?Gender based Trait inheritance?

Question: are there traits that are passed on more by the male or more by the female parent?

If I am working on creating a short strain which parent is going to influence the height more?

And is there any difference between Sativa and Indica?

Yes and no. It is extremely likely that cannabis uses a gene pair analogous to the X and Y chromosomes in humans to determine gender which would mean that males will be true breeding for whatever traits they carry on their "X" chromosome to their daughters because they must inherit that chromosome. However whether or not those traits will be dominant depends on the genes involved and not which parent they came from.
The only way to know which parent is dominant in a cross is to grow some of it out. After gaining some experience with the genetics involved you'll learn to make very accurate predictions but without that experience you can't really say.
Sats and indies are extremely different.

Thank you for the response.

I assumed that there are likely genes from both parents that influence the final growth potential of the offspring. I was just wondering if there is any dominance based on the genders. I noticed many places talking about the males stretching more and getting taller than the females. So I wondered...

I then wondered if there might a difference between the inheritance of traits in sativas and indicas. I realize they are very different. That is exactly why I was wondering about them passing on traits in different ways.

BCJohn said:

Thank you for the response.

I assumed that there are likely genes from both parents that influence the final growth potential of the offspring. I was just wondering if there is any dominance based on the genders. I noticed many places talking about the males stretching more and getting taller than the females. So I wondered...

I then wondered if there might a difference between the inheritance of traits in sativas and indicas. I realize they are very different. That is exactly why I was wondering about them passing on traits in different ways.

Click to expand...

Males definitely have different growth patterns to females, in my experience males develop a lot faster in the initial seedling stages in terms of height but doesn't really have too much structure to it and the female are slower to start but have a lot more structure and bushy-ness to them, that's sativas anyways.

I'm pretty sure the male has the most influence, so a sativa male would most likely increase the height a lot more if it pollinated a shorter strain.

I'd rather use sativa to pollinate an indica than the other way around, I like indicas to be the seed bearers. If you know what you're doing you can fix and stabilise traits into the line you are working with.

Ace malawi for instance, they got rid of the long flowering period and airated flowers and used a few different male phenos into the breeding, masterful breeding really.
They turned a long flower equatorial sativa into a reasonable cycle time,dense and extreme resin production and a very heavy yield!.

I'll definitely use Malawi pollen to pollinate the Taskenti landrace indica outside, hopefully next year I'll have some nice seeds to work with and should be very very potent. I like the aroma of the Taskenti, it's not the usual pungent dank indica but more of a minty/piney hash aroma and the Malawi is the typical minty lemon African, maybe not lemon but another citrus kind of smell.

CK,

When you say that you think the male has more influence, do you mean with all traits or just some?

If it is all then does that mean you would use a male of the strain you like the most and pull your breeding in that direction only pulling in some from the other strain? (Wow is that ever a stoned sentence!)

With the Ace Malawi I assume that the breeding was done within the strain by doing pheno selections. They didn't do any outcrossing with different strains did they?

I'm not enough experienced to say that males always influence the progeny the most (another stoned sentence) But the main breeder from Ace seeds says that's usually the case.
When making true bred f1's(Landrace x Landrace) there will always be plants leaning towards each parent and some inbetween, it's up to you to decide which traits you like best in the line(s)

Ace Malawi is 75% killer Malawi with other Malawi males for more variation and taste. The killer Malawi was very potent but had a rude taste apparently so they bred with other males to refine the strain. Massive yield potential indoor and out.

I am starting my colloidal silver fem run tonight, I'm going to make a Taskenti x Malawi,Malawi and a Panama red pheno x Malawi.

Breeding is a whole new game compared to growing. Legitimate breeding takes a lot of hard work and dedication, I believe Ace and Cannabiogen are some of the most hard working breeders out there. The breeder of Ace talks to me and gives me advice about his strains at ICmag, I have yet to come across a seedbank that has as much integrity as Ace or Cannabiogen - I will always stay true to them and advise everyone to try their genetics out. Who stabilises their strains to f9?... not many seedbanks have the patience for that but CBG and Ace seem to.

The next person to breed with their genetics will become the next big thing imo. A whole lot of potential is hidden in Landraces

CK,
Are collecting pollen from your Malawi? Reversing a whole one or a branch? Those will be very interesting crosses for sure.

I wonder how the FEM will turn out if you have the Malawi as the "male".

I didnt realize they had strains to f9. Interesting. It wouldn't take too many years to do it but I'm not sure why you would go that far. Unless it just happened as a result of your breeding plan.

I'm currently spraying this Malawi clone to pollinate my outdoor plants and will end up with Malawi, Malawi x Tashkenti, Malawi x red Panama pheno and finally a Tashkent x Panama.

I should have good results from the pure fem Malawi becuase it's a Landrace and should be homogenous.

Yeah Cannabiogen are hard working breeders and I think they really wanted to lock in the traits with the Tashkenti and make it as homogenous(spelling?) as possible.

I've finally been able to order some regular Pakistani Chitral Kusk (CBG) and Red Poison Auto (Sweet seeds).

The basic plan is to first breed for a supply of inbreed seeds then try some crosses using these and my Sativas: Malawi, Golden Tiger, Mexican Sativa. I was trying to get some Orishas from Mandala but that hasn't happened yet. I would like to be able to reduce the flowering time and height of the sativas and add some colour, but maintain the up head high without adding much couch lock. I like an active functional high with a bit of psychedelic flair for fun.

Regardless of how much influence the male has on the breeding, it does seem everyone agrees that the selection of the male is very important and I need to learn a lot more about how to select them.

CK, did the guy at Ace mention any traits that the male may influence more then others?

Good man, I'm glad you're getting some regular PCK. The Chitrali would be ultimate to cross on to a IBL sativa, Deep Chunk is a strain that really interests me too - It's an IBL Afghani Landrace.
I plan to make a haze styled IBL indica cross; probably Tashkent,Pakistani Chitrali,Deep Chunk and X18(Pakistan landrace) crossed together, hmm what's a good name for this cross?.

Mandala is an underrated seedbank. Malawi has a purple pheno that appears in 5% of the plants, special for sure.

imo you select males the same way you do females, vigour & potency is what to look for and structure too.

I'm not too sure, join up and ICmag and go through the Ace and Cannabiogen threads. You're missing out on so much important info if you haven't read through those threads.

Ya I really hope I can get these seeds in. The PCK is definitely the kind so strain I want as a foundation. I love the traits it has; size, maturation, colour, flowering time, etc. Even on its own I would happily grow it. But to be able to cross it with some nice sativas I think it's perfect.

Im slowly working king my through some of the longer breeding threads. Learning what I can. I can't wait to start though.

Yeah check out Deep Chunk from Tim hill bro, more frosty than the PCK and is purrple too.
I reckon the Hindu Kush Mountains have the finest indicas in the world. A malawi x deep chunk would be insane, I have 1 PCK fem that I'll cross with the Tashkenti too.

The Ace threads give you the most info about their strains

CK,
There are really only a few traits that may be observable in a male. Potency which would probably be most accurately assessed through lab testing, structure and time to maturity. That is while deciding on a male from a group of males. Searching for leaf color and taste might mean missing the boat on the main issues. And then to determine whether said trait is dominant or recessive.

I suspect that there's a great deal of random luck in marijuana breeding. I like making crosses but have never gone beyond F-2. But I have a small collection of F-1 seeds yet to be grown out.

@BCJohn I bought some seeds called yarkoum from Tiki seedbank years ago and still have them sitting around. Supposedly Pakastani from the Chitral Valley. Planning to cross them with some sativa landrace strains I have. Ever heard of the yarkoum?

Anyway...
Cheers guys,
JD

JohnDee,
that sounds very interesting. I haven't heard of before. Can you tell us a little more?
i am waiting for my PCK order to arrive. Once I have a supply of seeds (regular and Fem) I will begin a small breeding program. Right I am just trying to work out in my head what that might look like. traits that I am most interested in and how I might want to try and balance them.

I am more of a sativa high person, but I need the growth and flowering of an Indica. I also really love the colours of the PCKs. If I can blend the Malawi and the PCK to give me the high of the Malawi in a plant that I can grow outdoors here that would be beautiful!

BCJohn,
This is the Tiki blurb on the Yarkoum. One problem is that they don't tell you what it was crossed with...so it's not a landrace.

"Yarkoum of Tiki Seedbank is an indica dominant type with a short flowering phase. It grows as a short and bushy plant with heavy colas usually forming on the side of its branches. This strain has Pakistani genetics from Citral Valley. It has been crossed to improve bud formation and amount of yield. With its Pakistani heritage, Yarkoum is improved to be a type of stain that is easy to cultivate and to clone and is forgiving to weed growers’ mistakes."

I like smoking sativas but growing them is a pain. A strain like Satori manages to keep the sat high while still having a decent yield. I'd like to get some DJ Short Flo generics. Sat leaning, high ceiling and fairly manageable to grow.

For breeding purposes, I have two landrace sativas. Youruba (from Nigeria) and a Burmese Sative from Reeferman seeds. I also, on a whim, bought a couple of mixed seed packs including Mr Nice Walkabout mix. Outdoor sativa types though could be grown indoors with diligence.

I had to take a break from growing and so most of my genetics has some age to it. Youngest seeds are 6 years old. So getting them to germinate will be my first challenge.

Am experimenting with a method called cold stratification to break dormancy on an old seed. Currently I have 8 seeds undergoing this protocol. So I'll know in about 6 weeks if the method works.

Good luck on your projects...
JD

BC,

The PCK that Ace and CBG offer is straight out of the Chitrali mountains, the green pheno is stronger than the coloured phenos. How many Malawis do you have though? I got very very lucky and got the 'killer' thin leaf pheno, I too look to make a PCK x Killer Malawi cross but I only have 1 fem Chitrali and wont cross it if it's the green pheno.

JD,
you can still tell which males are stronger than the others, the aroma and visible resin would be a way to tell but you're right about the recessive traits and I do agree that their would be a lot of random luck in breeding but I heard the males genetics dominate over the mother in the progeny - so sativa pollen be best if you wanted more sativa leaning progeny.
I reckon outdoor breeding is best for maintaining 'hardness' and vigour, vigour is another problem in breeding to maintain - I'd say you'd have to keep an original parent alive or store some pollen or inject some feral lines into your project.

The Chitrali plants offered by CBG don't have too much vigour because the are inbred for hundreds of years!, same with the Tashkent plant I have running but it takes off after awhile.

Good luck with the Yarkuom seeds mate, I hope the crack and give you some nicely coloured phenos to play with. Check out Cannabiogen and Ace for pure sativas that can be grown indoors easily! - Destroyer,Malawi,Bangi haze,Guatamala etc are pure sativas with moderate flower times, especially the Malawi - so easy to grow for a landrace and is only 12-14 weeks.

Cheers.