Free will vs Predestination

beardo said:

Wheres my debate on how gays are born that way?

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whats your stand on it ? out of curiousity of course ... I havn't a friggin clue myself ... some seem to be born that way to me .. and I've seen others that traumatic events from a straight relationship seemed to have turned em .... maby already leaning that way or in the closet ... I just dont know ....

Im a duder, not a chicka not that it really matters anyways..


So GoGrow it looks like were kinda in the same boat gogrow opinion wise.

Beardo I don't really know much about if folks are born gay or choose truthfully, never been that intersted. I remember a couple years ago there was some stuff on the news about a gay gene.. But I have no idea

The born gay or not gay actually would fall under this topic/thread at least from a biblical perspective .
Sorry for the crappy typing, I really should go back and read what I typed before posting it.. LOL

Jeffdt1966 said:

whats your stand on it ? out of curiousity of course ... I havn't a friggin clue myself ... some seem to be born that way to me .. and I've seen others that traumatic events from a straight relationship seemed to have turned em .... maby already leaning that way or in the closet ... I just dont know ....

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personally, I view it as the perfect example of the "nature vs nurture" debate....

here are a couple more verses which I have always wondered about..

Romans 8:28-30
8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


"For this is a word of promise: 'At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.' 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.' 13Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"


^^^^^^^^^^That verse is what got me the first time ... I mean before they had done NO wrong god hated one and loved other??? WTF!!!!!

Well, my answer isn't in regard to the Bible. There are definetly events in our life that are Fated. Through free will, we can choose our own path and when the fated event occurs, it's up to us how we respond. For example: You are predestined to meet your soulmate. When you do, you have that feeling,'It was meant to be.' But, you need to, through your own free will, accept or reject that person. What happens before and after the Fated event is determined by free will.

where is everyone at? whatcha guys think about that verse? anyone have a biblical take n why would god would hate esau before he was ever born and had done no right or wrong..

And thus they cameth into the McDonald's and saw that the multitude could indeed be served