Gavita Sold To Hawthorne Group

JorgeGonzales said:

Fukushima was a 40 year old power plant built in an active earthquake and tsunami zone, and it took the tsunami to actually do it in. These are both avoidable natural disasters, not to mention 40 years of technological and engineering progess to help with safety.

It's so not a big deal...and if we had converted to nuclear instead of whining about it in the last few decades, we wouldn't be so far along the crisis curve now. It's pretty sad.

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The long term effects of nuclear radiation are still being discovered and charted. The half life of many of the materials ejected into the environment in large amounts is centuries. Some of the waste still sitting in fucking swimming pools onsite is so dangerous that if the pool drained, the resulting unstoppable radioactive fire would poison the entire planet.

I just don't care how clean it is the rest of the time. Even a tiny chance of things going so horribly wrong is too large.

Wha- 'crisis curve'?

Is that code for we're running out of energy?

Dood. Energy is all around us; people buy it to run air conditioners to cool their houses all summer. ... because of all the ENERGY falling on them in the form of sunlight!

The idea of an energy crisis is hysterical! Never before have there been more ways to generate useful energy for home, shop, business or industry, or a more willing market to help subsidize it now.

Shameless plug for a worthy local example; New Belgium Brewing Co. 'Wind powered, employee owned'. It's their actual motto.

Lots of passive, as mush as possible. De grid the system. What a waste to begin with.

Abiqua said:

Lots of passive, as mush as possible. De grid the system. What a waste to begin with.

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The grid is there and it does its job, well in most cases. Decentralized power cogeneration at the site of use is more efficient in at least four ways;
1. No distance between generation and use means no transmission losses, save for any excess sent up the line.
2. Cogeneration means getting to use the otherwise wasted heat, adding to efficiency.
3. Fuel cells running on natural gas would be much more efficient than standard power plants, up to 65% vs 32% for most utility generated energy. This does NOT include the cogenerated heat mentioned above.
4. Natural gas makes less co2 per BTu than any other hydrocarbon, better for the environment.

Bonus; not only is natural gas super abundant and cheap and locally produced, it can be comingled with biogas, also known as natural gas, aka methane.

Back to that grid for a moment. Decentralized power generation means that its huge capacity will serve us for a much longer time than just building more power plants.

Fuel cells are redundant in some cases.

Jean Pain tech would still work well and does not use a Fuel Cell, but very similar alternatives no doubt. Storage, this agree with. The most complicated part of off grid.

Fukushima was a avoidable situation and caused by stupidity. Japan has written history of large tsunami's going back at least a thousand years. These idiots put the emergency generator system down on the flood plain where a tsunami could take it out instead of on high ground ,probably to save a few bucks. The reactors were intact and only melted down because of no power to the cooling pumps. If I had the money I would give some to Tesla for a car,roof solar and a power wall,fuck the oil industry and the utility companies.

Abiqua said:

Fuel cells are redundant in some cases.

Jean Pain tech would still work well and does not use a Fuel Cell, but very similar alternatives no doubt. Storage, this agree with. The most complicated part of off grid.

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Whose tech?

captainmorgan said:

Fukushima was a avoidable situation and caused by stupidity. Japan has written history of large tsunami's going back at least a thousand years. These idiots put the emergency generator system down on the flood plain where a tsunami could take it out instead of on high ground ,probably to save a few bucks. The reactors were intact and only melted down because of no power to the cooling pumps. If I had the money I would give some to Tesla for a car,roof solar and a power wall,fuck the oil industry and the utility companies.

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Avoidable in hindsight. We aren't perfect and we can't rhink of everything. How many meltdowns per century is acceptable?

I'm firmly in the camp of 'none', considering the half life of many contaminants is measured in centuries or more.

Power grids are nowhere near as nasty for the environment and therefore us as nuclear power.

Natural gas is another scam the oil industry is trying to pull on the American people. The industry says it's clean,bullshit,just cleaner than coal,it still puts a lot of carbon dioxide in the air. They say we can be energy independent,bullshit,they are building plants on every coast to liquefy it and sell it overseas using tanker ships,when that happens prices will go up for us. Fraking is polluting all our ground water and streams and a lot of it is what they call flared or lost to leaks in the pipeline system,some estimate 15% of the gas they bring up goes directly into the atmosphere. I can list more of their bullshit.

ttystikk said:

Avoidable in hindsight. We aren't perfect and we can't rhink of everything. How many meltdowns per century is acceptable?

I'm firmly in the camp of 'none', considering the half life of many contaminants is measured in centuries or more.

Power grids are nowhere near as nasty for the environment and therefore us as nuclear power.

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I'm not a nuclear power fan,I just used that as a example of another for profit company put in charge of a dangerous technology. When it comes to money they will always cut corners to increase profits no matter the risk.

Hindsight,you did read the part about 1000 years or more of proof that tsunamis happen all the time in their country,not sure how they could be surprised.

Jean Pain

obscure dude from France died in the 80;s.

just about everything today was a working model in the 70's.
Hell, hybrid battery powered cars have been around since late 1800's, mister Porsche I believe or doctor as he became later known. .

Abiqua said:

Fuel cells are redundant in some cases.

Jean Pain tech would still work well and does not use a Fuel Cell, but very similar alternatives no doubt. Storage, this agree with. The most complicated part of off grid.

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Storage is expensive, very inefficient and itself needs replacement at substantial cost. Why not use the grid instead? Generate enough energy to offset your own use and sell/accrue credit for future use when you make extra. The grid then delivers that power to its closest user in order to minimize transmission costs.

It makes sense as a stepping stone strategy, as well; paying your own power use directly reduces your bill, highest tier first.

Not sure why there an obsession about being off grid completely when the benefits are so many and the drawbacks so few.

captainmorgan said:

I'm not a nuclear power fan,I just used that as a example of another for profit company put in charge of a dangerous technology. When it comes to money they will always cut corners to increase profits no matter the risk.

Hindsight,you did read the part about 1000 years or more of proof that tsunamis happen all the time in their country,not sure how they could be surprised.

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Scientists have used Japanese historical records to confirm the dates of tsunamis that originated from off the coast of Washington state. They were known in Japan as 'orphan' tsunamis, because there was no tremor felt before its arrival.

Shit can and does go wrong, in spite of the best available planning. Nuclear power is a fine technology in space, where there's already lots of radiation everywhere- but down here in the soup, we need to keep our fishbowl clean if we're to survive for the long term.

The oil industries own scientists warned them about climate change from carbon dioxide at least 40 years ago,what did they do,covered it up and funded climate deniers. It seems once a certain amount of money is involved, companies become amoral. There is example after example of this and that's why they need over sight and should not be allowed to get too big,just like the banks that are too big to fail.

ttystikk said:

Storage is expensive, very inefficient and itself needs replacement at substantial cost. Why not use the grid instead? Generate enough energy to offset your own use and sell/accrue credit for future use when you make extra. The grid then delivers that power to its closest user in order to minimize transmission costs.

It makes sense as a stepping stone strategy, as well; paying your own power use directly reduces your bill, highest tier first.

Not sure why there an obsession about being off grid completely when the benefits are so many and the drawbacks so few.

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because the grid also causes geo political arguments that aren't addressed.
you make the grid sound like the end of a means, and I see quite the opposite.
and I am not actively advocating vacating the grid either...I am advocating less usage, mainly thru Passive means, in Everything. We need more Tesla thinking and less Steve Jobs types.

I went across the border to germany a few times this year (cheap alcohol and gas) and it's amazing how many homes have solar panels and how many per roof. Farms, houses, sheds even, often roofs entirely filled. They plan to shut down all nuclair plants before 2022, just 9 out of 17 or so to go.

I've also seen these in NL up close recently, they are in total, including blades, nearly 650 feet tall... That's taller than any building here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windpark_Noordoostpolder
86 that together provide almost as much power as our last nuclear plant.

City of the Sun, a CO2 neutral district north of Amsterdam, solar panels and a few wind turbines in the district produce all the energy needed.

http://www.urbangreenbluegrids.com/projects/stad-van-de-zon-heerhugowaard-the-netherlands/

And more on topic-ish: every new greenhouse build in 2020 and after in NL has to be climate neutral. Some want to go further and use greenhouses as energy sources, combined with smart thermal networks and deep geothermics.

Abiqua said:

Jean Pain

obscure dude from France died in the 80;s.

just about everything today was a working model in the 70's.
Hell, hybrid battery powered cars have been around since late 1800's, mister Porsche I believe or doctor as he became later known. .

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Fuel cells have powered space missions since Apollo.

Abiqua said:

because the grid also causes geo political arguments that aren't addressed.
you make the grid sound like the end of a means, and I see quite the opposite.
and I am not actively advocating vacating the grid either...I am advocating less usage, mainly thru Passive means, in Everything. We need more Tesla thinking and less Steve Jobs types.

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We're on the same wavelength.

Natural gas is a stepping-stone to biogas, which is the same stuff derived from biological sources. Infrastructure for one works for the other. I'm no fan of fracking but there has to be an end game somewhere, and bullshit has its uses. Like methane, aka natural gas production.

captainmorgan said:

Splicing genes between plants is one thing and probably pretty safe but splicing genes from something other than a plant to a plant is quite dangerous and quite possible unhealthy if you feed people with it. We are just guinea pigs for all this and why do you think they are so dead set against honest labeling of food,guess the sheeple don't have a right to know what they are eating.

Soylent Green for the masses.

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The people are the ones who voted against it where I live in Cali. We had mandatory labeling on the ballot. I was for mandatory labeling, even though I'm open minded to gmo. Hard to blame Monsanto for that one.