First Time Builder/Grower: Need some help MacGuyvers!

Hey all this is my first grow. I’ve been growing these guys from seed for the last 3 1/2 weeks. Something’s not right.

This is my first build and grow. I’ve been to about 10 different forums and read through just about each and every topic. I figured it was time for some first hand experience. So here’s some pictures of my build and 3 1/2 weeks into the growth.

They are looking really sad so PLEASE help me.



The Light in the top of the box is fixed to the ceiling but I can put it on a pulley system to raise and lower it closer to the tops of the plants. I just cant find a pulley system anywhere.



Anyone got some ideas as to what to use in this case? lowest cost ideas please.


The lights are 4' Phillips 32 Watt T8 Plant Bulbs I picked up from The Depot. I had an extra clip light in the garage and since I figured I needed more light, I picked up a Specialty Plant bulb and threw that in there too.



That Specialty bulb produced a lot of heat so I cut a hole in the bottom of the box and put a fan in there to cut on with the water pump timer cuts on. 3x Daily for 15 min.



Should I go 4x?

I've also realized that the fan isn’t aimed right and doesn’t oscillate (to correctly strengthen the plants) so I’m looking for a VERY SMALL Oscillating fan to screw into the wall. Possibly an Oscillating clip fan but I have not been able to find one of those either.

Any ideas on that as well?

I’m not sure why my leaves are curling. Is it from lack of water, too much heat, or not enough light. Or all the above?

This particular box is just for Seedlings, Clones, and Mothers. I don’t have any mothers or clones at the moment. But hopefully ONE of these 10 will be decent enough to save as a mother and try my hand at clones.



The other grow box is setup for 5 Veg/Flowering. I still need a light for this box. I was thinking about a really small HPS lighting system.



The Reservoir is a DWC with a large air pump split to two air stones.

QUESTION: can you go from an Ebb n Flow system on your seedlings and clones to a DWC for Veg and Flower cycles? Will this shock the plants?

Ideally I want to have a harvest every 4 weeks so I was planning for 4 weeks clones/seedlings stage, 4 weeks Veg stage

, and 4 weeks Flower stage. So 3 grow boxes. Or am I wrong and what would be the best plan to reach this goal of a harvest every 4 weeks?

I'll post some more pictures of the Veg/Flower Box when the plants get to that stage.

Can you transfer them to soil? They look like 1 1/2 week from seed, not 3 1/2. To me it looks like the root system isn't growing enough to support a bigger plant.

Well they are at 4 weeks now... and the leaves are completly curled but still dark green... I still need to lower the lights to about 2-4 inches above the tips. I think thats the problem. Also, How often should I refresh the water... now that I think about it I almost certain that after a week all that natural nutes in the water have been depleted. So Im going to create a raise/lower system for the overhead light as well as start refreshing the water once a week. and post the diference.

I dont want to rip them up and try again anew...I want to learn how to fix the problems as they occur or more over what causes it and then how to fix it. Im certain that the lighting is whats causing the curling leaves. The roots are all networked through the 1.5x1.5" rockwool cubes and exteneding into the water about a 1/2 inch...Its what I expeted and planned for they are only suppsed to be in these little pots between 4-6 weeks then transplanted into a larger 4-5" rockwool cube and placed in the Veg room for 4 weeks, then Flower Room for 4 weeks, then harvrest, dry, and cure about 10 days after that.

Any other suggestions besides More/lowering the light, and refresh water weekly?

This is a hydroponic system...no soil can be used.

Ok no pictures yet as no changes to the plants have occured in the last 15 hrs. BUT...I did create a pully system with a couple eye bolts, a couple eye wall screws, a single screw, and a piece of string...total cost $1.35. So now the light is about 2-3 inches off the tops of the plants... I did alittle more research on Hydro water cycles and apparently theres a vast difference in those cycles... some water 3-4x daily for 15 minutes...others are every 2-3 hrs for 15 minutes so long as the Rockwool dosnt dry out between fills. Some wont water at night at all and others will water once or twice and some water continuously the same day or night.

Where im at now....

Fresh Water and 1/4tsp nuts per gal @ 5 gal Resivor= 1.5-2tsp/5gal fresh water "Every Week" regularly.
Watering cycle = every 2- 2 1/2 Hrs, 15min long (while the lights are on) and 1 time at night, 15min long. (In the direct middle of dark period)
Lights 2-3 inches above the plants. I removed the specialty plant bulb (Heat was reaching a consistent "Hot as Fuck" reading.)
Fan is still on 24/7, but temps are cosisntly between 74-80.

I will take some pics and post them when changes appear as well as how long it took for something visial to happen.

No Im not broke either I just know theres shit all over the place that will suffice.

What's your ph level and did u soak the rockwool cubes first? Did you adjust ph prior to planting?

Yes I soaked the Rockwool and honestly no idea what the pH is ... I need a meter/test kit. But I do have a full water analysis for each year (tests are monthly) from my water source...says 7.3 . Actual report is posted below...

I just found an awesome stickied Problems guide and haev read through it a couple times...and from what Im reading ... i think Its pH Lock-out...from being too high...anyone have solutions, asap? I dont have any type of water filtering device (or RO)... so I would think perhaps prebottled water from some where or a test kit and some ph up and down. Is there an automatic system that monitors and doses pH up or down? is it worth it or can a person manually do it? Does it fluccuate daily? or just have to worry about it each water change?

I was hoping for some responses like Baking soda for down and sulfuric acid for up but Im going to run to the Hydroponic store tomarrow and pickup a pH Control kit they got one with up, down, and control...its a kit ya know... so ill have that info to post tomarrow evening.

Still havnt made it to the store but this morning when i took a peak I saw that everything was clearing up and the plants looked all purked up and livly... they still look like shit but its like they have hope now lol well see.

yeah, you need to get that ph down to about 5.7

I could Mike777, switch them to soil but its a hydroponic setup...IMO that completly defeats the perpuse.

You need another air pump or how bout just one?
You should have started in soilless before trying nft

is the plant still alive?

dimesak said:

yeah, you need to get that ph down to about 5.7

Click to expand...

Thanks dimesak for the multipule responses. I have since picked up a pH Control Kit. It was really small (Indicator, pH Up, pH Down, Testing Vail, and a Dropper). It was only $17. Great investment for me even more so than for just my plants (I got a few aquariums some planted some not) since I was finally able to test the water for my Ponic system I got carried away and tested all my aquariums and learned alot. Theres TONs of things that people use to "Doctor" there aquariums and each one totally effected the pH (some up some down, some WAY up, some WAY down.) Anyways my pH is between Orange and Yellow now instead of Blue/Black. LOL... GAWD was the pH terrible. I did manage to save and nurture 2 of the origninal plants to a very Promising-Looking specimen. They are both still small as I have not changed any of the controls for the seedling stage. I'll post some pics below. As of today they are approximatly 8 weeks or so. YES I know they are small and prolly look about 3-4 weeks. So thats 8 weeks of trial and error, and a huge learning experience. I now know I can do it! AND it only gets better from here.

So new question and theres pictures above to reference to for my Vertical Grow cabinet on the floor. Theres approxamitly 4 sq ft of space in the bottom. And Ive seen wattage recommendations from 50-100 or so per sq ft and that diferent types of bulbs/systems may be less wattage but penetrate the canopy of the plant better...most diference ive heard is how they dispurse the light differently.

So Ive got a space 4 Sq ft...In a Perfectly square floor box. (Its not really a box, I made it from 2x4s, Pond liner, and used a cardboard sheet for the door.) I was thinking that I could get away with a 250 watt ballast HPS/MH switchable system. Can I get this ballast from a Home Improvment store? or is there a difference between one ment for HPS or MH, Or EVEN...(I dont want to through this out the window yet) COULD I still produce a nice personal use plant with cpfl's? Perhaps 4 indipendently dangling bulbs... this would allow me to raise and lower each specific one to the correct height above the tips of the plants. This would be MUCH less expensive and I could invest in several 4' Tubes Vertically and Insert them on the sides behind a Bulb protecting glass/plastic so the plants can reach as far as they want without reaching and touching the bulbs causeing them to burn from the heat...then I would be lighting the plant from all sides, above AND below. I dont want to rush into this and Im in no hurry... just learning as I go.

mr.smileyface said:

You need another air pump or how bout just one?
You should have started in soilless before trying nft

Click to expand...

yeah I started that way and never bought the clay pellets and it started working then the pH snag hit me and here we are now But yes thats a great idea to have done and i do recommend it as well for others following even farther behind myself.

Smileyface... what air pump are you refering to? Perhaps this is leading to my next question of Can I move my seedlings from nft to dwc. What should I expect to happen in this change, and how can I counter balance it if it is ok to transfer my bigger plants to a larger rockwool cube and use a DWC for the larger ones? Will the plants be shocked to have the roots submerged constantly in the DWC? Please any advice on whats to come or what to do next is greatly appreciated

So long as its not a suggestion to switch to soil... I want to learn Hydro/soilless growing... IMO Sticking a seed in the soil and setting it out side is nothing special and not as pridful as what Im wanting... No disrespect for you outdoor/soil growers.

keysmachine said:

is the plant still alive?

Click to expand...

Ye all of no faith in me lol Yeah there are 3 remaining and 2 that should do quite well.

Leaves seem to be curling/wilting ever so slightly so I just bumped it up to watering for 30 minutes every 3.5 hours while the lights are on. First is just as the lights cut on, and last is just prior to the lights shutting off. All lights are still on 18hrs light/6hrs darkness timer. and Im wanting to start the veg cycle of Lighting which i intend to see the plant start growing in size until I switch it to flowering. Is this the right thinking?

Also Im researching for a Veg/flower light setup. i found these three please let me know your oppinions. (It is a small space and CPFL would be great if theres one that will work)

Metal Halide
Light Output: 21,250 Lumens
Energy used: 250 Watts
Life Hours: 10,000 Hours
ED28 Shape, mogul base
MFG Brand Name : Philips

High Pressure Sodium
Light Output: 27,000 Lumens
Energy used: 250 Watts
Life Hours: 24,000 Hours
ED18 Shape, mogul base
MFG Brand Name : Philips

Compact Flouresent
Light Output: 6,900 Lumens
Energy used: 100 Watts
Life Hours: 10,000 Hours
Mogul (E39)MFG
Brand Name : MaxLite

Could i get away with just this CPFL? I can get several and adjust the heights exactly where I want them.

Perhaps this is leading to my next question of Can I move my seedlings from nft to dwc.

Sorry I didn't catch this before but I'm not using/don't have an NFT setup. It's an Ebb n Flo. I also noticed that my roots although almost a foot long now did/were dry when I last checked.

Adjustment:
They now get watered 30min every 3.5hrs even in the dark.
Nutes are now at 2.5 tsp per 5gal.
Lights are 18/6
pH is yellow/orange (about 5.5-6)