turning back to solid and will stick to the res so see its not that it debilitates the plant from absorbing iron its that there is no more iron in the water when the ph reaches 8 or higher. same with lower ph's then 5 there is a chart so you can see for yourself.

WHY IS pH IMPORTANT?

When the pH is not at the proper level the plant will lose its ability to absorb some of the essential elements required for healthy growth. For all plants there is a particular pH level that will produce optimum results (see chart 1 below). This pH level will vary from plant to plant, but in general most plants prefer a slightly acid growing environment (between 5.5-6.0), although most plants can still survive in an environment with a pH of between 5.0 and 7.5. When pH rises above 6.5 some of the nutrients and micro-nutrients begin to precipitate out of solution and can stick to the walls of the reservoir and growing chambers. For example: Iron will be about half precipitated at the pH level of 7.3 and at about 8.0 there is virtually no iron left in solution at all. In order for your plants to use the nutrients they must be dissolved in the solution. Once the nutrients have precipitated out of solution your plants can no longer absorb them and will suffer deficiency and death if left uncorrected. Some nutrients will precipitate out of solution when the pH drops also. Chart 2 (below) will give you an idea of what happens to availability some of the nutrients at different pH levels:

Chart 2 Availability Of Nutrients
Available At Different

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I just got off the phone with GH and while on was on the phone with them i slipped in this question because it has interested me. They said that the correct PH is for the roots them selves to uptake the nutes, and the nutes will be "digested" regardless of ph once it can actually get into the plant. so their is the answer to that. now they also said that it is still important to keep your ph at correct levels even during a flush because it makes it easier for the plant to get rid of the salts that have built up. now i didnt no into depth with them on the science but i will take his word for it. altho he did mention that if you are using florakleen that it seems to drop ph to right at 6.0 so you really wouldnt need to adjust the ph until you got to straight water.

and yes of course drgreentm, plants can grow in a wide spectrum of circumstances and adapt accordingly. thats not what, at least, my posts are about. its about what would be easiest on the plant, and the correct course of action to take. i mean just because the plant can take 7.5 ph levels (i no this personally.) and live at thos levels doesnt mean you have to be super lazy and leave it at thos levels when you have the tools to correct it and have the plant thrive, and be the most efficient it can be. its about whats right for the plant not how lazy someone can be.

and theirs the science to it folks.

Autumnfalls said:

They said that the correct PH is for the roots them selves to uptake the nutes, and the nutes will be "digested" regardless of ph once it can actually get into the plant.

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this is correct which is what i already stated from years of research not a phone conversation.

Autumnfalls said:

now they also said that it is still important to keep your ph at correct levels even during a flush because it makes it easier for the plant to get rid of the salts that have built up.

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i use h202 29% will kill more than ph'd water will anyday of the week and im pretty certain water will dissolve salts without anything.

Autumnfalls said:

altho he did mention that if you are using florakleen that it seems to drop ph to right at 6.0 so you really wouldnt need to adjust the ph until you got to straight water.

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and this is why i dont get lazy and ask rep's from a profiting business's for chemical advise on my feed water. this would be like me going into the hydro store i shop at and asking them if the most expensive flushing agent they carry will help my flush not sure about you but its his job to say yes and i have no hard feelings twords him for that. i cant help but to feel like you are calling me lazy in all your posts and i assure you im not i simply choose to not ph flush water it has nothing to do with laziness. picking the phone up and asking a question that you can answer yourself with a couple days of research now thats lazy. it isnt my job to get on here and answer ?'s i do it out of kindness but hell im starting to wonder if i should get a job at gh.

Cmonson said:

lol so we all agree not to listen to any thing this guy says....

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Yes, for gawds sake, don't listen to me! However there are some wiser fools on these forums that would tell you flushing makes no difference.

I actually used to fush, and still do from time to time just to save on nutrients. I decided it wasn't all that important after reading through Al B Fucts threads plus the numerous other threads done by people who have done side by side comparisons, only to discover time and time again that people (including myself) can't tell the difference between a flushed or non flushed buds. However there are a lot of folks, like Stink bud, who like to keep it 'old school' and flush, use organic nutrients, long cure, etc… to each his own.

But really, flush, don't flush, adjust PH, don't adjust PH, your buds will turn out fine. It will take longer than 2 weeks for deficiencies to effect the yield.

Dude I'm glad u got your opinions on shit, and I'm not about to have a "who's dick is bigger" argument with you but I also believe talking to chemical technicians of one of the most respected and longest lasting company's in the field is most definitely better then taking advice from you any day. You "expertise" is from a small number of grows where as GH has 30 years of experience with hundred of thousands of grows. But anyways I still consider your ways lazy, for before mentioned reasons. And yes, I no water will eventually take care of it, but you are obviously not reading. These are ways to hasten and at the same time correctly flush plants. We are talking about efficiency here not what we can get away with. Im glad your ways work for you, its just not the accepted, commercial, proven, and efficient method. Anyways Im done with your points, you obviously dont have anything worth saying. Btw, your so called "expensive flushing" method costs 10 bucks. If you really have an issue coming up with that, I suggest you find something else to do with your time that can pull you out of the poverty you've fallen into.

Woah there nellie! Did I somehow offend you? I wasn't trying to be a dick, or force my 'opinions' on you… dude. I was just relating my experiences with flushing and my sources (Al B Fuct, Lucas and several other pot-forum non-chemist losers). Did I say something was expensive? I'm not about to get into an internet argument about flushing (or whos dick is bigger )… I'm just glad you're 'done' with my 2 comments on this thread… and I'm glad I don't work support at GH.

Autumnfalls said:

Dude I'm glad u got your opinions on shit, and I'm not about to have a "who's dick is bigger" argument with you but I also believe talking to chemical technicians of one of the most respected and longest lasting company's in the field is most definitely better then taking advice from you any day. You "expertise" is from a small number of grows where as GH has 30 years of experience with hundred of thousands of grows. But anyways I still consider your ways lazy, for before mentioned reasons. And yes, I no water will eventually take care of it, but you are obviously not reading. These are ways to hasten and at the same time correctly flush plants. We are talking about efficiency here not what we can get away with. Im glad your ways work for you, its just not the accepted, commercial, proven, and efficient method. Anyways Im done with your points, you obviously dont have anything worth saying. Btw, your so called "expensive flushing" method costs 10 bucks. If you really have an issue coming up with that, I suggest you find something else to do with your time that can pull you out of the poverty you've fallen into.

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HAHAHAHA im so glad i ruined your day and for commercial proven methods who the hell are you and how would you know anything about commercial growing i doubt your grows are even to the caliber of mine buddy. everything talked about just went right over your head im sorry your pride was wounded because me and a gh rep told you the same thing and had to school you in how ph works and what it really does for a plant in hydro. if you cant even get that right you should try something else as a hobby because this is definitely not your calling in life my friend.

pdillo said:

Woah there nellie! Did I somehow offend you? I wasn't trying to be a dick, or force my 'opinions' on you… dude. I was just relating my experiences with flushing and my sources (Al B Fuct, Lucas and several other pot-forum non-chemist losers). Did I say something was expensive? I'm not about to get into an internet argument about flushing (or whos dick is bigger )… I'm just glad you're 'done' with my 2 comments on this thread… and I'm glad I don't work support at GH.

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i wouldnt worry bro he was talking to me. your advice is spot on and if this little noob wants to take shit like this up with al b himself (which i doubt he does) than thats fine with me. i have only seen 2 people on this entire site try and argue with that man and both didnt pan out well for them.

Autumnfalls said:

Dude I'm glad u got your opinions on shit, and I'm not about to have a "who's dick is bigger" argument with you but I also believe talking to chemical technicians of one of the most respected and longest lasting company's in the field is most definitely better then taking advice from you any day. You "expertise" is from a small number of grows where as GH has 30 years of experience with hundred of thousands of grows. But anyways I still consider your ways lazy, for before mentioned reasons. And yes, I no water will eventually take care of it, but you are obviously not reading. These are ways to hasten and at the same time correctly flush plants. We are talking about efficiency here not what we can get away with. Im glad your ways work for you, its just not the accepted, commercial, proven, and efficient method. Anyways Im done with your points, you obviously dont have anything worth saying. Btw, your so called "expensive flushing" method costs 10 bucks. If you really have an issue coming up with that, I suggest you find something else to do with your time that can pull you out of the poverty you've fallen into.

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im going to try and get it through to you again ONE more time ok answer me this genius if you are flushing with straight RO water with absolutely nothing for the plant to take in AT ALL. why the hell would you ph that water there is nothing for the plant to take in from the water. as you stated in your above post salt would be the culprit for that right i answered that for you already H202 29%. believe me water with a ph of 6 is not going to dissolve a salt buildup more efficiently than that plain and simple.dont know how much simpler it can get there is no argument here man you been proven wrong by me and your highly credible gh rep so stop coming on here and making yourself look stupider and stupider and how am i lazy when i add h202 to my flush water jack ass im adding SOMETHING you happy lol. and a "whos dick is bigger" contest its kinda hard to compete with a GIANT DICK.

drgreentm said:

i wouldnt worry bro he was talking to me. your advice is spot on and if this little noob wants to take shit like this up with al b himself (which i doubt he does) than thats fine with me. i have only seen 2 people on this entire site try and argue with that man and both didnt pan out well for them.

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oooookay, haha, now don't I look silly

I have to say, I was a bit taken back by all the growers on here who quoted my lil comment, and who apparently missed out on the thousands of 'flush' debates thats taken place on these forums over the years. Shits old news! Please kids, read up! Heres a good one to start with:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/71685-critical-look-preharvest-flushing.html

However, if you call your favorite nutrient company (you should have them on speed dial), and ask them what you should do, they will probably tell you to use their brand new special flushmaster 2000 formula along with their new and improved super PH adjuster (use at least every 30 min), all specially formulated for non-lazy growers

pdillo said:

oooookay, haha, now don't I look silly

I have to say, I was a bit taken back by all the growers on here who quoted my lil comment, and who apparently missed out on the thousands of 'flush' debates thats taken place on these forums over the years. Shits old news! Please kids, read up! Heres a good one to start with:
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/71685-critical-look-preharvest-flushing.html

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i agree just dont understand it. you can definitely tell the people who have tried different approaches on the matter and the ones who havent. i myself just like to flush to save on my nutes (not for taste or smell) thats all dependent on me and if i get really "lazy" and dont want to finish out the full cure on them but hell i cant help myself looking at those luscious buds calling my name lol.

pdillo said:

However, if you call your favorite nutrient company (you should have them on speed dial), and ask them what you should do, they will probably tell you to use their brand new special flushmaster 2000 formula along with their new and improved super PH adjuster (use at least every 30 min), all specially formulated for non-lazy growers

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hahaha agreed 100% man and the funny thing is i use gh nutes myself and love them but regardless i dont buy unnecessary crap ether.

drgreentm said:

i myself just like to flush to save on my nutes (not for taste or smell)

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Werd, thats what I do too sometimes… sometimes I don't flush, depends on how full the nute bottles are.

drgreentm said:

i use gh nutes myself and love them but regardless i dont buy unnecessary crap ether.

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Same here, I used to do Lucas, now I just go by the label. No additives (or magic sauce as Al B Fuct likes to call them). The basic 3 part GH series, 35% h2o2 and PH down are all I keep stocked.

Cheers

pdillo said:

Werd, thats what I do too sometimes… sometimes I don't flush, depends on how full the nute bottles are.


Same here, I used to do Lucas, now I just go by the label. No additives (or magic sauce as Al B Fuct likes to call them). The basic 3 part GH series, 35% h2o2 and PH down are all I keep stocked.

Cheers

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yup no magic sauce here ether i stock as you do. i also dont waste my ph down ether on a flush and here one of my ladies one week in my lazy flush and she looks good to me anyway happy growing man. here you go autumn i happen to love my grow there is the work of a lazy man

Hello friend. I have written several articles on this topic for magazines. There is differing views depending on which grower you talk to. In my professional opinion it is advisable to stop with all nutrients and only use tap water, without pH correction, a week before harvesting. This forces the plant to use up all its nutrient reserves, considerably improving the sweetness and taste. As you are using only tap water, pH correction is unnecessary. The pH is a measure of the acidity or the alkalinity of the solution. Normally the pH ranges from 0 to 14. A low pH (lower than 7) means that a solution is acidic. Pure water has a pH of around 7 which is neutral. Higher than 7 is called alkaline. Acidic solutions can be neutralised with alkaline solutions and vice versa. Too acidic is fatal for any plant and so is too alkaline. One of the causes is that the nutrients change into a, for the plant, unabsorbable form when the pH becomes too high or low.

Hope this helps.

I have a suspicion that the amount of flushing required has something to do with the PPM levels maintained throughout.
People who get away without flushing probably have less concentration of nutes stored up in the plants than those that have to flush. It can also depend on the actual nutes used too. Lots of factors, This is just my opinion though.

I'm tempted to argue out 'taste and sweetness' are uneffected by flushing… but I won't. There are enough threads containing that debate already. Its in my humble opinion that a wise grower should research and experiment on his own, do double blind 'taste test' with your buddies, etc. Try to draw your own conclusions. The last thing you want to do is just blindly follow the advise of conventional wisdom and grow books without testing them… but if you do, be sure to remove those rusty nails from the stocks before flushing

lol not u pdillo, and i wasnt mad i was just saying. i thought the whole thing was kinda funny.

but i really dont see how asking professionals hurts. they said that using florakleen would help but isnt needed. and im sure thats the case, and i didnt mean to sound like i was arguing for florakleen. i was just saying that they recommended ph'ing the water. they had reason for it, i dont remember what the reasons where, but the conclusion was it makes it easyer for the plant to get rid of the salts and it made since.