FoxFarm Ocean Forest, Crazy PH Strait Out of the Bag?

Decided to give FFOF a try for my latest grow, especially because of it being PH adjusted. Been having PH fluctuations with pro mix with almost every grow so I thought I would give it a try.

Bought a few bags of FFOF and a small bag of perlite to mix in. Mixed it up and transplanted all my plants, watered them with 6.5 ph adjusted water and tested the runoff... The runoff read 5.1. I couldn't believe it. I assumed this was because the perlite cause it was the only reasonable explanation I could come up with. So I hit all the pots with hydrated lime, twice the amount suggested, tested the runoff and... 5.2!

How is this even possible? I know testing runoff isn't completely accurate, but its close enough to be able to tell that 5.2 is way too acidic. And how did the lime have no effect?

So I figured it was the perlite and if hydrated lime wouldn't fix it, then nothing would. So I went back to the hydro store, and bought 2 more bags of FFOF. I figured I would just use it right out of the bag and not add the perlite.

Went home and repeated the entire process, without the perlite... Tested the runoff.. 5.1. Again. Its incredibly frustrating.

At this point I am basically over this product. It seems many other people have PH problems with FFOF. Is there an explanation why its so acidic, and that hydrated lime wouldn't even raise the ph, using double strength?

Soil is a ph buffer, meaning that the ph will correct itself over time. Don't bother testing ph running soil. There's no need.
I've been running FFOF for as long as I can remember

As long as you adjust your water to the appropriate PH levels, the soil will follow suit, don't worry about the run off. If you're concerned, water with water that has a higher PH like 7.5 to try to even it out a bit.

I love when people come out and blame products that thousands of people use successfully on a daily basis.

thenotsoesoteric said:

I love when people come out and blame products that thousands of people use successfully on a daily basis.

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I'm not blaming anyone necessarily, I know its considered one of the best and that's why I decided to give it a try. I just want to know how this is even possible, is there an answer for the runoff being so acidic? I mean the hydrated lime water maxed out my ph meter, it was 13-14 alkalinity, and the runoff was still 5.2.. That is crazy. And if you google "FFOF ph problem" there are many threads with people having very similar issues, none with a definitive answer as to why this is happening.

I have been growing for years with many different mediums, and testing runoff has always been accurate enough for me to dial in the PH properly. So this just raised a red flag for me when I saw how low the PH was, and lime wouldn't even help.

Plus I just love my girls, I hate to see them sad, especially when its flower time in a week or so.

TheNameless said:

I'm not blaming anyone necessarily, I know its considered one of the best and that's why I decided to give it a try. I just want to know how this is even possible, is there an answer for the runoff being so acidic? I mean the hydrated lime water maxed out my ph meter, it was 13-14 alkalinity, and the runoff was still 5.2.. That is crazy. And if you google "FFOF ph problem" there are many threads with people having very similar issues, none with a definitive answer as to why this is happening.

I have been growing for years with many different mediums, and testing runoff has always been accurate enough for me to dial in the PH properly. So this just raised a red flag for me when I saw how low the PH was, and lime wouldn't even help.

Plus I just love my girls, I hate to see them sad, especially when its flower time in a week or so.

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Measuring runoff is NOT a true ph soil reading, your reading water that has ran thru real fast collecting all kinds of stuff. You need a soil ph tester to know what your ph is.http://www.bing.com/shopping/digital-plus-soil-ph-meter-rapitest/p/2FDC8CE0A0C8163A5012?q=rapitest+soil+ph+meter&lpf=0&lpq=rapitest+soil+ph+meter&FORM=CMSPEG

chuck estevez said:

Measuring runoff is NOT a true ph soil reading, your reading water that has ran thru real fast collecting all kinds of stuff. You need a soil ph tester to know what your ph is.http://www.bing.com/shopping/digital-plus-soil-ph-meter-rapitest/p/2FDC8CE0A0C8163A5012?q=rapitest+soil+ph+meter&lpf=0&lpq=rapitest+soil+ph+meter&FORM=CMSPEG

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It seems like I've been able to ballpark the ph pretty good from many previous grows by testing runoff, maybe it was luck. But every soil/soilless mix I've ever used, the runoff has always tested between 6.0 and 7.0. What is different in FFOF, from every other peat based mix I've used? It's just weird to me.

It could just be a batch that has not "cooked" long enough, or let to sit so soil can break down.

I don't understand why you don't get a $10 soil ph meter, then test with that. If your soil is at 5.-- then flush the soil with higher ph water. But if you've already been pouring a lot of water through it your plant will get water logged, so you might have to let it dry out first.

Been using FF soils soils 10-12 yrs and best there is imo,and yes investing into a moisture meter and ph meter worth a lot of headaches.

Perlite is pH neutral.

Adding dolomite lime to ANY peat based mix will take care of pH. 1cup/cf of mix.

Hydrated lime is about the worst thing you can use, it's chemically treated and bad juju for container mixes. Dolomite lime is just ground up limestone rock.

I finally removed the battery from my pH meter since its been 2 years+ since I've used it.

YMMV

Wet

I run in FFOF and have zero issues after 10 bags. for my amended soil, I add 1.5cu' bag of FFOf, 1 64oz bag of perlite, 1 cup powdered dolomite lime, and 1 bottle of great white mycorhizae(sp) to my soil tub.

Ive had the same runn off ph 5.1 or 5.2. but i run multiple strains and some never show any signs of PH promblems and others end up looking bad. I definitely think FFOF has something to do with it though. My next go round im goin to try the dolimite lime with some LW.
PS: i only have these PH issues in flowering, usually starts the fifth week ive noticed.

It's always been low it will correct in time no biggie,

when yure purchasing the bags make sure that they haven't been set outside exposed to the elements,it will def make the bags hot,get the ones inside or not getting hosed or rained on,jus thot I'd pass that along.

OSAMAbinSMOKIN said:

Ive had the same runn off ph 5.1 or 5.2. but i run multiple strains and some never show any signs of PH promblems and others end up looking bad. I definitely think FFOF has something to do with it though. My next go round im goin to try the dolimite lime with some LW.
PS: i only have these PH issues in flowering, usually starts the fifth week ive noticed.

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That's about when the oyster shell flour that's added seems to run out, usually a couple of weeks sooner.

Add the dolo lime and no worries. Or, keep trying other fixes that really don't work.

Wet

I just ran (my best plant btw) one if FFOF, no additives in a 3 gal airpot.

I don't think hydrated lime is what you want btw, dolomite is what is used to correct acidic soils.

1. People are correct in that soil naturally buffers PH. But the ones that say "oh its soil, don't worry at all about PH" are wrong.
2. I too had massively low runoff despite geniours PH corrected "flush feeding" and fresh PH water every 3rd feeding.
3. If you feed in this way, ie. ph correct your nute solution and water, and feed to 10-20% runoff, you don't have to really be concerned with the soil PH at all.
4. IF you do for some reason HAVE to know the PH of the actual soil. Soil PH test kits are one way to test the actual PH but in practicality proper runoff testing is a better indicator of the entire bucket. By proper I mean you pass a known volume of known PH and PPM water thru the soil matrix and based on the runoff you can get a good indicator of where the matrix is at as a whole.

PS> FFOF runs out of nutes about 3 weeks into veg. Also if you use it the whole time, near the mid-end of flower mine started having drainage issues, your perlite should help with that.

PPS> Best advice/use I've got for FFOF was from the hydro shop guy and he said use no additives and only use it for vegging babies(rooted clones/seedlings) for about 3 weeks. And based everything I've seen with the stuff, that is exactly right.

Am useing ffof soil too n my ph in soil is low I add lime an I have limestone in my pot help bro