Flowering dry ammendments, how heavy?

john wishmyer

john wishmyer

Well-Known Member
Hey everyone! Been messing around with organics after my first grew( grew with bottled nutes) after that i knew i never wanted to go down that route again. Anyway, i have 0-12-0 Seabird guano for my phosphorus and 0-0-22 Langbienite for my potassium. How heavy should i go for each the final home if my pots is a 3 gal fabric pot. Id like to get the measurements just perfect, if i can. i know each plant varies due to some being heavy feeders and some arent. So what id like to hear is some personal thoughts on how heavy you’d go, ive always seen amazing results of organic outdoor dense buds and have yet to achieve them. Any help is greately appreciated. Im attaching photos of my current plants, the soil they are in is recycled compost soil
with worm castings as well as live worms, ive also added kelp meal jut to get them through vegg.
 

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Northwood

Well-Known Member
john wishmyer said:
Id like to get the measurements just perfect, if i can. i know each plant varies due to some being heavy feeders and some arent.
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If you stop thinking about feeding your plants, you'll never need to worry how heavy feeding some strains are... or any for that matter. Those are pretty high numbers for P&K for organic amendments. Hopefully little of it is in bio-available form and is locked up the way it should be. That's why I use things like greensand and rock phosphates instead. Forget the silly plants, and worry about feeding your bacteria and fungi and other organisms in your soil. The plants will know what they need, when they need it, and will signal other soil life to provide it for them. Worm castings are great! But the bacteria it introduces must be nurtured throughout the grow - meaning adding nothing that might upset the balance of organisms that your root exudates are signalling for.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
john wishmyer said:
Hey everyone! Been messing around with organics after my first grew( grew with bottled nutes) after that i knew i never wanted to go down that route again. Anyway, i have 0-12-0 Seabird guano for my phosphorus and 0-0-22 Langbienite for my potassium. How heavy should i go for each the final home if my pots is a 3 gal fabric pot. Id like to get the measurements just perfect, if i can. i know each plant varies due to some being heavy feeders and some arent. So what id like to hear is some personal thoughts on how heavy you’d go, ive always seen amazing results of organic outdoor dense buds and have yet to achieve them. Any help is greately appreciated. Im attaching photos of my current plants, the soil they are in is recycled compost soil
with worm castings as well as live worms, ive also added kelp meal jut to get them through vegg.
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the amount will depend on how big your plants are. if they are small, i would do no more than 1/8c of each. if they are larger, i would go with 1/4c of each. blend them with some fresh compost and topdress.

both the amendments you mentions should have little that is soluble, and be a good long term release form of nutrition.

Northwood said:
If you stop thinking about feeding your plants, you'll never need to worry how heavy feeding some strains are... or any for that matter. Those are pretty high numbers for P&K for organic amendments. Hopefully little of it is in bio-available form and is locked up the way it should be. That's why I use things like greensand and rock phosphates instead. Forget the silly plants, and worry about feeding your bacteria and fungi and other organisms in your soil. The plants will know what they need, when they need it, and will signal other soil life to provide it for them. Worm castings are great! But the bacteria it introduces must be nurtured throughout the grow - meaning adding nothing that might upset the balance of organisms that your root exudates are signalling for.
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regardless of the plant growing itself, it cannot do that if you don't supply it with the materials necessary for growth. i've found that using topdressings about week 3 of flower to carry them to the bitter end has been very beneficial and increased my yield by 25% compared to the standard cootz recipe. but i totally agree with your ideology, i just wanted to see the boost i knew the plants were capable of! Cheers
 
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Northwood

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
the amount will depend on how big your plants are. if they are small, i would do no more than 1/8c of each.
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Personally for organic growing, I would increase the volume of soil rather than the concentration of added nutrients if you want to grow large plants. Bacteria and fungi do best with "regular" amounts of compounds and elements, as found in regular soil and ample organic matter. A top dress of worm castings will never hurt at any stage of growth, especially if you don't have your soil organisms running at full speed. But I've taken many grows from seed to harvest with plain water (like my current grow), and didn't notice any difference in yield or size of buds.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
Personally for organic growing, I would increase the volume of soil rather than the concentration of added nutrients if you want to grow large plants. Bacteria and fungi do best with "regular" amounts of compounds and elements, as found in regular soil and ample organic matter. A top dress of worm castings will never hurt at any stage of growth, especially if you don't have your soil organisms running at full speed. But I've taken many grows from seed to harvest with plain water (like my current grow), and didn't notice any difference in yield or size of buds.
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all different ways of getting to the finish line :)
 
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Northwood

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
all different ways of getting to the finish line :)
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Yeah but for me in my advancing age, the least amount of fuss and work is the best! LOL

I don't even hardly disturb my soil before the next grows. Worms mix it up and disturb it enough. I figure the roots and underground stalks of my old plants in there are free organic matter to feed my next grow, along with keeping that fungi network intact. The underground part of a cannabis plant represents a significant part of its biomass - something some of us forget from time-to-time.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
Yeah but for me in my advancing age, the least amount of fuss and work is the best! LOL

I don't even hardly disturb my soil before the next grows. Worms mix it up and disturb it enough. I figure the roots and underground stalks of my old plants in there are free organic matter to feed my next grow, along with keeping that fungi network intact. The underground part of a cannabis plant represents a significant part of its biomass - something some of us forget from time-to-time.
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i couldn't agree more. i hate busting up my rootballs! it's annoying and totally destroys the developed ecosystem. i make sure to leave all the roots in the recycled mix though, and have stopped adding additional OM upon recycling because i came to the conclusion that the roots account for what the microbes eat during a cycle. now i only add a couple handfuls of my castings just to reinoculate while its composting for the new cycle or with topdress.
 
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Northwood

Well-Known Member
Add a shit load of castings, not just a couple handfuls if you got 'em. LOL

Don't get me wrong. You do have to amend your soil after each grow. If you did everything right, your soil level will actually be bit lower upon harvest than when you started, even with all that extra root mass in there because micro organisms broke down all that rich organic matter. That's what you need to replace. If you amended your soil with very slow release minerals like rock phosphate and greensand, etc. that will last a very long long time and no need to worry about that. Especially if you add a lot of stuff to your worm bins. I do add those same mineral amendments to my worms, because they don't mind (helps their digestion LOL) and it's an easy way to amend all kinds of things with just castings. If your worms thrive with is, so will your plants.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
Northwood said:
Add a shit load of castings, not just a couple handfuls if you got 'em. LOL

Don't get me wrong. You do have to amend your soil after each grow. If you did everything right, your soil level will actually be bit lower upon harvest than when you started, even with all that extra root mass in there because micro organisms broke down all that rich organic matter. That's what you need to replace. If you amended your soil with very slow release minerals like rock phosphate and greensand, etc. that will last a very long long time and no need to worry about that. Especially if you add a lot of stuff to your worm bins. I do add those same mineral amendments to my worms, because they don't mind (helps their digestion LOL) and it's an easy way to amend all kinds of things with just castings. If your worms thrive with is, so will your plants.
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replace it? where did it go? matter is neither created, nor destroyed. plants build themselves of inorganic carbon and the minerals they take from the soil. the microbes that consume organic matter become organic matter upon death, things that eat them die eventually, which get consumed by more bacteria... the cycle of carbon continues :) i figure if anything the roots, carbon based amendments and mulches should add enough new OM for each cycle. i am a big fan of castings, don't get me wrong... but too much of something is not always a good thing. I just didn't like how much heavier the mix was with excessive compost.
 
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Northwood

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
replace it? where did it go? matter is neither created, nor destroyed. plants build themselves of inorganic carbon and the minerals they take from the soil. the microbes that consume organic matter become organic matter upon death, things that eat them die eventually, which get consumed by more bacteria... the cycle of carbon continues :) i figure if anything the roots, carbon based amendments and mulches should add enough new OM for each cycle. i am a big fan of castings, don't get me wrong... but too much of something is not always a good thing. I just didn't like how much heavier the mix was with excessive compost.
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In nature, soil is replenished continuously from the fallen leaves and stuff each year. You took away bud, stem, and leaves, so unless you put everything you harvested back into the soil, you will have less next time around. If you have optimal soil life, you only need to add what you took away in that process. Many folks use up their fan leaves and stems as mulch for their next grow. Personally, I just add a mulch of finer material (like shredded bark - not ceder) on the soil instead over the worm castings after the cover crop has died down a bit.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
yes but those things you mention are made pretty much entirely of inorganic carbon (CO2) and water, not carbon consumed from the soil. minerals, yes, are consumed from the soil, which is why we recycle with new amendments, to add nutrition. but the carbon, it remains... including the roots. so really, with the roots, mulches, and carbon based inputs... you're increasing your soil mass nearly every grow!
 
bearded.beaver

bearded.beaver

Well-Known Member
I agree with you guys @ShLUbY @Greenthumbs256 and @Northwood .
That is some great advise. I personally would add some kelp meal in with that top dress. I just started flowering a couple days ago. I am going to add kelp meal worm castings some liquid seaweed just because I have it.
 
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