first closet grow with UFO

la9 said:

No the problem is you can not find any flaws with your grow light yet it is not successful at flowering, so flower with it and let us know the answer.

If I say it doesn't have enough penetration, you say it does, I don't know what I'm talking about.

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why do you think there isn't enough penetration? Have you used a PAR Photon Flux meter far below the canopy to measure penetration? A photon is a photon is a photon, whether generated by HPS lighting or LED, each photon at a specific wavelength will penetrate just as well as the next one.

If I say it isn't bright enough, you say it is I don't know what I'm talking about.

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define "bright"

If I say it doesn't have enough of the right spectrum, you say it does I don't know what I'm talking about.

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I think this is where you may be right. I don't think 2 wavelength peaks is enough spectrum to affect all of the chemical processes necessary for photosynthesis. This is why I propose multiple spectrum LEDs with wavelengths that will activate both chlorophyll a and b, as well as beta carotene, phycoerythin and phycocyanin.

If it has everything it needs to flower then why is it no good at flowering ?

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we know the current systems do not have everything it needs to flower, hence the need for more research.

You can find no flaws in your UFO light then it should flower without any problems. Show us that it is good at flowering then.

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There are flaws with UFO and Procyon light systems. But why assume it's an inherent problem with LED lighting instead of something else lacking in the very narrow bandwidth provided by just 2 peak wavelengths that most LED lights use?

from the bible "deep blue, encourages excellent leaf and stem growth. light blue, encourages good leaf and stem growth. neutral white, promotes normal growth. warm neutral, promotes rapid growth. warmer yellow neutral, highly active photosynthesis for all stages of growth. hot orange or red, promotes flowering."

mindphuk said:

Not just in theory but in actual practice, all HPS produce enough PAR to flower, it's proven everyday. So yes, supplemental HPS will help for sure, but my point is I think it is at least theoretically possible to get as much energy in the right wavelengths to grow with LED only to match or even surpass HPS lighting for much lower electricity costs. There is an instrument that measures photon flux density and LEDs can produce a surprising amount of energy, it's merely compressed into very small peaks along the EM spectrum. The key is going to be getting the right number at the right spectrums which is where we need the research.
Imagine those pure infrared LEDs, the ones used for night vision. The lumens on those is virtually zero, we cannot see those LEDs illuminate. However, using IR detectors in your regular digital camera, those suckers light up like Christmas trees. So lets say our plants need more near IR wavelength, the lumens will be very low so the light will be dim to our eyes, but if the plant can utilize the energy in that wavelength, the lumens don't matter one bit. This is where la9 was just not getting it. LEDs work, we just have to find the correct combination for OUR plants.

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I enjoy reading your information regarding lighting. In your oppinion whats the best brand 600hps? and ?#2 is, I use a Lowes 400MH for veg. It costs $20 and seems to work, whats your oppinion? Thanks

Have you resurched fiber optic grow tech?

charlestonchunk said:

I enjoy reading your information regarding lighting. In your oppinion whats the best brand 600hps? and ?#2 is, I use a Lowes 400MH for veg. It costs $20 and seems to work, whats your oppinion? Thanks

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I don't have enough experience yet with lights to know any differences but I have heard good things about agrosun and hortilux, although you pay a premium for them, if they increase yield enough, they pay for themselves.
Right now for vegging I'm using a 250w HQI (german double ended) MH with a PFO reflector. The HQI bulbs appear to outperform standard mogul base, but again, my experience is with reef aquaria, not horticulture.
Here's an article showing some of the bulbs and reflector combos that should give you a good idea of what I'm talking about
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/review

dude, maybe you should learn a little about growing indoors! the whole point is basically to veg and start flowring within a month unless your topping. . anything more and the plant would be too big and out of control if your doing the job right!

waldocat420 said:

dude, maybe you should learn a little about growing indoors! the whole point is basically to veg and start flowring within a month unless your topping. . anything more and the plant would be too big and out of control if your doing the job right!

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ur an idoit, theres no outline for growing indoors and it doesnt really matter when u have about 8 to 10 ft to grow in...i can guarantee i can veg for another month and still have enough room to flower all of them in there...shut ur mouth when u dont kno what ur talking about

Wow. I haven't been a member long but all this flack flying at some dude who is just running an experiment and sharing his results seems unwarranted.

Everyone thinks they know everything until someone discovers a new way. I guarantee that all you guys spouting off about all the shit you have learned about light spectrum and why LEDs WON'T work learned all that from someone ELSE's results. You should be actively supporting this dude for going out on a limb and saving you the $ and trouble.

Kudos man. I await the results and wish you would just run the UFO the whole time.

Jsizzle said:

Wow. I haven't been a member long but all this flack flying at some dude who is just running an experiment and sharing his results seems unwarranted.

Everyone thinks they know everything until someone discovers a new way. I guarantee that all you guys spouting off about all the shit you have learned about light spectrum and why LEDs WON'T work learned all that from someone ELSE's results. You should be actively supporting this dude for going out on a limb and saving you the $ and trouble.

Kudos man. I await the results and wish you would just run the UFO the whole time.

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thanks, check out my GDP closet in my sig if u wanna see strictly UFO

I have 1 of those 225 led lights off ebay. they actually are great for germination and getting the stem long enough to put rock wool at the bottom of the net pots. I have a 10 inch net pot and it is important to have the rock wool as close to bottom of grow media as possable. the holes in net pot will allow the roots something to hold to when the plant is heavy with the fruit. with that 225 led bulb i have measured up to a 3 inch growth in stem a day. in seven days i had 100% in a 4 seed start and the hydroton is filled upto the top of the holes on net pot in just 8 days.

Seems like a lot of debate over LED's is going on. I am about to finish flowering a grow where I have a HPS and UFO light next to each other. The buds under the LED look not to bad but there is not a lot of them, the buds under HPS look like a giant mass of bud. I put 48w LED panels on the side of the budding area and it seems to have made the budding zone more thick.

marchold said:

Seems like a lot of debate over LED's is going on. I am about to finish flowering a grow where I have a HPS and UFO light next to each other. The buds under the LED look not to bad but there is not a lot of them, the buds under HPS look like a giant mass of bud. I put 48w LED panels on the side of the budding area and it seems to have made the budding zone more thick.

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i truely believe that led has it's place in the box as well as hps , mh's. Only during budding i would put mostly red than blue for budding. i would put mostly blue during vegging. this cheap one seems to have a place in the germination process. I'm pleased with the difference it has made to the germination process.

gamebird65 said:

i truely believe that led has it's place in the box as well as hps , mh's. Only during budding i would put mostly red than blue for budding. i would put mostly blue during vegging. this cheap one seems to have a place in the germination process. I'm pleased with the difference it has made to the germination process.

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i have a few ideas on leds and propagation;

might it be possible to find a wavelength that promoted root growth

also could we provide a wavelength of light that would let plants grow but not some of the pathogens that kill clones and seedlings.

could we provide a wavelength to encourage pre flowering to help sex seedlings.

just some ideas. got any more?

I've witnessed a grow done entirely on LED light (600 watts of LED), two 300 watt led panels. It vegged fine (actually they looked incredibly healthy) however the buds were very small, hairy, and low in quality. My guess is LEDs do work, however the spectrum is VERY off. More than just blue and green LEDs are needed to approximate REAL SUNLIGHT. I myself use UFO's, however only as supplementary lighting to HID. Sure a plant needs tons of blue and red light, however what people fail to realize is that plants actually utilize other parts of the light spectrum for other chemical processes of photosynthesis. While red and blue are the main frequencies used, they are hardly the only ones required and utilized by plants. A few years from now, someone, or some company will wise up and start using 10-15 different frequencies instead of just blue and red. Why do you think the LED light is pink and HPS is amber? Because there are crucial parts of the spectrum missing from the LED lighting. Once more frequencies (or wavelengths if you will) are used, LEDs will take over as the superior form of indoor lighting (higher lumen output, lower heat, lower power consumption). I suspect there are a small number of people who realize this flaw and are already working on prototypes to better simulate HPS and real sunlight with LED lighting....the broadband light spectrum is the key.

I hardly think that it is the color of the light spectrum that causes hps to be better..... I want to think that certain plants are like pine trees...except the resin cycle is oposite......In summer the pine sap get heated up and flows down to fill roots......In winter it raises to the limbs to keep them green........other plants may be exact opposite that cycle......In other words the temps are not the same with the led lights and the hid's.........

it def has to do with the spectrum being off...cannabis takes more than just red and blue spectrum which most LED only use

littlegrower2004 said:

it def has to do with the spectrum being off...cannabis takes more than just red and blue spectrum which most LED only use

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what your saying is right there is more than red and blue spectrum....wouldn't it be nice to have all side walls out of led for the spectrums available and a less expensive light for the spectrums that's missing? less heat for better security......i'm working on a wall lined led light system and hope it work's out... I got great hopes for the perfect set up......

Just thought I'd direct some LED attention to HTGsupply's Gen3 UFO. Worth checking out. I'm hoping us UFO owners can convert to correct spectrum.

jointchief said:

Just thought I'd direct some LED attention to HTGsupply's Gen3 UFO. Worth checking out. I'm hoping us UFO owners can convert to correct spectrum.

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The led lights as a supplement with cfl's is my project..I want to stay out of the high heat lights for security reasons. I already see broader leaves with the dual lights. I already see more healthier in appearance in thew plants. I already see more stealthier grows using led and cfl's versus just cfl's.maybe u will see the points i was making about the led's as an addition to lower heat lights will produce a better quality bud aswell as thicker fuller buds.