First Worm Tea, thoughts?

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Logik287

Member
Re-posting in the right thread (Hopefully)


I've been growing in coco/perlite mix with drain-to-waste watering from 35 gal res currently using advanced nutrients sensi coco A&B (Until I finally finish what i have, bag of Mega crop to replace the bottles) under quantum boards.

I am finding myself moving away from synthetic nutrients. I wanted to get my coco amped up, so I've decided to add a weekly tea to my regiment. I think I may have things a little conflated when it comes to beneficial bacteria and fungi.

I don't have access to compost currently, so I have got my hands on a few things to hopefully brew up something beneficial.

I have a 5 gal bucket with air stone, my recipe will be as follows with a 24 hour bubble before feeding:
1 T alfalfa meal
1 1/2 cup worm castings
1.5 T of humic/fulvic/kelp blend
1 T of molasses powder

I also have some stage 2 pondzyme H&G multi zen and a mycorrhizae/trichoderma blend. From what I gather, i think I will add 1 tsp of the myco/tricho blend to my tea right before applying, not sure if I should include any of the zyme or zen.

Would love some insight from fellow growers! Do I have this shit all wrong?

Do you pH your tea at any point in the process?
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure about your plan. I don't think a pure coco medium supports bacteria or mycho and it's atypical to combine organic with coco. Some people have 1/2 coco 1/2 soil mix and i never figured out why they do but they say its then the same as a soil grow.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Saw this in the indoor forum & wanted to help but not sure how I could other than smashing your dreams of organic bliss. Giving an organic tea in a hydroponic system is asking for trouble as the bacteria you grow can mess with the ph in your res. Teas do more to promote microbial activity and increase their population than actually feeding the plants which is usually the opposite of what you want in a sterile hydro medium.
Synthetic nutes are a death sentence for microbes and bacteria; dissolved salts can dry out their bodies. Pondzyme is basically a form of pool shock; it will kill off bacteria and algae in the reservoir along with whatever was living in the tea. Perlite and coco can be populated by microbes in an aact but once you give anything other than water your microherd hiding in the tiny nooks and crannies will slowly begin to become extinct.
Hate to give out advice that is probably not what you wanted to hear but organic growers do not need to adjust ph of their tea for proper absorption because it is the soil itself that sets the ph. PH is not really much of an issue in living soil grows as it is regulated by microbial activity and overall soil composition. As long as it is properly limed ph is a pretty much a non issue when growing in organic soil. So I say grow in a “mostly water only” living soil mix or stay with the nutes. It can get complex to try to straddle both disciplines and I’ve yet seen anyone who is pulling it off with any success.
 
L

Logik287

Member
Thank you for the input!

I am planning on hand watering the tea on a weekly basis. So not to add it to my res, but a soil drench instead. My reservoir would continue to feed on a daily basis 24 hours after the drench.

I'd recently read about the importance of healthy bacteria and fungi in coco. Maybe I have conflated organic growing methods here.

This is unfortunate to hear, I will definitely be doing some further research. From what I had gathered, feeding synthetic nutrients is compatible with a healthy microbiome in coco, but there was definitely some conflicting information on the topic. I guess worst case I'd be simply wasting my time by adding my weekly tea.

It seems I may have a few things confused. I was under the impression that pondzyme is just beneficial bacteria?

Alright this is great to know. I am currently educating myself, and planning on experimenting with a no-till grow in the next couple weeks. So it seems I am slowly gravitating away from synthetic nutrients anyways.
 
L

Logik287

Member
I've come across a few interesting articles. This seems to be a hotly debated topic, whether synthetic nutrients will kill off your bene's. As with most cannabis topics, I can find reputable sources that argue either side leaving me right where I started :wall:

Some articles for the use of beneficial's /w synthetic nutrients:
thetyedyediguana.com

Do My Plants Need Added Beneficial Bacteria?

You can get bigger growth and better yields from your plants by introducing beneficial bacteria to the root zone. And it works for growing in soil or hydroponics.
thetyedyediguana.com thetyedyediguana.com
www.gardenmyths.com

Does Fertilizer Kill Soil Bacteria?

Do synthetic fertilizers kill bacteria in soil? Is the soil food web right? Find out what really happens in the soil after adding fertilizer.
www.gardenmyths.com www.gardenmyths.com

I see that my ponzyme is actually just "natural enzymes" so will have no benefit to my tea (picked this stuff up from recommendation of a friend but have yet to use it http://www.carefreeenzymes.com/products/birding/fountain/pond-and-fountain-protector/). I was mistaken in thinking that this was bacillus cultures like hydroguard.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
I am sure it could be done; there is such a thing as soup style organics. I know I’ve see growers in coco giving soluble organic liquids in more than a few commercial grows. I have tried doing it this way with Aurora “organic” nutrients but can tell you from experience that growing in an active living soil is far less effort for even better end results. You just water the plants; could not be easier. Maybe give an occasional tea to keep the party rocking.
Thing about soup style is you need to provide a form of soluble NPK that is not only safe for microbial and fungal life but also gives what they need when they need it. That’s not always simple when you got several different bottles of stuff. I never quite got the balance right myself. That is until I discovered the simplicity of clean water, compost and living soil.
Everyone is looking for a simple approach that encompasses the best of both worlds: An end product that tastes as if it was grown organically with the ease of opening a bottle. There’s a million products out there trying to fill this void. They all say “organic” but that is because there’s no authority actually holding them to that claim.
I have learned that only those bottles that are listed OMRI on the label are guaranteed to be safe for living soil grows. It’s not easy to bottle up active organic liquids as anything that is living will not store on a shelf for long before going anaerobic. Recharge is like the one exception I can think of; powdered sea monkey microbes. Add water & watch em grow!!
Whatever you happen to add that is detrimental to the microlife can be reversed by adding back more compost or aact tea regiment. It’s just that you are setting up a cycle of death and rebirth that could easily be avoided by simply giving plain old water the whole time. Do yourself a favor and do a run in natural living soil. Doubt youll regret it.
 
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Logik287

Member
Richard Drysift said:
I am sure it could be done; there is such a thing as soup style organics. I know I’ve see growers in coco giving soluble organic liquids in more than a few commercial grows. I have tried doing it this way with Aurora “organic” nutrients but can tell you from experience that growing in an active living soil is far less effort for even better end results. You just water the plants; could not be easier. Maybe give an occasional tea to keep the party rocking.
Thing about soup style is you need to provide a form of soluble NPK that is not only safe for microbial and fungal life but also gives what they need when they need it. That’s not always simple when you got several different bottles of stuff. I never quite got the balance right myself. That is until I discovered the simplicity of clean water, compost and living soil.
Everyone is looking for a simple approach that encompasses the best of both worlds: An end product that tastes as if it was grown organically with the ease of opening a bottle. There’s a million products out there trying to fill this void. They all say “organic” but that is because there’s no authority actually holding them to that claim.
I have learned that only those bottles that are listed OMRI on the label are guaranteed to be safe for living soil grows. It’s not easy to bottle up active organic liquids as anything that is living will not store on a shelf for long before going anaerobic. Recharge is like the one exception I can think of; powdered sea monkey microbes. Add water & watch em grow!!
Whatever you happen to add that is detrimental to the microlife can be reversed by adding back more compost or aact tea regiment. It’s just that you are setting up a cycle of death and rebirth that could easily be avoided by simply giving plain old water the whole time. Do yourself a favor and do a run in natural living soil. Doubt youll regret it.
Click to expand...
Richard, thank you again for the great input, really do appreciate you taking the time to share the knowledge!

I'm definitely not married to my synthetic nutrients, my ultimate goal has been to keep things simple and scale-able while getting good results. When I first started growing, it seemed that organic was alot trickier to get into. Buying a couple bottles from the store was the easiest way to get started. For years now I have been mixing endless jugs and reservoirs of nutes and constantly adjusting a rising pH in my feeding reservoirs. Water only feeding, with the odd tea, sounds like an absolute dream (not to mention the other benefits of organic).

Funny that you mention Recharge, this was one of the products that really got me interested in a healthy rhizosphere, but I was unable to find a reasonably priced supplier in Canada (amazon.ca sells an 8oz bag for $203).

That's great to hear! I am getting really excited to try my first living soil grow, the more that I learn about it, the more I realize this is exactly where I want to be. Is there any specific soil recipes, or all-encompassing guides you would recommend for living soil?

I plan on converting one of my 4x4 tents to living soil as soon as this crop is finished. I have my eye on either a 100 or 150 gallon round living soil pot (https://www.grassrootsfabricpots.com/living-soil-pots-and-beds/) or the 3x3/4x4 raised bed. Which would you recommend for a tent that size?
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Hydroponics are great if a return on investment is the goal but if you just want top notch bud for your own use with minimal efforts living soil is the way to go IMHO.
For a 4x4 tent I would go with 7 gal pots; 10g if you have a strong back. Filling that much soil sounds like more work than necessary but then again I’m lazy AF.
Two books I highly recommend are here in my thread. They contain mostly all you need to know about living soil grows.

Dick does dank 2.0

This chronicle is the sum of all I know. Everything I have learned thus far about growing cannabis was either from reading posts by enlightened growers here at rollitup or from these two books which are highly recommended: True Living Organics by The Rev Teaming with Microbes by Lowenfels and...
www.rollitup.org
 
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Logik287

Member
Hahahah ok awesome, I have plenty of 7 and 10 gal smart pots :bigjoint:

I had read that the larger the container, the better for living soil. Seeing alot of guys growing in rows of the rectangular 4' wide raised planters, they looked quite clean and caught my eye.

Looks like I have alot of reading to do, thank you sir!
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Logik287 said:
Hahahah ok awesome, I have plenty of 7 and 10 gal smart pots :bigjoint:

I had read that the larger the container, the better for living soil. Seeing alot of guys growing in rows of the rectangular 4' wide raised planters, they looked quite clean and caught my eye.

Looks like I have alot of reading to do, thank you sir!
Click to expand...
Yes, bigger is better for living soil or no-till. I use 15 gal pots, but that's kinda the minimum for no-till.

I also rotate my no-till pots. I use a handcart to bring them downstairs after harvest, and then bring the oldest pot upstairs for a new plant. It's no fun pulling that shit up the stairs even with the handcart though.
 
L

Logik287

Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Yes, bigger is better for living soil or no-till. I use 15 gal pots, but that's kinda the minimum for no-till.

I also rotate my no-till pots. I use a handcart to bring them downstairs after harvest, and then bring the oldest pot upstairs for a new plant. It's no fun pulling that shit up the stairs even with the handcart though.
Click to expand...
Right on! Going to be doing some further planning before I get my living soil grow going. Hoping that a couple 10 gal planters will be a good place to start, as I have a few already. Will probably invest in some larger ones down the road.

So much to learn with a new method, very stoked to get things going.
 
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