Fire in the hole! 15 Timewreck super soil pheno hunt

Herb Man

Well-Known Member
I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me then, or maybe I was hallucinating...

But of course you know everything, so I have to be wrong.
It's the natural process the plant follows it grows then at the end of the process it delivers the goods (bud) before winters comes.

So the plant thinks the cold weather is coming in, and does what plants generally do at this point, their leaves yellow and drop.

This is the normal course of a seasonal plant and helps the grower identify when the bud is at its ripest.



100% ORGANIC, and they look pretty damn green to me. Right before harvest btw.
A lot of those bus are showing fresh pistils and have more grow in them. The ripest ones have large empty spaces where there were once leaves.
 

ReefBongwell

Well-Known Member
I see where both of y'all are coming from... and I may hold off on harvesting some of those... but my plants look more mature than when subcool harvests his, and he's the maker of this strain... if you look at his latest vid weed nerd 137 he shows off a couple of timewrecks, all with plenty of white hairs still left (huge ass mofos of course thanks to his multi-K room). Pretty sure my TWs buds are fuller with fewer white hairs than his from that vid he said he was planning on chopping in a day or two. His buds were like twice the width of mine though :) His did have some yellowing but guessing that is as much running out of N as anything.

I have a couple of timewrecks that are almost identical... may pull one next week if I really feel it's done enough... maybe i'll put sincerely in remote control on the other one and see how it ends up ;)
 

Txchilies

Well-Known Member
Reef, following Sub's comments on his Timewrecks, Prospect checked the Trichs just to make sure. I've followed this adage all along, check your Trichs just to make sure. Your plants are looking Mighty Fine!
 

ReefBongwell

Well-Known Member
This is my TimeWreck that IS fading.. it's a different pheno than the rest, though there's another that's similar but not as floppy and didn't remind me of dongs. Notice the fade and swollen buds -- so what do you think on this one Sincerely. The buds are smaller than they look in the pics, but pretty compact (not as compact as og kush nugs tho)... i'm guessing the weight is about the same as some of the bigger budded but less dense phenos. The buds haven't swollen noticeably that I can tell since it started yellowing... it has gotten more 'mature' looking though... i really should've done a scope check for ambers when I had it out for these pics earlier.. maybe tomorrow.
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This is a lower TimeWreck apple jacks pheno nug I took... probably only about a g once dried :(
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This is a Chocolate Chunkey Monkey branch I cut off my the only fading CCM (which has more white hairs at the top than some of the ones not fading). Expecting this to end up 5-7g dried - we'll see
ccm1.jpg
ccm1z2.jpg
ccm1z.jpg
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Think that lass could be approaching that harvest window if not all ready in it :joint:
So another 7-10 maybe? How long has she been flowering?
 

ReefBongwell

Well-Known Member
I believe today is day 55 or 56 for her. Yeah I think she's in the window... I need to check trichs and see if I can find ambers if it's got enough then time to pull but I'm guessing one more week. Don't see any reason not to go another week if I don't find ambers... I got enough buds dry or drying to carry me through the week for sure. There are a few people who are waiting to get their hands on some but we've waited this long we can wait another week ;) I think I'm gonna be a little disappointed on her yield -- I expected her to swell up quite a bit more but she just never did... unless she's just way denser than I expect when I harvest her I think I'm only gonna get about 2.5-3.5 off of her. Hope I'm wrong and it's higher or that she puts on a lil extra wait this week. I won't be too disappointed if she's at least over 3 I guess :) 2z per plant avg is my minimum I need to really call it a successful run... 3z/avg I will call it a VERY successful run... 4z+ it's bumper crop time. I dream of 4z+/avg but that seems like too much to expect based on having too many smaller plants... i'm thinking i'm gonna end up with several 4-5s, mostly 2.5 - 3.5s, and then maybe 2 or 3 in the 1.5-2.5 range of the smaller ones with fewer colas. I'd have to have several 5-6z beasts in the end to balance out the smaller plants and get the average up to 4... i think probably there's only 4 or 5 i'd say got a chance of going above 4z and even that may be just dreaming none may hit 5. I didn't expect when I started to really have any 5s but I gotta say I will be at least a bit disappointed if at least one doesn't based on the size/# of colas... i only gotta have one that hits half/z per main cola to hit 5.

Longer term goal is within 1-2 runs having pretty much everything averaging 4z as a minimum :)

This grow has gone PRETTY well... there are still many ways I can improve and further dial it in I've had a lot of environmental issues though not as severe as before I gotta get proper temp control... shit just going to sub's super soil formula next time over my hodgepodge mix this time may provide a lot of benefits. I could probably sit down and make a list of over 10 things I could improve next time easily :)

Starting next week I'm going to be harvesting plants every few days probably for the next month :) That's a nice thought... except for thinking about the trimming... but I got a trimmer who's gonna do almost all of it for me so can't complain!!
 

Sincerely420

New Member

^^You see those little yellow folds?! The pistils that haven't quite flown out yet?! Keep and eye on those bro.
Watch what they do. I've noticed that from those spots come new calyxs and new growth when you see them..
See what this on looks like tomorrow. IT might be covered in yellow again! That's when you know you're going thru a lil spurt.

Feeling the aspirations tho bro, I can def. relate.
Looks to me like its been a successful grow bro! 2.5 per, at how many plants you got, that's gonna be a nice yield :clap:
 

ReefBongwell

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah that's right :) Explains why I start getting the DTs when I'm away from my grow room for too long.

That's just a joke. I'm NEVER gone too long. Never more than 12 hours actually ;)
 

Californicater

Active Member
What is this hole in me... that no matter how much it is, I don't think it'll ever be enough :)
I call that hole my lungs, I cannot fill them with enough smoke. I look at weed jars like most Americans perceive food; I immediately assume I can consume the whole thing effortlessly. And once its gone there is self loathing, regret, and an immediate need for a nap :weed:
 

Shawns

Active Member
Hey Reef just my 2 cents on this staying green thing. If you give your plant too much N it will not run out. Try it out with one plant add a bunch of N to your super soil when you transplant and see what happens. For a plant to finish properly it has to use up all the nutrients in the soil, this is why you have to flush your plants for 2 weeks when not using organics. I guess the short answer is Yes you can put too much N , P or K in your soil, if you were to add N with only a few weeks of flower left the plant would stay green
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Hey Reef just my 2 cents on this staying green thing. If you give your plant too much N it will not run out. Try it out with one plant add a bunch of N to your super soil when you transplant and see what happens. For a plant to finish properly it has to use up all the nutrients in the soil, this is why you have to flush your plants for 2 weeks when not using organics. I guess the short answer is Yes you can put too much N , P or K in your soil, if you were to add N with only a few weeks of flower left the plant would stay green

That is not why you flush. The reason to flush is to rid the plant of inorganic salt build up which is caused usuallly by synthetics or chems and too much epsom salts. A healthy plant is green all the way through the end. Any yellowing is a deficiency. With organics, having a proper balance of nutrients and microbials. Flushing is not needed.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
"A healthy plant is green all the way through the end. Any yellowing is a deficiency"
It's natural for a plant to yellow at the end . Cannabis isn't an evergreen bro.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4531.html

How do you think it's be possible to keep an organic plant green all the way thru, when the plants effectively reject N in the end?
Any yellowing is a def. but that's natural in the end. Not a sign of a prob.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly: Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem. Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem. Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Trans-location:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can’t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.
 

Sincerely420

New Member
Here's a little more info also:

http://mjgrowers.com/book_lets_research.htm

In organics, the nutes get immobilized within microbes in the soil. In synthetics, those same nutes can be stored in the leaves as they're aren't immobilized. They can also be flushed outta the soil as they won't be retained by the microbes. Anything that you give you plants that's chemical will wash right on thru, if not used by your plants on it's way to the bottom of the pot!
 
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