First I would like to say pot is great....

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stealthman08

Active Member
So I'm pretty damn curious about our species. How would you describe humans (in depth) in your own words (or a really badass quote)?

And another thing, lol at points of life. We give to much credit to life. It just goes to waste at the end of life. We try finding some very meaningful purpose to life, but why? What if our purpose is to ALL commit suicide? If I said the purpose of life is to commit suicide, would you guys disagree? Why?:mrgreen::eyesmoke:



"fuck it.... I guess we lost

Someday you will die somehow and somethings gonna steal your carbon"
 
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stealthman08

Active Member
Damn, my thread will make no sense. Try your best to make the most sense out of it.


Oh....wait....damn I forgot.... Nevermind....
 
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stealthman08

Active Member
Oh I remember....
Atheists- do you ever feel as though there is something more to life? Something that would warp all science and logic? Something like, let's say, a god? Please answer these last three questions with either a yes or a no without explanation. And please PLEASE be completely honest. Thank you, :).
 
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stealthman08

Active Member
Constructive criticism- yes yes....

This is what I've been trying to say.
Atheists- instead of just ridiculing religious people, how about you try to help them see logic (I'm not saying they don't understand logic)? How about you constructively critisice them instead of making fun of them?
I understand not all atheists do this, but most of the atheists I have met only make fun of religious people (it pisses me off if you couldn't tell). Sorry for fucking up my sentences.... The point of words is to communicate. So if you guys get what I'm trying to say, then I guess it doesn't matter how fucked up my sentence structure is.
 
growmo23

growmo23

Active Member
Wow, Stealthman...

As an athiest I would have to say that while I do not believe in an omnipotent creator, I also believe in the continuity of energy. I mean, if you put good energy out there it comes back. Not like the whole "Do unto others..." line, but more as in if you do good things just because they are good things, you feel better about yourself and become stronger. Ultimately, we are what we dare to be. If there is a god, I do not believe we will be judged on whether or not we read a book and woke up early every sunday, I believe we will be judged on the merit of our lives and how much good vs evil we have contributed. No one is perfect, no one is meant to be. That doesn't mean we can't work to be the best people we can be, and if being swept away by the beauty in the universe is spiritual, then so be it.

I too believe that Modest Mouse offers some unique perspectives on the terrible weight of being human. It can suck sometimes, but then I think about boobies and I am glad that I am human!!
 
growmo23

growmo23

Active Member
And as far as the suicide thing goes, I believe that for some people it truly is the most sensible option to escape a life of endless pain and torment with no end in sight. However, I abhor any thought of attempting to end it all unless EVERY avenue f help has been extinguished. Anyone who offs themself just because life is hard and sad without trying to get help or talk to someone is a big fat pussy.
 
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stealthman08

Active Member
growmo23 said:
And as far as the suicide thing goes, I believe that for some people it truly is the most sensible option to escape a life of endless pain and torment with no end in sight. However, I abhor any thought of attempting to end it all unless EVERY avenue f help has been extinguished. Anyone who offs themself just because life is hard and sad without trying to get help or talk to someone is a big fat pussy.
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Hmmm, I like the majority of your views. I don't agree with them, but I like them, :).

How does suicide make you a pussy? There's no good or bad in commiting suicide.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
stealthman08 said:
Constructive criticism- yes yes....

This is what I've been trying to say.
Atheists- instead of just ridiculing religious people, how about you try to help them see logic (I'm not saying they don't understand logic)? How about you constructively critisice them instead of making fun of them?
I understand not all atheists do this, but most of the atheists I have met only make fun of religious people (it pisses me off if you couldn't tell). Sorry for fucking up my sentences.... The point of words is to communicate. So if you guys get what I'm trying to say, then I guess it doesn't matter how fucked up my sentence structure is.
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Hey, Stealthman. That is a really good idea for a thread: discussing religion with theists to help them see the logic of our thought process and constructively criticize them! I'd start one myself if there weren't over 100 active threads already of this exact theme going on all the time on this subforum ;)
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
stealthman08 said:
Hmmm, I like the majority of your views. I don't agree with them, but I like them, :).

How does suicide make you a pussy? There's no good or bad in commiting suicide.
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Suicide can be viewed as the ultimate abdication, a forfeiture of basic grit and courage. I call it he Coward's Option ... even though its siren song relentlessly nibbles at me ... cn
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
stealthman08 said:
Constructive criticism- yes yes....

This is what I've been trying to say.
Atheists- instead of just ridiculing religious people, how about you try to help them see logic (I'm not saying they don't understand logic)? How about you constructively critisice them instead of making fun of them?
Click to expand...
This is what you see most atheists doing in forums such as this. By asking the theist to examine his or her own beliefs and provide the logic they think is behind them, the atheist is using the Socratic method to get them to stop using fallacious reasoning and realize that there is no empirical evidence for a deity and that it all boils down to faith, i.e. belief without reason. Once they admit that all they have is faith, then a real discussion can begin.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
This is what you see most atheists doing in forums such as this. By asking the theist to examine his or her own beliefs and provide the logic they think is behind them, the atheist is using the Socratic method to get them to stop using fallacious reasoning and realize that there is no empirical evidence for a deity and that it all boils down to faith, i.e. belief without reason. Once they admit that all they have is faith, then a real discussion can begin.
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...but doesn't that place 100% of 'possibility' or potentiality on atheists? I wonder why you feel atheism 'deserves' to be the one answered to? Faith is not belief without reason. It is based in sex.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...but doesn't that place 100% of 'possibility' or potentiality on atheists? I wonder why you feel atheism 'deserves' to be the one answered to? Faith is not belief without reason. It is based in sex.
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Please restate your question in English please.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Please restate your question in English please.
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...it's clear, thanks. And void of tone.

mindphuk said:
This is what you see most atheists doing in forums such as this. By asking the theist to examine his or her own beliefs and provide the logic they think is behind them, the atheist is using the Socratic method to get them to stop using fallacious reasoning and realize that there is no empirical evidence for a deity and that it all boils down to faith, i.e. belief without reason. Once they admit that all they have is faith, then a real discussion can begin.
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...you're setting the stage, or 'it' won't happen. This is what your post 'gives off'. It's as if a believer should pull up a stool to stand on to reach the message.

...sounds evangelical.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...it's clear, thanks. And void of tone.
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It was not clear. "doesn't that place 100% of 'possibility' or potentiality on atheists? " This sentence alone is unclear and seems incomplete.
"I wonder why you feel atheism 'deserves' to be the one answered to?" This sentence is a non-sequitur as I said no such thing.
...you're setting the stage, or 'it' won't happen. This is what your post 'gives off'. It's as if a believer should pull up a stool to stand on to reach the message.

...sounds evangelical.
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I said nothing of the sort. You appear to be reading something into my post that wasn't said or intended. However it is a fact that many religious discussions start out with fallacies and unsupportable claims. The atheist has a neutral POV as it makes no claim and is a position of mere skepticism of a claim. It is always the person that is making a positive claim that needs to provide a reason to accept their claim. When the theist finally accepts that their reasons for making the claim that "god exists" are not logically sound and they are left with only faith will the two parties be at the first point of agreement. The atheist is not delivering a message, most of the time we spend our time defending why non-belief is a reasonable position to hold.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
It was not clear. "doesn't that place 100% of 'possibility' or potentiality on atheists? " This sentence alone is unclear and seems incomplete.
"I wonder why you feel atheism 'deserves' to be the one answered to?" This sentence is a non-sequitur as I said no such thing.

I said nothing of the sort. You appear to be reading something into my post that wasn't said or intended. However it is a fact that many religious discussions start out with fallacies and unsupportable claims. The atheist has a neutral POV as it makes no claim and is a position of mere skepticism of a claim. It is always the person that is making a positive claim that needs to provide a reason to accept their claim. When the theist finally accepts that their reasons for making the claim that "god exists" are not logically sound and they are left with only faith will the two parties be at the first point of agreement. The atheist is not delivering a message, most of the time we spend our time defending why non-belief is a reasonable position to hold.
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...always possible to read what's not there. Basic premise of belief :)

I'm glad that you wrote 'wasn't intended'. But with words like "stop using fallacious reasoning" and "finally", it's tough not to wonder.

"The right Hemisphere is associated with creativity, artistic ability and spirituality. The left Hemisphere is associated with the analytical and mathematics." imho, we occupy the same space, and are tasked differently. Neither should have to stop anything.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
...always possible to read what's not there. Basic premise of belief :)

I'm glad that you wrote 'wasn't intended'. But with words like "stop using fallacious reasoning" and "finally", it's tough not to wonder.

"The right Hemisphere is associated with creativity, artistic ability and spirituality. The left Hemisphere is associated with the analytical and mathematics." imho, we occupy the same space, and are tasked differently. Neither should have to stop anything.
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Well if you have non-fallacious, compelling reasons to believe in the existence of things that are inherently untestable and unknowable, I'd love to hear them.
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Well if you have non-fallacious, compelling reasons to believe in the existence of things that are inherently untestable and unknowable, I'd love to hear them.
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...and I'd love to tell them. How do we take the 'personal' out of personal / mystical experience though? That's the tough part for me. My own experience reads somewhat like Jacob's Ladder! And I just know BB will post a god helmet video and fck it all up! :lol: (kidding, beef...)

...the movie has this quote from Meister Eckhart:

"Eckhart saw Hell too. He said: "The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you," he said. "They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth."

...though you don't die, you have to re-member after the experience. Negredo, in alchemy. I'll cut and paste something relevant before I post more.

-------

This then is the work of darkness and destruction, and can be the most painful and difficult stage of the work. But in many ways it is also the one which most closely resembles the manner in which western culture is accustomed to go about the quest for knowledge and understanding, for one of the greatest virtues needed for the successful completion of the negredo is scepticism.

The cold critical intelligence with which the scientist analyses his theories and models, the alchemist must unleash on him or herself. And this is not an easy thing: to hold up a magick mirror to the soul, and through it to behold within yourself that which is ugliest, most base, most ignorant, selfish and evil. In the material analogies the blackening is accomplished by direct exposure to fire – and the negredo of spiritual alchemy is indeed a trial by fire. (see Daniel in the Bible - producing the 4th man, which I feel is the same as the 'irrational third')

The negredo of spiritual alchemy calls upon the alchemist to look inside himself and to question and challenge everything. In the darkness of the blackening nothing is sacred, and you must be merciless with yourself. Here is the demon Choronzon, the beast who guards the gates and your personal nemesis. Be it in a literal or metaphorical sense you must invoke him and face him.

But here also is the pregnant darkness and the beginnings of genius. One must have courage and faith to let go of what is comforting and familiar and to step into the darkness of the unknown. But without this abysmal voyage nothing new can be discovered. Look back at the geniuses of the past, such as Einstein, and you will see that they were not the ones who extended what was already known; they were the ones who took an axe to the foundations of knowledge, and then set off in an entirely novel direction. What they did for science you can do for yourself and your own life. From the perspective of psychological alchemy this is the destruction of the ego (by facing the shadow archetype) which precedes the creation of the manifest self.

On a slightly different note, we may also find in the negredo a vindication of much of the suffering we already endure. Through the blackening much of our suffering may gain a purpose, and thereby be transcended – in the completion of the impetus behind our suffering and pain it is overcome.
 
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stealthman08

Active Member
tyler.durden said:
Hey, Stealthman. That is a really good idea for a thread: discussing religion with theists to help them see the logic of our thought process and constructively criticize them! I'd start one myself if there weren't over 100 active threads already of this exact theme going on all the time on this subforum ;)
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Sorry Tyler. I guess I'm just stupid since I didn't see any. There is no need to be sarcastic though, what did I ever do to you?
 
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