first year pests

pope creek · Aug 10, 2015

Started a new garden this year. 100% organic. Feeding via mulch, compost tea and fish emulsion.
3 weeks into bud and things are looking good for the most part except for a recent infestation of thrips.
Lower leaves are suffering most. Tops seem vigorous.
I'm not sure how to proceed. The plants are pretty mature and will probably resist attack enough to finish but how badly will yield be effected?
I don't want to use store bought poisons and don't know how effective home made sprays would be as my garden is crowded and big and hard to spray thoroughly. Also I don't want to harm beneficial bugs like mantis and spiders.
Also, some plants dropping a lot of lower leaves. Could be a deficiency. Curious about feeding routines for bud stage.
Lastly we are surrounded by wild fires this year. Lots of ash and smoke in the air. Wondering about effects. I know wood ash is good stuff but what about smoke?
Thanks.

Richard Drysift · Aug 10, 2015

Spinosad is 100% organic & omri rated safe for consumables- just spray the affected leaves once & the thrips will be gone. The bud will be safe to smoke too as spinosad dissapates into the air in about 7 days & leaves no residue- check out Monterey Garden Insect Spray w/spinosad, the shit works great. Only thing is that leaf looks more like a deficiency than thrip damage but I could be wrong.

pope creek · Aug 10, 2015

Hi,
Thanks for replying. I've heard good things about spinozade. Great stuff. Apparently of was discovered in an abandoned Haitian rum distillery by a botanist on holiday.
One thing I heard was that it's not good to use during flowering. Can't remember where I read that and not certain it's true.
Also not happy about killing the good bugs that are present. I think it takes time for the bugs to find their balance. I have been actively feeding the soil with all kinds of organic material and have created a hot spot of rich green stuff in the middle of these arid fields. Not surprising the bugs have come in droves. I think the theory is that given time and good management, everything balances and good conditions prevail.
So I am still not sure what to do.

You mention a deficiency and I'm thinking I agree.
Not sure what type though.
I fed them mostly fish emulsion early on. Also mulched with alfalfa and sweepings from a hen house. There is cow, horse and deer shit in the soil too. Having said that, the basic soil is very poor, just dust really. So I ammend as I go.
As I move into bud phase I have fed compost tea which has mollasus, compost, guano, accumulator plants, kelp meal and stuff I think contains potassium like banana peel.
I only dilute about 1/3. Maybe its too rich ?
Really I need some advice on what I ought to be feeding them.

greasemonkeymann · Aug 11, 2015

pope creek said:
Hi,
Thanks for replying. I've heard good things about spinozade. Great stuff. Apparently of was discovered in an abandoned Haitian rum distillery by a botanist on holiday.
One thing I heard was that it's not good to use during flowering. Can't remember where I read that and not certain it's true.
Also not happy about killing the good bugs that are present. I think it takes time for the bugs to find their balance. I have been actively feeding the soil with all kinds of organic material and have created a hot spot of rich green stuff in the middle of these arid fields. Not surprising the bugs have come in droves. I think the theory is that given time and good management, everything balances and good conditions prevail.
So I am still not sure what to do.

You mention a deficiency and I'm thinking I agree.
Not sure what type though.
I fed them mostly fish emulsion early on. Also mulched with alfalfa and sweepings from a hen house. There is cow, horse and deer shit in the soil too. Having said that, the basic soil is very poor, just dust really. So I ammend as I go.
As I move into bud phase I have fed compost tea which has mollasus, compost, guano, accumulator plants, kelp meal and stuff I think contains potassium like banana peel.
I only dilute about 1/3. Maybe its too rich ?
Really I need some advice on what I ought to be feeding them.

Those look pretty great for being in a basic "poor" soil, not bad at all.
Usually outdoors thrips aren't an issue, are you sure it's not a transient bug? Baby grasshoppers, leafhoppers, lil bitches like those?
As far as feeding them, they look pretty good, i'd stay with the topdressing, be careful feeding molasses, unless you use it as just a compost microbial tea, but as a nutrient it can screw things up.
Outside though, those roots are picking up a lot of stuff you'd normally not get in a container so that's good.
now, as far ad you ashes and smoke question... THAT can be a problem.. I have seen some nice herb that's coated with forest fire residue and it smokes weird and makes your throat and lungs burn... i'm not a doctor, and i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but that's sounds like it's not good for ya..
You could treat it similarly to a bad powder mold problem and "wash/soak" your nugs after.. if the smoke is already gone, you could also just squirt down your plants every day for like a couple weeks to wash them, but i'd do that now, instead of waiting for buds to form..

greasemonkeymann · Aug 11, 2015

pope creek said:
Hi,
Thanks for replying. I've heard good things about spinozade. Great stuff. Apparently of was discovered in an abandoned Haitian rum distillery by a botanist on holiday.
One thing I heard was that it's not good to use during flowering. Can't remember where I read that and not certain it's true.
Also not happy about killing the good bugs that are present. I think it takes time for the bugs to find their balance. I have been actively feeding the soil with all kinds of organic material and have created a hot spot of rich green stuff in the middle of these arid fields. Not surprising the bugs have come in droves. I think the theory is that given time and good management, everything balances and good conditions prevail.
So I am still not sure what to do.

You mention a deficiency and I'm thinking I agree.
Not sure what type though.
I fed them mostly fish emulsion early on. Also mulched with alfalfa and sweepings from a hen house. There is cow, horse and deer shit in the soil too. Having said that, the basic soil is very poor, just dust really. So I ammend as I go.
As I move into bud phase I have fed compost tea which has mollasus, compost, guano, accumulator plants, kelp meal and stuff I think contains potassium like banana peel.
I only dilute about 1/3. Maybe its too rich ?
Really I need some advice on what I ought to be feeding them.

ah and the lower leaves dropping could simply be from shading, that's a big girl ya got there, brother.

pope creek · Aug 11, 2015

Hi, thanks for replying.
Pretty sure it's thrips. They are tiny and hard to see but damage shows on the leaves.
I had a Leaf Hopper attack earlier in the season. They were doing some damage but I hand picked them off and slowly got the better of them.
I have seen Grasshoppers destroy a grove of young olives in a day. Thankfully, they are not swarming here this summer.

I think I'll give the girls a good shower. Wash off soot and bugs.

I'm using molasses sparely. Just a little added to my teas. Bubbled a couple of days then served as soil drench at 3/1 dilution.

I believe there is a little imbalance in the diet. Have I been too heavy with N? Could that lock out some other nutes? The yellow leaf with green ribs could be magnesium or manganese deficiency. I notice my squash are growing well but producing little fruit. Tomatoes are great though.

pope creek · Aug 11, 2015

Over all, I think the plants are doing OK. Say B+.
Scared that if I start fiddling with nutes I could make things worse. Plus given the slow nature of breakdown it maybe too late to fix organically. Refuse to use chemicals.

st0wandgrow · Aug 11, 2015

Nice lookin plant pope! You should be able to see thrips with the naked eye. They leave a silvery looking blemish on the leaf and there are usually little black turds of theirs right beside the damage. As mentioned above, spinosad will work just fine, or you can use a neem spray (or Azomax) to knock them down.

pope creek · Aug 11, 2015

"...They leave a silvery looking blemish on the leaf and there are usually little black turds of theirs right beside the damage. ..."
Exactly what I see. Check the pic. Just concerned that Spinosade may damage flowers. Are you it's safe at this stage?
Also have a problem with killing beneficials but would probably go for it if I new my spiders would return.
Also not sure where to buy it. Is it something they carry at most garden stores?
Thanks for the advice. It really helps to be able to run stuff by you knowledgeable gardeners.

greasemonkeymann · Aug 11, 2015

pope creek said:
"...They leave a silvery looking blemish on the leaf and there are usually little black turds of theirs right beside the damage. ..."
Exactly what I see. Check the pic. Just concerned that Spinosade may damage flowers. Are you it's safe at this stage?
Also have a problem with killing beneficials but would probably go for it if I new my spiders would return.
Also not sure where to buy it. Is it something they carry at most garden stores?
Thanks for the advice. It really helps to be able to run stuff by you knowledgeable gardeners.

maybe it's just me, but when I do outside plants, I sorta sacrifice some of the plants lower growth to the bugs that eat it, never have much problems with anything.
I treat it kinda like a peace treaty... leave my colas alone, and you can munch on the undergrowth..
but hey man, i'm a pacifist

Richard Drysift · Aug 11, 2015

I had thrips last run - I grow indoors- and my plants were in mid flower. Spraying the leaves or even the buds with spinosad will not affect the flowers as long as you have a week or so for it to dissapate. Neem oil is also very effective but takes a bit longer as it works from the inside out- the buggers have to ingest it first and then they will not mate or eat again & then die off slowly. Neem will only affect leaf munchers like thrips or caterpillars; not the beneficial mites & nematodes active in your soil. You really don't want to get neem oil on your buds either but you can add neem oil or neem meal as an amendment which will get in the roots and prevent thrips in the future. I found both the Monterey garden insect spray with spinosad and the neem oil from amazon for like $14.

ResinDabz · Aug 12, 2015

I got some bud worms like 3 weeks into budding kinda stacking on the buds right now and I just noticed them and freaked me out, I was reading the bud worm season thread everyone was talking about spraying "BT" but one person said that monterey with spinosad works great on them too or should I neem them? first outdoor grow pls help,!.

pope creek · Aug 12, 2015

I have never really had a problem with worms or catapillars. I grow outdoors and normally only lose a handfull of bud out of pounds.
I think between birds and toads they are held in check.
If you have a small grow I'd hand pick and use one of those bacteria treatments.
The threads in the plant problem forum contain more good info than bad and are a wonderful resource.

pope creek · Aug 12, 2015

Richard,
Thanks for all the detailed info on Spinosade and Neem Oil.
I am familier with Neem but have never used it. I did not realize it's bug specific and won't harm the soil. That makes it pretty benign.
I trust it doesn't affect the plant adversely. No bad tastes or smells.
The fact both can be applied by soil drench is great. Who wants to spray?!
Truthfully, at this moment,

I'm more worried by the leaf drop the plants are suffering.
I believe it's a deficiency. Maybe Potassium, Magnesium or Manganese - I have been studying the diagnosis threads - but I'm not sure which one.
I am feeding a tea which ought to supply all needs but it doesn't seem to help. Perhaps it's made it worse. Not sure what the cause is but the loss is starting to be a concern.
At first only lower leaves, but now middle ones too.
They turn yellow, though in many cases the veins stay green, later they become necrotic then shrivel and die.
I stripped away all the dead and dying and am unhappy to find not much left of the bottom third of the plant. Tops are still fine. My fear is that the trouble will continue to climb.
PH of the well water I use is fine. PH of soil untested but clearly in range.
Yet my hunch is something is getting locked out .
Can I pick your brains?

greasemonkeymann · Aug 12, 2015

ResinDabz said:
I got some bud worms like 3 weeks into budding kinda stacking on the buds right now and I just noticed them and freaked me out, I was reading the bud worm season thread everyone was talking about spraying "BT" but one person said that monterey with spinosad works great on them too or should I neem them? first outdoor grow pls help,!.

pope creek said:
I have never really had a problem with worms or catapillars. I grow outdoors and normally only lose a handfull of bud out of pounds.
I think between birds and toads they are held in check.
If you have a small grow I'd hand pick and use one of those bacteria treatments.
The threads in the plant problem forum contain more good info than bad and are a wonderful resource.

Man... I have had problems with catterpillers twice, and they are hands down (with respects to spider mites) the QUICKEST way to fuck up your buds, and the shitty thing is, you'll never see them until the buds dry up, they like the nugs too, those lil fuckers...
look for ANY color differences on the overall greenness, that's where they are, get a flashlight and a paperclip that is sharpened on one end.
look for little black caterpillar shits... and follow the trail.
they eat FAST, so go through your entire plant, and they aren't transient, they are fat and lazy, but they don't STOP EATING...
anyways... good luck man, the way I got rid of them is to go through and pick them all off. its tedious, but if they are flowering that's your only option.
you could spray, but I've never done that, the two times I got them were VERY late in flowering... like the end..

pope creek · Aug 12, 2015

Wicked creatures.

greasemonkeymann · Aug 12, 2015

pope creek said:
Wicked creatures.

wicked HUNGRY too..

ResinDabz · Aug 12, 2015

I just picked out like 20 of those bastards ):>[

pope creek · Aug 12, 2015

Smash em, dabz.

ResinDabz · Aug 17, 2015

WOW! I'm pretty much marking this plant a lost cause but a lesson learned! );>( Serious stuff these guys, it's 1 outta my 8 from seed and it started budding early, good plant too alot of trichome production was going on (ripped bubba) must of been why it was targeted. it now has significant bud dmg. I just sprayed my whole garden with BT the other 7 seem to have been left alone, they're still early on the budding so I'm hoping I can prevent the rest of my garden from getting the same budworms. I'd be happy knowing it's sacrifice was not in vain!.. Warning to all new outdoor farmers Beware! Spray for budworms in the early stages of budding if not netted properly!

first year pests

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