Fundamental Pacificism

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Is there such a thing? Can a person be ​too pacifist?

I was listening to the Rogan podcast earlier today and the guest brought up an interesting point.. Consider Anders Breivik who went on that shooting rampage in Norway killing 77 people, most of them teenagers.

During the trial, he described how he did it, in detail. He admitted to everything.

What, in your opinion, is the appropriate action to take when dealing with someone like this? Does he deserve the same treatment as anyone else, even when considering the magnitude of his crimes? Should the crime itself change anything about the trial process or consequences? (Norway doesn't have a death penalty)
 
Shannon Alexander

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
When tax money can be better spent on schools or health I see no valid point to keep those sort of people around...


On the other hand, I do see that in countries that do possess the death penalty innocent people sometimes do die, and that is inexcusable...
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I would imagine prison for life to be adequate. It's the maximum civilized penalty imo. cn
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Man, the logical part of me agrees with you, but, regrettably, the emotional part of me wants to see people like this just be executed. 77 lives... that's... just.. I don't know.. Every rational fiber inside me is telling me it's completely inhumane to do anything but put the guy in a cell away from people for life, but part of me feels like someone like this deserves to be tortured.. That can't be rational. I couldn't do it myself, so does that make it inhumane? That's a sort of standard I've set to better determine how to handle these kinds of situations, would I do it myself? I couldn't... What does that mean?

Life in prison just seems too lenient.. talk about a moral conundrum..
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Padawanbater2 said:
Man, the logical part of me agrees with you, but, regrettably, the emotional part of me wants to see people like this just be executed. 77 lives... that's... just.. I don't know.. Every rational fiber inside me is telling me it's completely inhumane to do anything but put the guy in a cell away from people for life, but part of me feels like someone like this deserves to be tortured.. That can't be rational. I couldn't do it myself, so does that make it inhumane? That's a sort of standard I've set to better determine how to handle these kinds of situations, would I do it myself? I couldn't... What does that mean?

Life in prison just seems too lenient.. talk about a moral conundrum..
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I get it. But think on it this way: an execution is over so quickly, unless you're gonna go all Braveheart on the convict. I can't countenance that.

Many years in prison is an absolute bitch of a punishment. The despair of parole is like the tabasco in that karmic burrito.

Shannon, in the States a capital case costs more than a life prison term. Here the economic argument breaks against the proponents of capital punishment. cn
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
So if a dude runs inside your house and kills your kid, is it moral or immoral to give him/her your own personal "death penalty".. Or should you just hold that person down until the police show up?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I get it. But think on it this way: an execution is over so quickly, unless you're gonna go all Braveheart on the convict. I can't countenance that.

Many years in prison is an absolute bitch of a punishment. The despair of parole is like the tabasco in that karmic burrito.

Shannon, in the States a capital case costs more than a life prison term. Here the economic argument breaks against the proponents of capital punishment. cn
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Man, I hate to portray devils advocate, because 99% of the time, I'm right there with you. But for some reason, this case has me in that 1% group..

I feel like the appropriate course of action to take is to torture this guy, inflict as much physical pain as humanly possible on him, give him blood transfusions, organ transplants, skin grafts, anything to keep him alive as long as possible. I feel like this makes me a terrible human being because I know, deep down, it's completely contrary to the concept of justice.

What the fucking fuck?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Padawanbater2 said:
Man, I hate to portray devils advocate, because 99% of the time, I'm right there with you. But for some reason, this case has me in that 1% group..

I feel like the appropriate course of action to take is to torture this guy, inflict as much physical pain as humanly possible on him, give him blood transfusions, organ transplants, skin grafts, anything to keep him alive as long as possible. I feel like this makes me a terrible human being because I know, deep down, it's completely contrary to the concept of justice.

What the fucking fuck?
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You are experiencing anger. The anger does fade. After it does, I'll wager you'll want to have taken the higher road.
Believe me, I too have felt the oddly pure righteousness of killing rage. It's hard to remember in the heat that your hormones are lying to you. cn
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Hepheastus420 said:
So if a dude runs inside your house and kills your kid, is it moral or immoral to give him/her your own personal "death penalty".. Or should you just hold that person down until the police show up?
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I wouldn't hold any personal justification against any human being after a murder they witnessed, especially if it was a family member, and I'm pretty sure the law would agree with me, to a certain extent. (kidnap the guy and keep him in your basement torturing him till he dies, the law would probably see otherwise..)
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
You are experiencing anger. The anger does fade. After it does, I'll wager you'll want to have taken the higher road.
Believe me, I too have felt the oddly pure righteousness of killing rage. It's hard to remember in the heat that your hormones are lying to you. cn
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You're right, I appreciate the reminder... Some human beings are just monsters... damn.

77 fuckin' people, though.. Even if he felt sorry for it it wouldn't matter to me if I was a father or brother to any of those people who were killed.

What a weird situation, I feel like there's nothing that can be done to fulfill the requirements for justice. A first.
 
Shannon Alexander

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
If it's cheaper to keep them in prison than to execute them I believe that is a big failure on the part of the legal system, but will now back life imprisonment...
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Shannon Alexander said:
If it's cheaper to keep them in prison than to execute them I believe that is a big failure on the part of the legal system, but will now back life imprisonment...
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I can only speak for the USA in that regard. We have an amazingly awkward, esoteric and expensive appeals setup for capital cases. Even so, people arrive at the killing chamber who are then found to have been innocent, after all. I can forgive this from an individual but not from a state. The state isn't permitted passion. cn
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I can only speak for the USA in that regard. We have an amazingly awkward, esoteric and expensive appeals setup for capital cases. Even so, people arrive at the killing chamber who are then found to have been innocent, after all. I can forgive this from an individual but not from a state. The state isn't permitted passion. cn
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+rep you smart motherfucker (pseudo-rep)
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Is there such a thing? Can a person be ​too pacifist?

I was listening to the Rogan podcast earlier today and the guest brought up an interesting point.. Consider Anders Breivik who went on that shooting rampage in Norway killing 77 people, most of them teenagers.

During the trial, he described how he did it, in detail. He admitted to everything.

What, in your opinion, is the appropriate action to take when dealing with someone like this? Does he deserve the same treatment as anyone else, even when considering the magnitude of his crimes? Should the crime itself change anything about the trial process or consequences? (Norway doesn't have a death penalty)
Click to expand...
We should have a death penalty, precisely becasue of this situation. But, I have to to say, the Law is for the Law and people's situations are just so much fertilzer to be plowed under or not, for the benefit of Law.

Oaklahoma City. One guy cooperated, a bit, and is in Super Max forever. The other was summarily executed after he waived appeal.
Who has the better situation? The perp or the goat?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Well if I'm gonna get executed "summarily" would be the way. No ten, twenty years as a juristic football. Like when airlines had Gold Star Club lounges for Preferred Members, with cuties serving alcohol. I'd like the premium service on the way to the gasp chamber. cn
 
Shannon Alexander

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
If I was gonna go out like that I'd rather choose my own method of death than my last meal...

I'd choose firing squad without a blind fold...
 
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