First Time Grower Seeking Tips

The two most important things are good genetics and power, i.e., the sun or strong lighting. You might want to invest in some seeds. Trust me, that great smoke you remember didn't pass down those genes to the seeds you saved. Good genetics and power.

Also, I don't think growing is a one time thing. You learn it by doing, and that means over time. Especially when you're working alone and doing it yourself.

direstr8 said:

The two most important things are good genetics and power, i.e., the sun or strong lighting. You might want to invest in some seeds. Trust me, that great smoke you remember didn't pass down those genes to the seeds you saved. Good genetics and power.

Also, I don't think growing is a one time thing. You learn it by doing, and that means over time. Especially when you're working alone and doing it yourself.

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Well being in an apartment, I don't really have the sense of security that a homeowner would. This is just kinda dipping my feet into the water. If all goes well, once I actually own my own home, I may keep a steady grow going.

I took some time to look in all the nooks and crannies in my apt, and found what I think is a suitable place, in the top of the closet that houses the a/c unit. It has a bulb outlet not even a ft away from the top, so it should be close enough for the plants to not stretch, (hopefully).

This is what I have atm:


I also found a 13w CFL which is now on them. I probably need another one, or maybe even a stronger one, but I think they'll take to this one alot better than the regular bulb I was using.
Thoughts?

MadmanFox said:

Your plants are roughly as old as mine, and look at 'em. Damn, man I messed this grow up big time.

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They're just average, typical seedlings. Most people would have to try pretty damn hard to neglect their plants as much as you. Never grown a tomato? Any garden vegetables? Cannabis needs the same light, water and soil as any other garden plant.

MadmanFox said:

I took some time to look in all the nooks and crannies in my apt, and found what I think is a suitable place, in the top of the closet that houses the a/c unit. It has a bulb outlet not even a ft away from the top, so it should be close enough for the plants to not stretch, (hopefully).

This is what I have atm:
View attachment 2918708

I also found a 13w CFL which is now on them. I probably need another one, or maybe even a stronger one, but I think they'll take to this one alot better than the regular bulb I was using.
Thoughts?

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It *has* to be *much* closer to the bulb. Within 1-2 inches. Almost touching, but don't let it touch.

Dribbles said:

They're just average, typical seedlings. Most people would have to try pretty damn hard to neglect their plants as much as you. Never grown a tomato? Any garden vegetables? Cannabis needs the same light, water and soil as any other garden plant.

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You seem to say alot, without really offering any advice. I'm learning, hence the title "First Time Grower". I'm working with what I have and what little knowledge I have, which isn't much. So I'd really appreciate it if you'd let off with the douchy criticism. I came here for tips and advice to help me do better, not to have someone like you mock me for what I don't have or am not doing. So honestly, if you're just gonna pop in from time to time with some snarky remark, I'd rather you just pissed off altogether, mmkay? However, if you actually have some useful advice, I'd be happy to hear it.

Dribbles said:

It *has* to be *much* closer to the bulb. Within 1-2 inches. Almost touching, but don't let it touch.

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See? Now this is much better, thank you. From what I've read you need to "just" feel the heat on the back of your hand from the plant. In that area, that's the closest I can get it. I'm working on getting an actual setup going, but until then, this is better than a basic bulb, no?

MadmanFox said:

See? Now this is much better, thank you. From what I've read you need to "just" feel the heat on the back of your hand from the plant. In that area, that's the closest I can get it. I'm working on getting an actual setup going, but until then, this is better than a basic bulb, no?

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Yes, better than an incandescent, however, most the lumens are dissipated, weaker, and of little value to the plant beyond about 3 inches, so you want the leaves *within* 3" of the bulb so they can absorb as much light as they possibly can. A table or deak lamp that clips or even just stands next to the pot would be better until you arrange something more for it.

And I don't know how much air is on the plant, but you need to provide *just* enough of a breeze to make the leaves slightly shake, not blow around.

MadmanFox said:

You seem to say alot, without really offering any advice. I'm learning, hence the title "First Time Grower". I'm working with what I have and what little knowledge I have, which isn't much. So I'd really appreciate it if you'd let off with the douchy criticism. I came here for tips and advice to help me do better, not to have someone like you mock me for what I don't have or am not doing. So honestly, if you're just gonna pop in from time to time with some snarky remark, I'd rather you just pissed off altogether, mmkay? However, if you actually have some useful advice, I'd be happy to hear it.

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Also, with HPS and MH you don't need the bulbs so close to the plants, indeed, burning at around 1200oC they *have* to be further away than CFLs, but in the meantime all you really need to hide the plants and light is a large cardboard box, tiny fan and 1 CFL. Cardboard's not hard to cut into, so you can easily arrange it as an enclosure for the light and fan and plant. PC fans are by far the easiest and most energy efficient to run, anyhow the micro-grow forum has no shortage of examples of ingenious mini-cabinets from cardboard boxes right up to custom-made furniture with all the bells and whistles.

Gordo here, I am a new grower. I am on the learning curve. My seed is from bagweed, good smoke so good plants? I started with Miracle Grow potting soil. Lots of discussion about the Miracle Grow. I don't think it's worth the expense. I switch to a bag of regular potting soil, a bag of composted manure, and a bag of peat moss/perlite and I mix it in a plastic tote bin with lid. Three bags for less than the price of a bag of Miracle Grow. I use one pint clear rectangle containers that contained fresh blueberries from the grocery to start the seedlings. Plenty of pre-cut holes on the bottom for drainage. When the roots start showing up at the sides of the container, I move them into one gallon fabric grow bags. Top fill with a few tablespoons of high nitrogen bat guano. Use ten inch reflector brooder lights and a "Y" bulb adapter and use two 40W FEIT Electric CFL bulbs. Don't get the seven inch brooder light, won't work with the "Y" adapter. Get a timer to regulate the light(s). This is a hobby for me. I am much more relaxed now. No one does anything perfect the first time. What ever I get out of this is a bonus.

Gordo1959 said:

Gordo here, I am a new grower. I am on the learning curve. My seed is from bagweed, good smoke so good plants?....

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Sadly it's not quite that simple, but seed from killer bud *does* mean the likelyhood of growing out great buds.

If you take a super-delish tomato, squeeze out the seeds, ferment/dry and plant all of them, you'll get some short, some tall, some runty and sick looking, and a whole range of other variants. Now, odds are, half the seeds will be pretty close to a match for the 'mother' plant, but even amongst them you'll have some that will develop sweeter/tastier fruit even when given the exact same conditions and care.

All plants grown from seed have these random traits, it's the plants mechanism for adapting to unpredictable environment. By throwing out slightly different traits among her offspring, the parent plant creates seedlings that MAY be better adapted to drier conditions, insect and disease resistance, cold, hot, whatever.

Equally, a bunch of cannabis seeds from 1-cone bud can have mixed traits: Some will grow faster, some slower, some will handle bug attacks better than others, and of course one of these traits is potency. Until you've grown the plant out and harvested/dried/cured then finally smoked the bud you can't know how potent the smoke will be.

So although a percentage of the seeds will turn out to be the same potency (give or take) as the buds they came from there's no guarantee, owing to the randomness of plants

Just got the first upgrade to my setup, got myself a 23w 2700k 1600 lumen bulb, and have it set up in an office lamp (figured the reflectors would help) I have it as close as I feel is safe to the plants, 2-3 inches. However, most of my research points to me needing 3-4 of these types per plant. Is that referring to large/average size plants, and can I get by with this cfl during the night, and sun during the day, during veggie stage if I'm aiming for a small, stealthy grow?

Also, I was looking at HID lights, but I don't think I can use those in regular socket, can I? I found one that's 100w, which, from what I've read is the wattage you need per plant. Just wondering if I'd be able to use that light in say an office lamp with reflectors?

You can indeed get away with sunlight in the day, if you don't mind moving it back-and-forth, but for vegetative growth you'll want to seek out CFLs with 5000-6500k colour output. If you can't find bulbs that specify the color in Ks, go for "daylight". Warm white's (2700k) are best suited for flowering. The reason daylight or 5000-6500k bulbs are beat for vege-growth is the plant can use more of the light of that color (bluish tinged) during it's veg stage.

And no, no, you cannot use an HPS or MH bulb in a regular light socket. These lights come with their own ballast, socket and reflector generally. You CAN buy just the ballast, or reflector or bulns, but you need all three anyhow so they're usually bought as a bundle. Next time you're out at night at a shopping centre or other public car-parking area, take a look at the bright orange lights that're turning the entire area orange: that's an HPS light, and essentially (minus the pole), what you'll be stuffing in your apartment if you buy an HID lamp.

A 100w HID won't be quite as bright OR hot as the 400 watters they use in car-parks, but it's basically the same light.

You also need to give the seedlings some darkness every day. The whole 24/0 lighting schedule is fulla crap: plants turn light into sugars during the day, then consume these sugars at night. You can see this by watching a (healthy) seedling carefully if you have the time: all day long it seems to just .. Sit there doing f-all, then the mext morning - mysteriously - it seems to have grown a little.

I would hypothesize that plants in-fact do *no* growing during the day, simply photosynth. Then do their growing in the dark.

I'd suggest a cheap $4-5 timer to automatically turn your light(s) *ON* 16-18 hours and *OFF* 6-8 hours each day: it'll make lofe much easier for you and the seedlings. Any cheap "wind-up" looking ones will do, and they're usually $10 for a twin-pack at any hardware store.

I appreciate all the info. I was looking at hps lights and hid lights online to try and get an idea of what I need. I'm worried about using those simply because of the reported power increase. I know of two growers/dealers that both got busted by the cops investigating a "power spike". I did stumble upon LED lights, the UFO's. But I couldn't find any reliable info on them. Most of the old school growers don't wanna risk them not being up to par and recommend against them without trying. Therefore, I can't seem to find any suitable info on someone who's actually grown them with LED's. The one in particular I was looking at was this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-7-BAND-Hydroponic-135w-UFO-LED-Plant-Grow-Light-3-Watt-LEDs-135-Watt-/330949977146

According to HTG you can use it throughout the life of the plant since it covers all the spectrums the plants thrive on. However, me not being a naive consumer, I know that anything the company that sells the product says has to be taken with a grain of salt. Seems almost too easy and too good to be true. One light that stays on all the time and covers all your plants needs? I am def skeptical, but the science fits..

I just wanted to update. I have the same 23w 2700k cfl on it now, and I added another cfl, only it's a 13w, just for the extra benefit. I have reflective material around the 2nd lamp since it doesn't have reflectors, and I have it in a room under a ceiling fan light combo that's housing 5 more 13w cfls.

I did some more reading and was wondering if they actually need anything extra at this time? They are in the seedling stage, and haven't yet reached vegetative. I know that vegetative and flowering are when the light is the most important, so am I safe to hold off on buying anything else until then? I moved them out of the closet because the plant wasn't close enough to the light so now both the 23w and the 13w are about 2-3 inches from the tops of the first true leaves.

Sorry for the constant posting, I just wanna give 'em the best chance I can. Especially since I messed up so much in the beginning.

MadmanFox said:

I just wanted to update. I have the same 23w 2700k cfl on it now, and I added another cfl, only it's a 13w, just for the extra benefit. I have reflective material around the 2nd lamp since it doesn't have reflectors, and I have it in a room under a ceiling fan light combo that's housing 5 more 13w cfls.

I did some more reading and was wondering if they actually need anything extra at this time? They are in the seedling stage, and haven't yet reached vegetative. I know that vegetative and flowering are when the light is the most important, so am I safe to hold off on buying anything else until then? I moved them out of the closet because the plant wasn't close enough to the light so now both the 23w and the 13w are about 2-3 inches from the tops of the first true leaves.

Sorry for the constant posting, I just wanna give 'em the best chance I can. Especially since I messed up so much in the beginning.

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Well, the seedling stage *is* vegetative stage, but it's quite acceptable to just throw a few CFLs on em whilst they still have so few leaves. Technically, the more light you give them from the very first leaves, the faster they'll take off, but it's arguably not worth the power at that stage of their lives so a couple CFLs is quite fine.

you should start seeing improvements now you've surrounded em with a bit more light. I usually find seedlings show more notable growth in the morning when I check on em, oddly. As long as the CFLs are within a few inches and they have a slight breeze, that's about all they need for right now yup. Water as needed, but don't allow the soil to stay soggy continuously since bacteria underground can quickly kill a seedling at that age. As the plants grow, they'll drink more just in the course of their growing but right now, evaporation causes most of the water/moisture loss.

If there's room in the pot I would recommend carefully topping it up to the rim, just to give the stretched stems some added support, and there's no need to fertilize for a couple of weeks yet. Also, fight the urge to bother with PH: soil grown plants in potting mix DO sometimes need PH adjustments, but there're just so many threads here where new growers THINK the PH needs to be tested/adjusted, and end up ruining the plants AND the soil messing with it.

In 19 years of growing - in ordinary hardware-store potting mix - everything from basil to salvia to mustard, opium poppies and cannabis, I've not once altered the PH of the soil and never had any issue relating to it. I've had plants die on me for a variety of reasons, but never because the soils' PH. Plants can tolerate PH being a bit up or down just fine.

So perhaps: top up the pot to support those stretchy stems, make sure the seedlings get at least 4-6 hours of dark each day, leave the fan on 24/7 but low enough to just make the leaves/plants "jiggle", not blow around, and oh and try to water in a 'ring' around the base of the seedlings, not right on em: plants grow stronger roots when they are made to seek-out their water a bit.

Warmth is also important during vege stage, but without intense light it can cause stems to stretch, so under a few CFLs cool should slow their already stretched stems elongating further. If it's comfortable for you (temperature-wise) then it's within a good range for the plants.

Yeah assuming they keep getting their 16 or so hours light per day and have a slight breeze, you should see positive changes within a day or two, and notable improvement within a week. The seedling stage is pretty slow, but once they start stackong a few pairs of leaves, they'll just keep stacking faster and faster at which point you'll wanna have the grow environment pretty much sorted, but yeah they won't go this slow forever

Whatever you do, don't let them get more than 12 hours or more of darkness per day: once they start getting 12 or more hours darkness they will slow down to a halt, then start flowering, which you don't want yet. Keep the hours of uninterupted light above 14 hours to be sure, and they'll start goin!

Wait, one thing you certainly should buy is one tem cheap timers to auto-manage your lights for you. Random lighting schedules can mess around with plants a bit, but mostly it's just so much easier when you don't have to stress about forgetting to turn the lights on every day. $5, every hardware store. Set and forget! x

You've been very helpful, cheers. I'll keep the lights on them, alternating into sunlight during the day, and I left the ceiling fan on to give them a breeze due to the CFL's heat, just to be safe. Kinda have to make special accommodations for 'em to keep the house at 70, (I usually keep my house around 65, I love the cold) but for my plants I've left the heater on more . I will def get a timer, since my sleeping schedule is so off, (work nights, and sleep during the day, I don't wanna risk early flowering, like you said.

I think I'm good for now then, I'll post back once they start growing leaves and growing a bit faster, I'll be back with updates then

Thanks again!

You can pretty well leave the heater off, they'll get a little ambient warmth from the lights if they're close, and with the stretchy stems, 65 should be fine. A sure sign they're picking-up is the sunflower-like tilting of the growing tips towards the light. This is known as phototropism, and is a rather endearing way plants try to maximize the light they're absorbing. They'll tilt their heads to face the brightest light-source, and if they all start facing one light or another you can pretty much switch the other lights off until they have a few growing tips.

Yeah I'll be interested in seeing pics when they've improved