first time cloning(and first grow) my babies keep suiciding! help!

smokefacekillah said:

I'm no expert, but just by watching how aero cloners & similar sprayer cloners work, I just don't like them, I see it like this when your thirsty you want to drink water not have some one spray it in your face. just take out your sub-pump and raise your water level so the roots are like almost touching the water, I think this is a better way for the plant to receive constant oxygen with just the airstones, thats how i do it, it wouldn't hurt to try, I mean it's worked with at least like 4 strains that I have tried.

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SFK: The sole reason I have raised this issue is to try something that might work, since all I'm left with is tampering with tried and true methods that have worked for others, THAT I HAVE ALREADY TRIED.

SPOILER: This is ONLY for this nearly impossible strain that I have been trying to clone for a month.

So I welcome your suggestion on the next several cuttings I take, having adopted some other techniques from others that have had difficulty, that make sense to me:

1) take the cutting when the plant is resting, or growing roots, not transpiring at the leaves, at other than the hours of 6 am to 10 pm, EST from lower branch thriving candidates then, 2) dip cutting immediately in an 1/8" dab of honey to ward off bacteria and seal the hole, then some rooting hormone, 3) let sit undisturbed after trimming, then make a 3/4" slice top to bottom, to split the cut end on two sides while slightly roughing up the exterior skin with sterile sharp blade, 4) don't put immediately into media, wait about 15" to give the cut end a chance to form special healing cells, 5) and now, put in the aero cloner as you suggest raising my h2o level to bottom of cutting. Let the airstones do their work.

If i where you try just cutting the plant at whatever time of day (plants don't have watches), but at dark time I wouldn't do it because the plants are usually at their droopiest state, and I figured Hey would you like to be woken up to somebody cutting your fingers off?

and you can try you're method two mine takes a shorter amount of time and less worry and hassle, check it

1. Locate a good lower branch with at least 2-3 nodes.
2. Cut it at a 90 degree angle( scissors + razor blade to get the angle right)
3. Scar the stem a little with the razor blade (no deep cuts or splitting the stem in half)
4. Dip it in tap water like tea bag
5.Put a neoprene collar around the bad girl, and put her into your system

a simple streamed line version to cloning, the system i have is basically a small DIY DWC, which is just an airstone, airpump and a small 3 gal rubbermaid tote, nothing fancy or expensive about it, the only time my clones didn't root was because their were poor cuttings, I was trying to fill up 30 slots with a small plant, and i was even trying to see if i could get a fan leaf to clone

SFK

Been there, done that. That's why I wrote that I have tried every traditional SIMPLE way in creation.

So I am trying things I haven't.

BTW, the only cutting that had little bumps on it, and some 1/8 " rootlets, has started what looks like a death watch. Had a feeling it wouldn't make it to transplant. That makes 100% failure of nearly 50 cuttings. Just taking 50 cuttings and sticking them in water on the window sill would likely have produced a few. I have three now doing just that which i put in water yesterday.

It won't work on these sativa cuttings.

4nikator said:

SFK

Been there, done that. That's why I wrote that I have tried every traditional SIMPLE way in creation.

So I am trying things I haven't.

BTW, the only cutting that had little bumps on it, and some 1/8 " rootlets, has started what looks like a death watch. Had a feeling it wouldn't make it to transplant. That makes 100% failure of nearly 50 cuttings. Just taking 50 cuttings and sticking them in water on the window sill would likely have produced a few. I have three now doing just that which i put in water yesterday.

It won't work on these sativa cuttings.

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Did you say these are outside? Where? They might be too far into flower to have much luck. That's been my experience lately.

Yes. All of them have been outdoors since about the last week of June. I was late getting the seeds sprouted, and transplanted. The seeds were cracked in distilled h20, then sprouted in peat pellets, set outdoors in rich organic soil after two weeks of constant 24 hours under grow lights. I have stressed these very tall growing plants with various methods including tie down, and slightly breaking the tallest of them in the LST method. Several were too long bent over and broke half way thru, and they came back even more vigorous, the nodes tightening up substantially. (Sativa will create long spaces between nodes if not early on subjected to fimming, cropping, and other manhandling.

They have done very well with the relentless sunshine for nearly two months outdoors. I began taking cuttings after three weeks outdoors and have tried various techniques that we all know about. They have been under domes with 90% humidity for weeks, without domes in an Octo-cloner for three weeks or more, others in warm 85 degree wet sterile sand; in rockwool, rooting plugs, potting soil, Nature's Own, Worm castings, and other organics. Nothing has produced even one cutting with more than some bumps and 1/8" rootlets. And that one lost its rootlets yesterday. I'm keeping it in the Octo-cloner as SFK suggested, removing the pump and just allowing the bottoms of the cuttings to touch the top of the bubbling water.

I have considered the lateness of the last several weeks' cuttings that I have taken,but that doesn't explain why the ones I took 5 weeks ago that seemed to be alive and well, green, and happy in various media, that didn't develop even one root among the 15 or so that I cut after three weeks. Don't see any pre-flowers yet to determine the gender of any of the 15 that remain outdoors.

I have taken indoors to the grow room one plant to flower it, using the 11/13 lighting schedule, after keeping it in darkness for 40 hours immediately after I brought it indoors. Its pre-flowers are indicating it is a female. I had earlier taken three cuttings from this plant when it was outdoors, and on two branches I attempted "air Layering" to see if roots would sprout that way. So far, nothing after 12 days indoors.

UPDATE: 8 am this morning: Opened the covering on the "Air layered", pre-flowering branch on the indoor plant on an 11/13 light cycle, and there are a half dozen roots coming thru the rockwool covering, from bumps to 1/2", very white.

These rootlets appear to be jutting out from a part of the branch I originally 'squeezed' and twisted, and bent over a month ago to begin the LST flattening of the branches on the plant and to expose other parts of the branch to the sun. In a week or so It formed a bulbous 'knuckle', about an inch in circumference.

I have now re-wrapped that part of the branch with a bit of nutrient in a ph 6.5 rooting plug and black plastic to keep out light. These are the very first significant rootlets I have gotten to date! And this was just a hail mary I thought to try after the normal methods did not work and looking at alternate ways to clone, several weeks ago.

Keeping fingers and toes crossed that the roots continue to grow although now I am stymied on what to do since these roots are on a pre-flowering branch about to go full tilt in flowering in a week or two.

What to do with this branch now that it is on a pre-flowered branch? I've switched to Bud Blood, one treatment last week, but the roots likely need something different.

Let it run on till roots are more robust and then severing it to place it in medium, 1) to re-veg it or, 2) continue with it in rooting/ flowering state?

Have you checked the temperature of your water? The pump can raise the temperature of your water, and combine that with normal hot weather, and it may be giving you problems. Not sure if that is the problem, I am just throwing ideas out there. I have the most success cloning in the cooler spring and fall weather. I still have success in the summer, it just seems to take longer to give roots.

TheHermit said:

Have you checked the temperature of your water? The pump can raise the temperature of your water, and combine that with normal hot weather, and it may be giving you problems. Not sure if that is the problem, I am just throwing ideas out there. I have the most success cloning in the cooler spring and fall weather. I still have success in the summer, it just seems to take longer to give roots.

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TH,

I have a permanent digital therm in the res on the top where the h20 hits the cutting end. The res is indoors, on the basement floor which gives a nearly constant 77 F ambient temp. It sits on a heat mat that I turn on and off every other day to maintain a 77 to 88 F. Humidity is also very high at 81 and trying to get it higher today with a dome when one responder suggested a near 98% RH.

I think starting with such a huge setup is a mistake, personally. Learn how to grow one plant. Then learn to grow four, then maybe try growing exponentially larger crops. I would not want to take on a task like that, no matter what discipline it was, if I was new at it. It is near impossible to learn to play Steve Vai songs when you can't tune a guitar. It is hard to cook Beef Wellington if you haven't mastered a number of cooking techniques. Racing in NASCAR would be tough if you just got your learner's permit. I'm not trying to piss on your party, but I think this is a relevant Wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition

tl;dr: Everything is hard until you get good at it.

Michael Huntherz said:

I think starting with such a huge setup is a mistake, personally. Learn how to grow one plant. Then learn to grow four, then maybe try growing exponentially larger crops. I would not want to take on a task like that, no matter what discipline it was, if I was new at it. It is near impossible to learn to play Steve Vai songs when you can't tune a guitar. It is hard to cook Beef Wellington if you haven't mastered a number of cooking techniques. Racing in NASCAR would be tough if you just got your learner's permit. I'm not trying to piss on your party, but I think this is a relevant Wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition

tl;dr: Everything is hard until you get good at it.

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I have two years experience growing from seed and cuttings. I've flowered at least 50 plants with Indoor hydro, and soil. I've used R/wool, clay balls, DWC, and own a 1000 Watt HPS light and ballast that is at least 50% consumed. I've grown single mothers in a Steamer Trunk in a micro-grow.

So my setup isn't actually that large, and if it were not for the difficulty I've had with taking cuttings from this particular strain of Sativa, I would likely not be here. I just kept adding on methods that others have suggested in hopes that one or two would work.

It was only after I couldn't get any cuttings to root indoors that I started to research what others have done and have oodles of paraphernalia that I've screwed around with to get good yields, though the indoor has never quite equaled the qualities outdoor plants. Not by a long shot.

The Sun, wind and rain, nature can certainly be beat as others who grow nothing but indoors can attest, but for pure maintenance free, relatively, environment outdoors is for me.

As we move toward fall and winter, the grow rooms (veg and flower ones) will get ever more activity, and be another aspect to learn more about it to be better at interior propagation.

So I think I've at least finished a basic apprenticeship.

I learned today that some plants refuse to be easily cloned by taking cutttings but will happily sprout roots in 2-3 weeks if using the Air Layered technique, the only one that has provided me with at least one healthy branch that may make it to transplant, and there is no real work involved since there is no rooting of the cutting off the plant to fuss around with.

This, today, looks very promising as a way of cloning these sativa plants.

Gotcha, not trying to be a negative Nelly. Best of luck.

Solar Flowered said:

I'd actually go a bit more basic. My ideal pH for clones is a 6.0. However, I use drops instead of a pen. The color that I look for is a corona beer yellow.

In regards to spraying.. they shouldn't need any spraying after the first day of cloning. When I first started to clones I didn't realize that I was over spraying the foliage in the first 5 days. I recommend spraying the underside of the dome, but only spray the foliage if needed. When I foliar spray I only do it once a day from days (2 until 7) in the morning. Just a light mist falling on foliage with one layer. Typically, I don't randomly spray clones after day 1 unless I left the dome off the tray for too long in week 1. I use a 2 foot t5 fluorescent bulb hovering about an inch over the dome for lighting.

Also, I think going past 93F with clones are in the trays can be a bit hazardous.. but they love 85F+ temps in my opinion. I just got lucky with my last clones came that from healthy mothers. It got up to 95F in the room and the clones took in less than 10 days. In my reservoir I use a light feeding of Cutting Edge Micro, Fox Farm Bloom, and Roots Excelurator with Alhambra water. I also find it helps if I drop the cubes down to 5.7 then I put them in a new container of Alhambra water to raise the pH up to 6.0. I also like to let my cubes soak for at least 24 hours so the lime can saturate in the water helping to drop overall cubes pH more consistently. If you want my nutrient breakdown, I can hook you up. Hope this helps!

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The bromothymol blue drops are notoriously inaccurate when measuring pH. My tap water reads almost purple blue....well over 8.0. And i know for a fact its about 7.0-7.5. Even them yellow cheapie chinese pens for 20$ arw better than drops. Get yerself a pen bro. 2 point calibration and keep it moist at all times. Calibrate about once a month. Put them drops away....

Go to your local pet store and look n the fish tank supplies, you will find a PH meter and a PPM meter both for $30 is what I recall.
I use the crappy yellow one.
My tap water PH is Always 7.2
so I use my tap water to adjust the meter once a month

Meters are easy to get and they are cheap and they give you lots of info to dial in a Grow.
Bless,
DZ

I cut clones with dirty snips, I rough up the outside and make an angular cut at the bottom and stick them in my clonex bottle for 15 seconds then I shove them in a cube.

I am still using the same bottle of clonex since I started cloning 2 years ago.

Maybe I have made 75 clones total since I started 3 years ago.

I stick them in Rock wool treated with 100 ppm of olivias cloning solution mixed with tap water and PH adjusted to 5.8-5.9.

I don't spray my clones or spray my hood, I do keep a cup of water under each hood then I dip the bottom of the 1" cubes in the nutrient I mixed when they feel to light.

The light gives me both my correct temp and RH at about 10 inches over the hood.

80 degrees
80% RH
+-2 on both

7 - 14 days under a Hood then put them in a larger cube.

Then I put the 1" cube in a 4" cube and back under a hood for 3 days.

The hood comes off and I double the light from 90 watt T5 to 180 watt and let
them veg till the roots are present out of the bottom of the 4" cube.
Usually 7-10 days.

I have 2 slow rooters out of my last 16 clones.
One showed a root today, the other is still doing fine just little slower.
Hopefully they are both rooted tomorrow.

Cloning seems very easy to me but I only have experience with 5 strains.

Bless,
DZ

Rooting cuttinge is cake..once u find a method its easy. Only problems arise for beginners and unknown strains. And root times is very much strain dependent. And where on the stock mother plant they are taken. Some strains jist naturally have more carbs and auxins in the branches than other varieties. Ive had cuts of some stuff root in 5 or 6 days. Other strains have taken 15 days or more. Some og's arw notorious for taking long to strike. Once u run a strain(s) for awhile your cloning is second nature.