First grow. "Opium" clones in soil, 400w MH/HPS. Comments/advice welcome

Ok, so I've finally managed to get some pictures, so it's time to start the journal.

First, the grow area and equipment. I have an entire bedroom and walk in closet to play with, but at the moment I'm just using the closet (with the doors left open). Once the plants start getting bigger I plan to move them out into the room, but I'm going to have to build some sort of grow platform and add a few supplementary lights before that happens. I'm currently using a 400w HID light and have both a MH and HPS light for it (MH in for vegging). I'm using a standard house fan to provide cooling and air circulation, and I'm using buckets of water and damp towels hung in the closet to raise the humidity. At this point there is no odor control or exhaust system because the grow is small enough for the space that I don't think I'll need to worry about them much.

Now, on to the plants, soil and nutes. I'm using a mix of FF soil with some perlite tossed in as well as a small layer of hydroton on the bottom of the pots to help with water. The pots are 5 gallon, with about 3-4 gallons actually being filled with soil. The plants are clones from an "opium" strain mother, and there are 6 of them. I haven't actually started using any nutes yet, but I have all the FF nutes and plan to pick up some items that were suggested in Uncle Bens growing thread and do 4 plants using FF and the other 2 using the other stuff as a comparison grow (mostly to prove to my clone supplier/caregiver that FF isn't the holy grail of fertilizer systems). I'm using an 18/6 schedule for vegging.


As of today the plants have been transplanted for 9 days, but I do have a few measurements and other data that was taken over the last week to add for reference purposes. In all cases, the plants are numbered 1-6 to make it easier to keep track of changes from week to week.


Day 2 of grow- temp range= 70-80 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=?
plant 1 = 3 " tall
plant 2= 3" tall
plant 3= 2.4" tall
plant 4= 4 " tall
plant 5= 5" tall
plant 6= 3.5" tall

All plants given approx two cups of water. All plants sprayed with neem oil (Einstein oil)as per clone providers suggestion. About half have some yellow leaves on the top and some browning on leaf tips. Transplant shock, light to close, overwatering?

Day 3 of grow- Sprayed plants lightly with water to wash off any mites per clone providers instructions. Made sure I sprayed under all leaves and other others neem oil was sprayed.

Day 5 of grow- temp range= 70-82 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=?

No measurements.
All plants given larger amount of water (1 gallon between 6 plants). Pinched off ends of several leaves that had turned brown. Several plants have leaves that have gone to a much lighter green, almost yellow, and some have leaves that have yellow bands on edge. Raised light from 24" to 30" inches due to concern it was burning leaf tips and possibly bleaching the plant. Can't decide if it's overwatering, transplant shock, or something else. Nutes should be good as FF is supposed to have enough to keep them going for the first month. Rotated all pots 180 degrees and rearranged order to move plants that looked burned farther from light

Day 7 of grow: temp range= 70-82 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=35-48%

Finally got my hands on a humidity gauge yesterday and the room was only about 25%. Added another bucket of water to the room and hung a damp towel in closet where fan will blow across it-humidity jumped 20% in a couple hours. Also began misting the air in the room with water a few times a day, and misting plants lightly 1-2 times a day.

plant 1 = 5 " tall +2" growth
plant 2= 3.5" tall +.5" growth
plant 3= 4" tall +1.5" growth
plant 4= 5 " tall +1" growth
plant 5= 3.5" tall +.5" growth
plant 6= 4" tall +.5" growth

All plants watered again (not sure about amount-partner did it while i was out of room). Plants look somewhat better then before, but many still have yellowing and/or droopy leaves.

Day 9 of grow: temp range= 72-84 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

Not sure whether to water or not. Soil looks dry and top feels dry, but moisture meter shows between 4-7 (green zone)on all pots when put in about 3 inches out from plants and 2-3 inches deep. Partner thinks they need more water, but I'm not so sure. Finally got a digital camera, so I'm uploading pics of the plants in # order in the hope that someone with experience can tell me what I'm looking at. Is the FF sea mist soil too strong for my clones (supplier say he grows in it exclusively)? Am I over/under watering? Do I have some sort of a nutrient deficiency despite them having only been in the soil 9 days? Or am I just stressing over nothing/need to go smoke a bowl and relax? Any advice would be really appreciated.


Note, more pictures will come in a day or two. Will post pics of plants from other angles and give a shot that shows the whole grow room set up.

you might want to feed them a little veg juice. looks like they need nitrogen to me.

Guitar,

A Nitrogen deficiency was one of the things I was considering, but everything I've read or heard about FF soil says that it has enough nutes that you really don't want to feed your plants at all for the first 2-3 weeks after transplanting. At this point I'm not sure what to believe.

i think they really mean new clones that just rooted. those look a little farther along than that.

Hmm,

Then maybe it's time to start them in on 1/4 strength nutes. I just don't want to compound the problem by burning them.

Not seeing signs of over/under watering

the yellowing is often normal while clones are rooting and have gotten to much light, makes em eat themselves trying to veg instead of rooting

why they cut leaf tips cause it tells the plant to work on making roots

I agree that FFOF should be strong enough for at least 3 to 5 weeks so you could just wait and pay attention to new growth if it looks good you are ok

otherwise if your going to feed em I would use something like DynaGro for it's 16 required elements to insure there are no def's

I did not see a mention of you mixing in dolomite in your soil, you could be heading for cal/mag issues without it?

Scribed...wish I had some Opium myself with all these fans up in my ears.

Riddle,

I'll have to check on the dolomite. The person who supplied the clones showed up with the potting soil, hydroton, etc, and he was the one that set up the mixture. I'm sure he put perlite in because I remember him talking about it, but I don't remember anything about dolomite.

So, the yellow is normal under the circumstances (newly transplanted clones and too close a light)- I've been stressing a bit because I couldn't figure out what I was doing to cause it. I've seen a lot of new growth in the last few days, and it looks healthy, so maybe I've just been worrying over nothing. Thanks for the reply (you to guitar), it was appreciated.

Day 10 of vegging.Temp= 72-84 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

Decided to forgo the nutes for the moment, and gave my girls their first shower instead. Let it rain on them until water started running through, then gave them a few minutes to finish draining and settle before putting them back under the lights. This is the first time the entire soil mass in the pot has been truly damp at one time, so it will be interesting to see how well my babies react. As expected they were all drooping within a few minutes and the heaviest top leaves were dragging the ground, but if they react correctly they should perk back up by tomorrow and start to put on a lot of new growth in the next couple of days.

By my read of your pics, all the "issues" seem to be lower down, and that looks like about every clone I've ever seen. Your top growth looks good, and the "yellow" up there is just the normal tone of the leaves before they fully emerge and really get going.

I wouldn't give them anything except love, light and water, which it sounds like you've decided to do. Good luck.

Kriegs,

I thought the lower growth was what you were supposed to watch the closest since thats where problems would show up first in most cases?

Day 11: Temp= 72-84 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

The girls recovered perfectly from the shower (most had perked back up a few hours later), and are showing a lot of new growth. There has definately been visible growth on then in the last 2 days, particularly on 2 of them. Unfortunately the ink we used to number the pots with didn't survive the shower, so it's going to take some comparison work with earler photos to figure out which is which again. Note for the future- Only use permananet markers. The two that are showing the most growth are really going strong. I don't have measurements, but it looks like the size of their top leaves has increased by at least 25-30% in the last 2 days, and they've got a ridiculous amount of new growth starting to show lower down.

EdGreyfox said:

Kriegs,

I thought the lower growth was what you were supposed to watch the closest since thats where problems would show up first in most cases?

Day 11: Temp= 72-84 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

The girls recovered perfectly from the shower (most had perked back up a few hours later), and are showing a lot of new growth. There has definately been visible growth on then in the last 2 days, particularly on 2 of them. Unfortunately the ink we used to number the pots with didn't survive the shower, so it's going to take some comparison work with earler photos to figure out which is which again. Note for the future- Only use permananet markers. The two that are showing the most growth are really going strong. I don't have measurements, but it looks like the size of their top leaves has increased by at least 25-30% in the last 2 days, and they've got a ridiculous amount of new growth starting to show lower down.

Click to expand...

Certain problems start low; others up top. I'm working on my first set of clones right now, so take this with a grain of salt, but.. When a clone is cut, it must feed itself from its own tissues for awhile until the new roots develop. It takes the material from the bottom up.

So, the lower leaves on clones usually look a little rough by the time it "takes" - usually yellowed from drawing out the nitrogen. I don't think I've ever seen a freshly set clone that didn't look like that.

Sounds like that's all in the past now, anyway. Happy growing!

Thanks for the reply Kriegs. Makes sense that they would eat themselves while the roots developed and settled in. Might also explain why the one that seems to be the slowest getting going is also the one with the most yellowing now.

Day 12: Temp= 72-80 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

The girls are looking pretty good, though one of them doesn't seem to be reacting quite the same as the others. Four of the 6 have put on a real growth spurt and are showing a ton of new growth. The fifth has grown, but not quite as well as the other. It seems to be catching up though. The sixth seems to be getting off to a late start. It hasn't grown much, and unlike the other plants it hasn't put off any side branches at the top. It's got a lot of growth, but it's very dense, and it's not showing as much new growth as the others. It also hasn't developed the big horizontal fan leaves the others have. It looks fairly healthy (though there is a fair amount of yellowing on one set of leaf tips down low), but I can't get over how different it looks compared to the other plants at this point. If I didn't know they had all been taken from the same mother I would almost think it was a different strain.

Day 13: Temp= 72-80 during light, 65-70 at night. Humidity=40-49%

Yet another days where there is visible growth on almost all the plants. They all look pretty good, though my slow starter is showing signs of spider mites (they are a really common problem here because it's so dry). I'm going to hit them with neem oil tomorrow after they get watered, and hopefully that will knock the little buggers back for a few weeks.

Trying to decide when to water based on soil feel is a bit wierd. I grown other plants indoors before, and I've never had trouble deciding when they needed to be watered based on the soils feel, but this is confusing me. I've got one of those moisture/light/Ph meters, and it's telling me they are all well into the green zone for moisture, but when i feel the soil the top few inches are really dry and when i stick a finger down about 2-3 inches it still doesn't really feel all that moist to me. My girls really aren't acting thirsty, so I'm going to hold off until tomorrow on watering them (also going to start them on 1/2 strength big bloom and grow big).

Guess that's it for today. I should have the camera available again tomorrow and will try and get pics of each plant from more then one angle, and will post this weeks growth results once the measurements are done.

Your enviroment is much like mine temps and humidty. I have spider mites on one of my plants. I think I got them because I worked on a jobsite that was essentially in the forest. Didn't change clothes and shower before I touched the plants =/. I saw them early on and they haven't spread to my other plants because of spacing. My fan is higher than the canopy so there isn't much wind current for them to ride on either. I've been using BioNeem + DM Saturator. I'm about 2 weeks in and I am finally noticing population drop. Takes awhile for all the generations to die out. Good luck man! make sure they don't spread.

I can relate to your thoughts on soil watering as well since I've only grown hydro before this grow. See with mine I also have to account for the water released nutes (MG). If I water to where I feel they should be watered by touch I get nute burn. So mine is always a bit dry. So... yea. Pics?

Day 14: Temp= 72-82 during light, 62-70 at night. Humidity=40-45%

Took pics today and took measurements, but the camera's owner forgot to upload the pics before they left and it's going to be tomorrow before they email them to me. Anyway, on with the new weeks data.

Plant 1: Height = 6", growth = 2"
Plant 2: Height = 4.5", growth =1"
Plant 3: Height = 7.5", growth =2.5"
Plant 4: Height = 6", growth = 2"
Plant 5: Height = 7", growth = 2"
Plant 6: Height =5", growth = 1"

I watered the girls today and gave them full strength FF Big Bloom and 1/2 strength FF Grow Big. I've come to the conclusion that the moisture reader i picked up at the hydro store is junk, since it keeps insisting the soil is wet when the top 4+ inches is bone dry and the plants are starting to droop and show other signs of needing water. I may not have much experience growing marijuana, but I grew up being my parents garden slave (my mother turned the inside of our house into a small jungle and my dad had a 50 x 30 vegetable garden) and all that knowledge i picked up 30+ years ago is starting to come back to me now. I can still hear their voice telling me what I needed to check and how to tell when their various plants needed water, feeding, etc. Drove me nuts when I was a teenager, but I guess they actually knew what they were talking about after all. Bet they never thought I'd put the knowledge to this use though.

I also hit the girls with neem oil after their watering. I'm still not positive I've got spider mites, but i figure it's better to be safe then sorry. Living where I do they are going to show up sooner or later anyway, so I might as well be proactive about controlling them.

Growing ftg- I use Einstein oil-Whats the difference between what I'm using and the Bio neem/saturator combination you're using? I really don't know much about how the stuff works, just picked it up on my caregivers recommendation.

From what I've read Einstein Oil is simply a neem oil solution. It will work fine don't worry. Neem oil will prevent the mite eggs from molting. As will BioNeem, However, BioNeem also treats in 2 otherways. Doesn't matter in the end though - dead either way.

Growing, Interesting. I guess I need to read up on exactly how the stuff works, because the person who recommended it to me had a totally different idea. Something to do with it keeping the mites/eggs from being able to cling to the leaves.

Anyway, sorry about the missed days. Things got a little nuts with work and then my truck decide to start leaking oil, so I've been too busy to post for a couple days.

Day 17:Temp= 72-82 during light, 62-70 at night. Humidity=35-45% (having a hard time keeping it over 45%, and if I crack the window to let fresh air in it drops to 30-35%)

Still waiting on the pictures from last weekend-person who took them has been sick and sounded terrible when I talked to her today, so I suppose i can be patient for a while.

Getting close to watering time again- upper soil is dry, but theres still a fair amount of moisture after you get a couple inches down, so I'm going to hold off until tomorrow. I've plucked off a few of the yellow leaves on a couple of the plants in the last day or two because they weren't showing any signs of getting any better and I don't see any point in the plant wasting energy supporting a few leaves that aren't doing it any good. There was as single "bunch" of 5 small leaves on one plant and a couple of large individual leaves on the other, so it's not like I took much.

My slow starter is finally starting to show some obvious signs of upward growth! In the last 3 days it's top fan leaves have suddenly spread out and gotten a LOT bigger, then central stalk has put on at least an inch of growth, and the plant has gotten even bushier and denser then it was before. Starting to think that this one is going to have to be directly under the light when i start flowering if I want to get any light penetration.

The other girls are coming along quite nicely. All have a ton of new growth continuing to put out shoots and they all are showing at least some visible growth on a daily basis. Only concern I have is that the top fan leaves on a couple are starting to get so big that I think they are providing too much shade for the rest of the plant. Do people normally cut back/prune the top fan leaves to allow more light through?

Day 19:Temp= 72-82 during light, 62-70 at night. Humidity=35-45%

Still no pics- Person with the camera turned out to have strep throat, so it's going to be a few more days. My girls still look good, but my slow starter is starting to annoy me a bit. All the other plants are growing great, but this one just seems to want to keep getting thicker without growing taller. Noticed today that it's actually put off a stalk that growing at a 90 degree angle right below the top of the plant, and that it seems to be putting all it's energy into the sideways growth rather then going up.

Only other problem I've noticed was that all of them are developing a purple color on some of their stalks, and the ones that go purple have white fuzzy hair covering them (sort of like peachfuzz). It's been a bit colder then usual the last couple days and I left the window cracked one night, so it may just be a response to abnormal cold or it could be the early signs of a nute deficiency. I went ahead and gave them full strength vegging nutes for the first time today, so we'll so how they respond.

Day 22:Temp= 72-82 during light, 62-70 at night. Humidity=35-45%


Another week down, but at least I've got a few pic's to share. I've GOT to get my own digital camera. Anyway, here are this weeks measurements.

#1= 11.25" +5.25" growth
#2= 4 "/9" wide - 1/2" up/+4" sideways
#3= 11.5" +4" growth
#4= 8" +2" growth
#5= 11.25" +4.25" growth
#6= 8.25" +3.25" growth

The pic's don't show all the plants, and because the person taking them was concentrating on showing the purpling stems they really don't do them justice. Other then #3 (which can't figure out which direction to grow) they are all doing great. Still wondering about the purpling of the stems, but it doesn't seem to be effecting them much.

I've been shopping around online for a few days trying to decide what to do about the lighting situation. It's become increasingly apparent that the single 400w just isn't going to cut it once the plants start flowering, but being a cheapskate by nature I had to agonize over how to get the best bang for my buck. I was really tempted to go with a couple 4 ft 4 bulb t5's and just hang them as side lighting, but the more I thought about it the more I realized what i needed to do was just bite the bullet and get myself a 600w with a digital ballast and set up a separate flowering room. So, I ended up ordering one from HTG supply today, and will use the 400w strictly for vegging (though I may use it as a supplement to the 600w until i have a new set of clones ready to start vegging).
Eventually I also want to add at least one 4 bulb bank of t5's to each room for side/lower growth lighting, but thats going to have to wait a while.

Now, time for a guessing game- can anyone guess what the last picture is?