First Grow - Need Advice - Images Included

looks awesome, hell of a lot better than my first go with bagseed!

Yea, I kinda fucked everything up since my last post. I'm too blown to even take pictures right now - that and the new double rubber-maid box setup is a pain in the ass to take on and off to take pictures.

So after my last post, I was convinced that I had done LST'ing wrong, so I cut the zip ties. I then topped the plant and transplanted the plant to a slightly larger pot. I think I really shocked the plant because now, I have fucking little brown holes in some of my fan leaves, some fan leaves tips are turning brown man. Just so blown right now. Showing no new signs of growth from topping.. My beautiful little plant now looks like shit.

Shoulda just left it fucking alone and let it do its thing. But I wanted to start LST'ing before the stalk got bigger, I wanted to top to learn how that worked and apparently I've done it wrong because I see no signs of new growth at all, only a little black spot from where I topped it.

Huge disapointment with myself at this point. Just gonna leave it in the box for a while and see what happens as I really have no other choice.

Here's some pictures.

Don't fret, dude. They are super resilient plants, and can recover from just about anything.

The black spot where you topped is normal, but it'll be at least a week before you see any new growth sprouting from the area that was topped.

You are right, though. If you feel overwhelmed with all the available techniques you can try when growing marijuana, and since this is your first attempt, it's ok to just let it grow and watch what happens. You'll learn a lot just by completing a grow from seed to harvest.

My advice is not to panic, and be patient with her. My last grow took around 4 months from start to finish.

This is a couple of pics from my first grow a few years ago.

It isn't too clear, but you'll see how I LST'd my two plants. The intention is to 'flatten' the plants because CFLs have poor penetration through the canopy, so that the lower nodes see more light than they would if the plant was growing 'naturally.' It doesn't have to be a work of art, the plant just needs to be spread horizontally.

Ahhh, OK. I see you used the wire from like a bag of bread to tie them down. I took off my zip ties because they are really tough plastic and it looked like it was starting to cut into the main stem, so I just took them off. Crazy thing is even after just having it bent *slightly* (I had hardly any tension on it) the plant took to it and there is a bend in my main stalk now, even after removing it. I think I'm going to use copper wire the next time I try to LST, like electrical grade copper wire, it's very smooth.

Learning a lot from my mistakes, next grow will be much better. I took a look at the plant today and I can't see any more brown tips, just what was already there.

A few questions, for flowering what type of CFL should I use? I know a 2700K but what about the actual watts and lumens? I have some 2700k's but they are 10w / 500 lumen -- seems very weak. Can I use those? And now since I topped my main top, how would I go about LST'ing? Just wait for the new growths and tie them down? I think I waited too long to LST this plant because there's so many branches coming off of it but I need to learn how to do it. And also, should I cut off the browned tips? What should I do about those brown tips?

Thing with LST that confuses me is, if you're pulling the plant down to allow for more light to hit the stem, then only 1 side of that stem is going to get light, the other side will be pulled down and facing the soil, giving it zero light - just seems very counterproductive if you're looking for high yields you're essentially only using 50% of the plant. Thats why I think I've waited too long to LST. It shoulda been started much earlier so the plant would have a more "flat look" instead of just pulling the plant down.

Yeah, that was my bad - I think I said zip ties instead of cable ties.

For flowering, you're right about the spectrum of the bulbs. 2700k is what you should be using, although people suggest you throw in a few 6400k as well; a 3:1 ratio of 2700k and 6400k. The general rule of thumb is to have 100w (actual) over/around the plant during flower, so you could use 10w bulbs, you would just need a barrel full of them. If you can afford it, grab some bigger bulbs (as many as you can afford) and make sure you have sufficient cooling in your grow area.

It is true that when you LST, it seems like you plunge half the plant into darkness, but after a few days, the growth that was down near the soil starts growing up towards the light. It's really hard to explain - you just need to try it during one of your grows, and you'll see how it works. It's also an ongoing process, which takes time to take effect. The first bend makes the plant look really weird, then after 3-4 days you'll need to tie and bend some new growth (as well as existing growth that is no longer level with the top of the canopy). You'll see how/where new growth forms and reacts to the shape of the main stem.

The problems I faced during my first attempts were negligible, and I was as apprehensive as you. I was also impatient, and I would check the plants every few hours for signs of growth/improvement. When I say it'll be 3-4 days before you see any significant changes, I mean it will take 3-4 days, not 3-4 hours. Be patient and brave, brother. The main cause of death to a plant isn't LSTing or Topping, it's over feeding/watering or nute lockout.

All that being said, it might be wise just to get a completed standard grow under your belt before you try any wacky growing techniques.

SunnyJim said:

Yeah, that was my bad - I think I said zip ties instead of cable ties.

For flowering, you're right about the spectrum of the bulbs. 2700k is what you should be using, although people suggest you throw in a few 6400k as well; a 3:1 ratio of 2700k and 6400k. The general rule of thumb is to have 100w (actual) over/around the plant during flower, so you could use 10w bulbs, you would just need a barrel full of them. If you can afford it, grab some bigger bulbs (as many as you can afford) and make sure you have sufficient cooling in your grow area.

It is true that when you LST, it seems like you plunge half the plant into darkness, but after a few days, the growth that was down near the soil starts growing up towards the light. It's really hard to explain - you just need to try it during one of your grows, and you'll see how it works. It's also an ongoing process, which takes time to take effect. The first bend makes the plant look really weird, then after 3-4 days you'll need to tie and bend some new growth (as well as existing growth that is no longer level with the top of the canopy). You'll see how/where new growth forms and reacts to the shape of the main stem.

The problems I faced during my first attempts were negligible, and I was as apprehensive as you. I was also impatient, and I would check the plants every few hours for signs of growth/improvement. When I say it'll be 3-4 days before you see any significant changes, I mean it will take 3-4 days, not 3-4 hours. Be patient and brave, brother. The main cause of death to a plant isn't LSTing or Topping, it's over feeding/watering or nute lockout.

All that being said, it might be wise just to get a completed standard grow under your belt before you try any wacky growing techniques.

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Yeah man, I agree. I was going to just let this plant do it's thing from seed to harvest -- so I could see how it naturally grows, and then move on to LST'ing and topping. But I just want to learn how to do this so I know. I've taken great interest in growing and I just want to learn learn learn everything I can. I guess I got impatient and wanted to just fuck with the plant. Dumb move. But I learned from it so, s'all good.

What should I do about the browning tips? I did a little reading I think I burned it a bit when I transplanted with some fresh MG potting soil. Too much nitrogen I think is what happened. I've read I should do a flush but I do not want to flush MG soil because I've read if I overwater using this MG soil then all those nitrogen time release balls will pop and it'll be bad. This also has me worried for when I go to harvest, I need to flush before I harvest but afraid all those nitrogen balls will pop. Can't wait to get some better soil to use.

I was afraid these bulbs would be too weak. I'll think of something, plan on going 12/12 in a week. I figure I'll give the plant some time to recover from my mutilation.

Took a look at the plant today and it looks terrible. Shoulda never transplanted it. The lower leaves are yellowing, there's tiny brown spots all over the lower leaves, leaves are drooping badly. Pretty sure it's dieing slowly, working it's way up from the bottom. Maybe it was something in the soil I added. Did some reading and I mean.. it could be so many different things man, it's impossible for me to figure out what it is. Kicking myself in the ass so hard right now.

Oh well, I learned a lot. Thanks to everyone who provided me with advice. I'll update if anything changes for the better, but other than that - I'm outty!

Thanks a lot Jim, you're alright in my book.

Post some pics man! Plants can come back from a lot so don't lose hope.

Sorry if the pics are blurry man, I can't ever get my camera to focus very good at up close objects.

You can't see it in the pictures but the leafs have little tiny brown spots all over them, the bottoms look fine to me, it's just the tops.

Found a rolly-polly looking bug in the soil, got it out and killed it but hell there's probably more. Burned a fan leaf putting the rubbermaid top back on it, man it just keeps getting better!



Thats the rolly-polly looking bug I found, the horns are his head - he was walking in that direction.

So at this point I'm guessing my problem is some sort of bug in the new soil I added during the transplant, with the added shock of the transplant itself along with the shock from topping. Followed with possible nute burn from using fresh MG potting soil. The original MG potting soil I used from seedling had been sitting in a air tight bag outside for quite some time, so I'm thinking that original bag had some time to 'cool off' and thats why I didn't really have any problems with it, up until now. I had a fresh bag of MG potting soil available because the folks here are planting flowers outside and that's what they use is MG. I shouldn't have used that shit.

Also, when I transplanted, there was no rootball at all, the damn soil pretty much broke up in my hands when I was transplanting -- it held some of it's form but it was nothing like I've seen pictures of, realizing this when I was transplanting I planted offset, I didn't get the plant centered in the pot. That annoys me, OCD wants me to reset that plant in the middle, hah.

This is all new to me so I'm trying to diagnose based on what I've read online, I have no friends that grow IRL -- so all of my knowledge is based from googling issues. I hope it can recover, but like I said before -- it could be so many different things causing the issue. I would just flush and call it a day, but I'm scared to flush using MG soil, I'm afraid the time release nutes would all pop with all the water. I'm not even sure if thats how it works, I read it somewhere.

On the brightside, I did see 2 new little growths where I topped. I just hope it can recover.

OopsCake said:

Post some pics man! Plants can come back from a lot so don't lose hope.

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Hope can drive a man crazy, I was told that once.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. I plan on this plant dieing, so if it recovers I can piss myself with joy.

I don't want to give you false hope, but it doesn't look to me like it's knocking on death's door quite yet. I've seen plants in much worse condition make full recoveries.

Like you, I was alone in the hobby growing game IRL, so I did a shit ton of reading on these forums before I got started. I'm afraid I can't really help you with your soil issues because I built a hydro setup for my grow. I follow a simple recipe of pH'd water and nutrients on a specific schedule, and as long as I don't deviate from it, my plants usually do ok.

Maybe start a new thread in the "Plant Problems" section detailing what's going wrong with your plant. I'm sure someone will be able to help.

Figured out what caused those brown/rust looking spots. Burn from my CFL's. So dumb. I've gotta make a new light fixture. Such a rookie mistake. I was trying to make an adjustable height fixture so I used zip ties attached to some pvc. But it's not working out to good, all the bulbs are at different heights and yeah, I didn't realize it but the first couple days after I installed the new top, my plants were being burned the whole damn time.

Is the first set of leaves supposed to die off? Not the very small ones that you first get from sprouting, I mean the ones that grow after that, the bigger ones - not fan leaves. Thats the leaves that are turning yellow on the very bottom.

Yeah, loads of growth near the bottom of the plant will yellow and die off. As the plant grows, less light will reach the base of the plant.

It's good that you've isolated the problem which was causing the browning of the leaves.

As for light proximity, place your hand (palm-side down) about 6 inches under each bulb. Slowly move your hand up towards the bulb. Once the top of your hand gets fairly warm from the heat of the bulb, that's about the distance you should keep the bulbs from the top of the plant. Too hot for your hand = too hot for the plant.

SunnyJim said:

Yeah, loads of growth near the bottom of the plant will yellow and die off. As the plant grows, less light will reach the base of the plant.

It's good that you've isolated the problem which was causing the browning of the leaves.

As for light proximity, place your hand (palm-side down) about 6 inches under each bulb. Slowly move your hand up towards the bulb. Once the top of your hand gets fairly warm from the heat of the bulb, that's about the distance you should keep the bulbs from the top of the plant. Too hot for your hand = too hot for the plant.

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Yeah man, I've been going with the hand test thing. I just can't do that with the 2nd rubbermaid box on top. I have to eyeball it from the top, looking down into the box thru the exhaust hole.. it's a pain in the ass with the 2nd box on there.

That's good to know about the yellowing. So my plant is OK... kinda. It's just burnt like hell all over it. I think the box is too hot and I may have hot spots because I'm using different tape on the top box and also a different exhaust fan that I thought was better, but it's not. I'll be fixing it all tomorrow.

Crazy how much she is burned right now man.. makes me sad, she was so gorgeous. It's my own fault... I added the 2nd box when I really wasn't ready, I didn't have the right materials for the upper half yet and I rushed it. S'all good, live and learn.

I really need to go to 12/12 soon, probably sometime this week. I'm running out of grow space since I didn't properly LST... wondering if it's too late for me to LST. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

The 2 new growths from the top are getting bigger and bigger, makes me smile. Very cool. It's taking a while for them to grow though, they are still fairly small and have taken.. what has it been 3 days now?

I'm rambling.

I hear you, dude. First grows are all about 'coulda woulda shoulda's.' But each time you balls something up, you remember not to do it again next time around. Like a slapped-wrist, although hurting your plant is way more painful..

Definitely try to manage the heat in the box. High temps (anything over 95) are lethal. PC fans work great, and they're really cheap. I hooked a couple up to old phone chargers.

It's never too late to LST in my book, although the thicker the branches get, the harder it is to bend them without snapping them off. Young growth is more malleable than the established stuff, so most growers tend to start LSTing their plant early. Just be gentle. If you snap a branch, make a splint and it'll form a knuckle and recover.

Everything takes time, though. Kind of feels like every day is the night before Christmas and I'm 7 years old again. The wait can be agonising, but it gets easier with every completed grow.

Been a while since I posted. Plants looking alright I suppose, alot of the bottom leaves have died or are still dying, lots of yellow/brown down there. My 2 new tops are stretched pretty badly I think I had the light too far away (moved the lights away after burning the plant but also changed the exhaust fan to a much stronger one and added 2 fans inside box) I'll post pics tomorrow or tonight. I plan on going 12/12 with it tomorrow, it's been 32 days in veg now. I wanted to go 12/12 a few days ago but I didn't have all the materials I needed to make the carbon filter, but now I do. Hoping this stretching is not too bad.

I was looking at this http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-FLCDG125D-125-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B001UV6P9I/ref=sr_1_8?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1369568925&sr=1-8 to take care of my lighting problem. Do you guys think this would be sufficient for a 1 plant grow box?

Said screw it, here's some pics before I take off for work. Let me know what you guys think.

Am I right in thinking that's a 6400k (daylight) bulb? It'll do for vegging, but I use two of those during veg and two of the 2700k during flower for my single plant, although admittedly I don't have a reflector (just a ghetto one I built myself).

The plant looks ok. You can pull the dead leaves off as they're no use to the plant any more. I count a good few tops on her, so with the right lighting, you could get a decent yield for your first grow. Keep it up, dude.