First grow-General organics in topsoil-Humus?

A foaf of mine is beginning his first serious attempt at growing and is hoping that if there are any glaring holes in his plan you folks can help nip them in the bud(teehee) before planting.

The setup is as follows
600w mh conversion for veg, 600w hps for flower

The grow space is an entire basement, with the grow space sectioned off with curtains to reflect light without hindering ventilation, expandable as the plants grow

Without an ociliating fan(which is on the way) air temps are 20c at night, around 28c during the day after the lights been on awhile

Humidy sits around 70 without the dehumidifier turned on, so it can be adjusted to optimal levels

6 plants in 3 gal pots, 3 feminized trainwreck(started in their own 3gals to avoid transplant stress) and a handful of bag seed (3 per remaining pot, eventually pulling all but the strongest female per pot, with a corrogated plastic divider minimizing the chance of root systems intermingling.

His nutes and soil are what's causing the most concern.
While he did obtain the General organics go box on amazon he's canadian and living in a small community so hydro shops and any high grade soils like fox farm are nearly impossible to find.
As a medium he's mixed roughly 65% topsoil and 35% vermiculite, while the packaging wasn't specific as to its composition the resulting acidity lead him to believe it was partially peat based, this was remedied with 1tbs dolomite lime per gallon of soil, a 2-1 flush with ph6.8 water and some patience.

Finally, he's taken his time to be careful, purchased a proper light and nutes and dialed in the soil, but recent reading has him worried that without some form of compost he wont have enough microorganisms to process organic nutes into forms the plant can use, and that maybe careful watering might not be enough to save his roots from notoriously heavy top soil.(a garden sprayer for lighter watering maybe???)

He has access to humus derived from horse manure and can go to the extra time and expense to collect, pasteurize and work it into the soil for the micro, but would that really be necessary or is he just over-thinking a process he doesn't fully understand? Would the micro-organisms be fed/created/sustained/whatever using the just the full general organics line in my current mix?
The top soil is very dark, earthy with the rare stick fragment and had a small amount of vermiculite or perlite worked into it pre amendments, do you think that could sustain healthy plants without any more amendments? Any other tips?

/End of chapter 1

While this is a new experience, the amount of reading done and money spent made me think this may be a better place to post the question than newbie central, that could easily be arrogance so if you folks think i'd be better of there i'll re-post the thread.

Here are a few quick pointers:

- Not living near a hydro shop is not a problem, it's a blessing in disguise. You will end up saving piles of money and not buying all kinds of overpriced bottled crap you don't need. Your local nursery, farm supply, and hardware store likely have everything you need, and their staff likely know a WHOLE lot more about organic gardening.

- That "top soil" worries me a little bit. Top soil is usually some variation of a loam (roughly equal parts sand, silt, and clay). Loams aren't very well suited for container gardening. You want something that is largely composed of peat moss (or coco coir) and compost/humus. Maybe "top soil" means something different in Canada. If the top soil is already in there, maybe add about 25% peat moss and some extra perlite to "lighten" the mix.

- You NEED some sort of humus in there. Ideally your mix should be 20-30% compost (or other humus source like worm castings). Manure is not humus unless it's fully composted. Look for "compost", "earthworm castings", or "forest humus" at your local nursery, hardware store, or landscape supply.

- You don't want to pasteurize anything. You want to keep all those soil microbes alive and well.

- NEVER start more than one plant in one pot, unless we're talking about big, 15+ gallon "bed style" pots. There is no way a 3-gal pot will support three healthy plants until they are old enough to determine their sex.

- 3 gallons is pretty small or organic growing. I grow 4 plants at a time in 10 gallon pots under a 600 watt HPS. I suggest AT LEAST 5 gallon pots for organic gardening. You can start the bag seeds I'm the 3 gal pots until they are sexed, then transplant the females into 5 gallon pots for flowering.

- No need for a sprayer to water. When you water, water thoroughly until a few drips come out the drain holes. When the pots start to feel noticeably lighter (tip up one corner of the pot to feel it's heftiness), water thoroughly again. Repeat...

- You're going to need more nutrients, especially if you insist on the little 3-gal pots. Hit up your local nursery and look for some "all purpose" organic fertilizer. Look for N-P-K numbers that are roughly equal, like 5-5-5, for example. Mix this into your soil at about 2 tablespoons per gallon, and be prepared to add a little more to the soil surface ("top dress") if the plants start to show deficiencies.

That's all I got for now.

Good Luck!

-SpicySativa

The closest I have is a co-op garden center, and while i saw bone meal, they didnt seem to have guano, castings or any of the other ingredients i had seen mentioned for soil mixes, and the only brand name soil i could find was miracle grow and others mentioning "Slow release fertilzers" that i've read are best to avoid. After finding out how bad top soil can be i will be going back for another look, but the pickings were slim.

As for the humus source i mentioned its a family members farm, one of the larger pens on a hill is covered with manure that's been pulverized, turned(by the horses own movement) and fully decomposed over the last several years, the only reason i would need to pasturize would be to kill off any insect eggs. If done at a temperature of 140-170f the eggs are destroyed without sterilizing the compost. A lot of extra work yes, but with the lack of suitable fertilizer choices it may be my only option. (but i'll ask whats in the back on my next trip)

I was going to flower shortly after the 12" mark, so i thought using the 1 foot per gallon rule id be safe. While i would have liked to go a bit larger this time of the year i didnt have many options. ($20 a piece ornamental pots at the co-op, or 3 gal dollar store pots). I'll keep this in mind on my next trip and hope for some reason they received an out of season shipment.

The reason I was going with so many plants per pot is im trying to ensure a minimum of 6 females under one 600w hps, i imagine each in their own 3-5 gal would cover more than my light could handle. Any suggestions on achieving my goal?
If it's not possible i suppose i could just go with the feminized seeds, spend more time in veg and make a novice attempt at cloning when they're big enough.

I've read people saying they completed a grow with the go box with nutes left over, are you sure what i have wont cut it? and if so is there a reason i should look for an all purpose organic fert instead of more from general organics?

Thanks for all the suggestions, while you didn't put my mind to rest like i had hoped you probably saved me a few months of watching plants slowly whither and die.

A little pricey on amazon.ca, but if i can't find anything larger locally these should work right?
http://www.smartpots.com/Websites/smartpots/PhotoGallery/1971864/#5 - #10 Black Smart Pot.jpg?54074

I recommend plastic grow bags if on a budget and if you have cash and want the best hit up smart pots. If you go to lowes.com you can order everything to the store. You Canadians have a lowes nearby right? Hell they are everywhere were im from. Try sphagnum/coco coir mix about 5cf when you make a bale of peat moss and brick of coco, then mix in 1-2 Bags of eathworm castings, 25-50 lbs, mix in blood and bone meal at 4lbs each and then add 8 cups of dolomite lime, then if possible some form of espoma garden tone, maybe the starter plus I would say would be best then you should have a good mix to run w your general odganics and its all available at lowes. I did it myself but added a yon more stuff.

My recipe.
2 large bales of sphagnum peat moss 6cf $20
1 brick of coco coir $15
2 bags of perlite $8
1 large bag of vermiculite $10
5 lbs of fishbone meal $8
5lbs of high P bat quano $14
5lbs of feathermeal $5
10 cups of dolomite lime 40lbs for $10
10 cups of oystershell flour $7
10 cups greensand $7
2 cups kelp meal $10 5lb bag
2 cups alfalfa meal $7 5lb bag
1 cup azomite $7for 1llb
16 oz of roots oregonism $18
1/4 cup humic acid $7 5lb bag

Liquids
Botanicaire molasses $15 per gal
Alaska fish emulsion $15 per gal
Aloe vera juice $20 gal its better to buy a plant
Coconut milk, use 1 coconut for 20 gallons of water.

This is pretty much all I use now and im recently becoming happy. Ps never forget the power of foliar feeding . Combine w beneficial teas snd your golden.

I would suggest when you use your general organics to put it in a 5 gallon bucket and buy 2 air pumps from walmart for like $20, 20 foot of hose for $3 and 4 airstones for like $15. This will make your general organics nutes so much better. Mix it and bubble for 24-48 hrs. Itll supercharge your bottled nute which I strongly suggest to get away from. Just buy or start making your own nutes and compost to give you the best bang for your buck literally.

Shit really? I guess i am pretty green....damn I cant resist the bad puns, i have a sickness....

You answered just in time because im making a trip to buy some amendments and some peat based potting soil in the morning, and i was just going to grab some castings if available, with the lime i already have and the nutes i intend to use i thought the kelp and bone meals/guano may have been a bit too much for the plants. I guess i'll grab a bag of whatever organic ferts and amendments i can find, but i'm not overly optimistic.

As far as a lowes goes while we do have them in Canada, not in my area. the closest thing we have would be a home depot, which has an even worse selection than the co-op during the off season.

I appreciate the tips, ill let you know what i end up with.

ALittleHazey said:

The closest I have is a co-op garden center, and while i saw bone meal, they didnt seem to have guano, castings or any of the other ingredients i had seen mentioned for soil mixes, and the only brand name soil i could find was miracle grow and others mentioning "Slow release fertilzers" that i've read are best to avoid. After finding out how bad top soil can be i will be going back for another look, but the pickings were slim.

As for the humus source i mentioned its a family members farm, one of the larger pens on a hill is covered with manure that's been pulverized, turned(by the horses own movement) and fully decomposed over the last several years, the only reason i would need to pasturize would be to kill off any insect eggs. If done at a temperature of 140-170f the eggs are destroyed without sterilizing the compost. A lot of extra work yes, but with the lack of suitable fertilizer choices it may be my only option. (but i'll ask whats in the back on my next trip)

I was going to flower shortly after the 12" mark, so i thought using the 1 foot per gallon rule id be safe. While i would have liked to go a bit larger this time of the year i didnt have many options. ($20 a piece ornamental pots at the co-op, or 3 gal dollar store pots). I'll keep this in mind on my next trip and hope for some reason they received an out of season shipment.

The reason I was going with so many plants per pot is im trying to ensure a minimum of 6 females under one 600w hps, i imagine each in their own 3-5 gal would cover more than my light could handle. Any suggestions on achieving my goal?
If it's not possible i suppose i could just go with the feminized seeds, spend more time in veg and make a novice attempt at cloning when they're big enough.

I've read people saying they completed a grow with the go box with nutes left over, are you sure what i have wont cut it? and if so is there a reason i should look for an all purpose organic fert instead of more from general organics?

Thanks for all the suggestions, while you didn't put my mind to rest like i had hoped you probably saved me a few months of watching plants slowly whither and die.

Click to expand...

So basically were in the same boat. I actually spent a rough total of 250-300$ on my organic soil subcools. I ordered everything off amazon cost me 230$ to get azomite,rock phosphate, worm castings, Roots Organics potting soil ( has coco fibers and mychorrizea also high in micros),bat guano,humic acid (leonardite), steamed bone meal, and blood meal. Then i picked up Epsom Salt and Garden Lime/dolomite up at my local hardware store for pretty cheap. But ya If you want the links to check it all out on amazon or need a recipe link lemme know. But i live in a place with no stores that sell anything remotely to what i need. But everything but the soil,wormcasting,bone/blood meal and guano i wont need to buy for awhile since i got 2lbs of all the smaller ingredients that only require like a couple tblespoons

Hell yeah. This is a great community. Everyone helps each other and your end product will be a result of good hard earned work. Its like going to college trying to figure these out. Im still learning but stay focused and if you ever feel puzzled dont stress it someone on here has your answer.