Freaking the f out please help with thunderfuck seedlings(with pics)

ClamDigger said:

for rockwool i have been told "i lightly wrung out sponge"
there's also a definite color change from too wet to just right.
i still recommend transplanting into a different medium, even if that is just #4 Sunshine Mix.

Tip Top Toker
you are correct about the ratios being the same but if i had that nutrient solution tested (1/8 teaspoon/gallon) what would the NPK ratio be?
that is the question

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All of this chemistry is fucking up a psychology major's mind

mr.swishas&herb said:

Also, i don't know what you are using for "spraying" but I usually run my cubes w/ the seed in it underneath tap water (naturally close to a good pH) and then pinch the corners to shed the cube of excessive amounts of water (so the cube is heavily saturated in water, but not dripping)...does that answer your question?

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Yep Thanks.
Still dunno wtf is wrong with my seedlings tho.

Maybe i should have kept the dome cover till they are transplanted.Idk i was told I should remove it soon as the seeds sprout

ClamDigger said:

for rockwool i have been told "i lightly wrung out sponge"
there's also a definite color change from too wet to just right.
i still recommend transplanting into a different medium, even if that is just #4 Sunshine Mix.

Tip Top Toker
you are correct about the ratios being the same but if i had that nutrient solution tested (1/8 teaspoon/gallon) what would the NPK ratio be?
that is the question

Click to expand...

By all logical reasoning, and with the mathmatics of rtios, it should still test as the same ratio. If you take 10ml of liquid N 10ml of liquid P and 10ml of liquid K, you have a 1:1 ratio of P and K, so if you add that 30ml to 70ml of water, you have 70ml of water, and only 30ml of N P and K, that is to say there is a ratio of NPK to water of 3:7 (or so i hope haha) the the ratio of N to P to K is still 1:1:1, the focus being the ratio is between the included parts, not any other variables, in this case the water.

The solution would be weaker, but the ratio of N to P to K would remain the same, if it were N to P to K to H2O then it would be a different story.

Please someone jump in and tell me if i'm chatting shit though, i havn't used anything more than how to add a percentage ontop of a price in the last 5 years, what a fucking waste of time that was eh, blooduy trigenometry and ratios being essential in life my ARSE!

Alex Wayne said:

Maybe i should have kept the dome cover till they are transplanted.Idk i was told I should remove it soon as the seeds sprout

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Idk man...luckily the only seeds ive had that didn't sprout were freebies so it was tough to get mad about them, but it sounds like you have some quality seeds with some shitty luck...

Idk who or why they told you to take the dome off but ive never taken the seedling out from underneath the plastic until I was ready to drop the cube into soil (which would obviously retain moisture much more efficiently than a rockwool cube)

Can anyone pleaseeeeee pinpoint what these drooping crusty whitening leaves are a sign of?

mr.swishas&herb said:

Idk man...luckily the only seeds ive had that didn't sprout were freebies so it was tough to get mad about them, but it sounds like you have some quality seeds with some shitty luck...

Idk who or why they told you to take the dome off but ive never taken the seedling out from underneath the plastic until I was ready to drop the cube into soil (which would obviously retain moisture much more efficiently than a rockwool cube)

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So you keep the dome on till they are 2 weeks old or so right?

rockwool /soil mix is an interesting one, I must admit=D

Personally i agree with clam diggers analysis. I have only seen that type of thing on my plant when theyve not had water, or when they'#ve had a rapid change in environment (humidity) and in that case i noticed that the leaves would curl up like a corkscrew

This probably wont help you out for this grow, but you should get a heated mat to propagate seed. This is for any plant actually. Especially tropical or near tropical strains. Makes all the difference in the world. I use a Mondi propagation tray with holes on the bottom and a dome. You can water rockwool to your hearts content and it will drain away the excess. Open the dome vents slowly as you go along a bit more each day. The last batch I did had over 90% sprouting.

If any of you ever grow things beside your medicine as I do with peppers, you must use the mat. Ghost Peppers (Naga Jolokia-Bhut Jolokia) will only sprout when the ground gets above 80-90° F I have had multiple failures not following this... once the mat heat system is established... you will have good growth and the makings of a great hot sauce. My seed for this year should be here today or tomorrow...

G.

ghykhap said:

This probably wont help you out for this grow, but you should get a heated mat to propagate seed. This is for any plant actually. Especially tropical or near tropical strains. Makes all the difference in the world. I use a Mondi propagation tray with holes on the bottom and a dome. You can water rockwool to your hearts content and it will drain away the excess. Open the dome vents slowly as you go along a bit more each day. The last batch I did had over 90% sprouting.

If any of you ever grow things beside your medicine as I do with peppers, you must use the mat. Ghost Peppers (Naga Jolokia-Bhut Jolokia) will only sprout when the ground gets above 80-90° F I have had multiple failures not following this... once the mat heat system is established... you will have good growth and the makings of a great hot sauce. My seed for this year should be here today or tomorrow...

G.

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Yea the mat was on until they sprouted

page 4 and no one asks.
Whats your temp and light placement and humidity in the environment

Looks like Nitrogen Toxicity to me - OR - Low Temps.

yeah rockwool is tough to use by itself mix together with drainage stones or pottingsoil

Did you just wet the rockwool and stick the seeds in them? They need to be conditioned. Rockwool has a bunch of nasty shit in it when it is manufactured. I never use them because of this. I use Rapid Rooters and never have trouble.

And I wish I could offer usable advise, but I'm an old school fool: I just mix my soil, put it in 20-oz red plastic party cups, wet it good, use a pencil's eraser end to push a hole in the dirt about 1/4" deep, drop a dry seed in the hole and cover it lightly, then mist it with a spray bottle periodically to keep it moist under the top half of a 2-liter plastic soda pop bottle until it has 2 sets of leaves.
Then I remove the dome and let it grow for another day or two so the roots can get a foothold before moving them out from under about 40 watts of standard CFL lighting.
I've had 100% germination success, and the longest a seed has ever taken to pop out of the soil is 3 days, and that one was planted in a hole that was about 1/2" deep instead of 1/4" deep, so it just took an extra day to make it's way to freedom.
I spent a solid hour today scouring google results to try and find a similar sprout problem to point the way to a solution, but came up with nada.
Could you do us a favor and post some pics of how you have your complete sprouting setup (tray, cubes, lights & fans all exactly where you normally have them).
I keep thinking it is a few things going wrong, and not just one thing, and they're all contributing to the bleaching/chlorosis and withering. Perhaps not one thing by itself would cause such dramatic damage, but collectively it's too much for your babies to handle.
You did a great job outlining your setup previously, but some times a photo will give us a better idea of what it might be, or at least help us eliminate what it can't be that is going wrong.

DoobieBrother said:

And I wish I could offer usable advise, but I'm an old school fool: I just mix my soil, put it in 20-oz red plastic party cups, wet it good, use a pencil's eraser end to push a hole in the dirt about 1/4" deep, drop a dry seed in the hole and cover it lightly, then mist it with a spray bottle periodically to keep it moist under the top half of a 2-liter plastic soda pop bottle until it has 2 sets of leaves.
Then I remove the dome and let it grow for another day or two so the roots can get a foothold before moving them out from under about 40 watts of standard CFL lighting.
I've had 100% germination success, and the longest a seed has ever taken to pop out of the soil is 3 days, and that one was planted in a hole that was about 1/2" deep instead of 1/4" deep, so it just took an extra day to make it's way to freedom.
I spent a solid hour today scouring google results to try and find a similar sprout problem to point the way to a solution, but came up with nada.
Could you do us a favor and post some pics of how you have your complete sprouting setup (tray, cubes, lights & fans all exactly where you normally have them).
I keep thinking it is a few things going wrong, and not just one thing, and they're all contributing to the bleaching/chlorosis and withering. Perhaps not one thing by itself would cause such dramatic damage, but collectively it's too much for your babies to handle.
You did a great job outlining your setup previously, but some times a photo will give us a better idea of what it might be, or at least help us eliminate what it can't be that is going wrong.

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good post, i too like soil for germinating. it is a buffer for young plants, making it harder to over/underwater, over fertilize and so on.
i only use Rockwool for cloning and when i do its pre soaked in a very weak micro nutrient solution, LIGHTLY squeeze the cube to drip off extra moisture. then insert clone and left under the dome and opened daily for air exchange.

Alex Wayne
what is the PH of the water your using on your babies?
have they been transplanted yet?
another pic would be cool

Hey Doobie Bro, you've been helping me out a lot, I really appreciate this! There only a few other people in this forum who take others problems as their own and help em out reasonably rather than gibbering shit and you are one of them...
I will take pics and post it up soon as I get my iphone working again(they keep dying on me this is the 4th).But for now I can list a couple o problems that can and can't be going wrong.Well ,first of all, neither humidity nor ventilation would be causing this problem (posted up all the readings in the previous thread.all optimal).
When it comes to heat stress,I doubt if I have caused any,the 250 watt cfl( http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/08/21/my-compact-fluoresce.html ) hung 10-12 inches from the plants and temp readings below the lamp never went above 80 and usually stood 78 ish.But again I have never used this kinda light on my seedlings before,this used to veg my train-wreck mother which took it very well
.So ,the bulb might be too strong for seedlings as u pointed out earlier.Though, I heard from a lot of people that any type of light( from 100 watt cfls to 1000 watt metal halides )can be used for seedlings as long as the temp /light distance/vent etc is properly maintained.
-I think Nute burn should totally be ruled out as I have never properly used them(1/20 strength maybe even weaker ,only once,the mix was made up mainly of enzymes)
-Nute def.Humm i think it's a little too early for that but still shouldn't be overlooked
-My tap water reads at 6.5(Im from toronto) but I ph down it to 5.5 before watering.
Could this be a ph issue? I mean it might be rising back up to 6.5 after its absorbed by rw cubes then resulting in ph lock out? Do ph burn result in bleaching leaves? I have only used RO water until my unit got messed up 2 weeks ago.Never really had any experience with tap water ,do you think this might be a factor?
Windburn too should be eliminated , as I m not blowing air across the plants.I have a 6 inch vortex fan attached to a carbon filter sucking air out of my tent 24/7 with 2 passive intakes(good - pressure )

Sure I am gonna post new photos that I took early on before my iphone has gone nanners

i resent germinating Marijuana seeds in rockwool because by the time they are in cotyledon stage their taproot is already being strangled (rootbound) by the tiny cube.
i still recommend transplanting, 4" rockwool blocks are good.