General Organics PH Question

I've been using General Organics nute line up for a while and have been happy. I do have one question and I haven't been able to find an answer. I have seen many people ask the samething with no definitive answer. When mixing the nutes GO suggest not to PH because they are fully chelated. But when I read the PH it seems to be around a PH of 4. I have been adding PH up to balance it around 6.5. When doing so I find myself adding alot of PH up when mixing 5gal. I typically use around 7tsps. Why? What should I do. I have double checked my ph meter. Bought a new one and used litmus drops.

Dang..mine are perfect. Whats your starting water pH?

Ph of tap is 7-7.3. I've ph'd and not with no difference. Plants are healthy. Just curious. Do you Ph?

6.8 to 6.7 . My water is 7. I'm in soil. That with 2 meters and paper.

And you're using General organics? What is your mixture?

You know why... the organic nutrients tend to be highly acidic initially. IF you wanted to try to 'balance' that out or neutralize it yourself you're gonna need a lot of additional hydroxide ions (OH-), which in your case you're getting from synthetic pH Up, potassium hydroxide.

The good news is, no, you really don't need to use any pH Up, and in my opinion and experience you really shouldn't. Make sure you have enough dolomite/calcitic limestone, pulverized oyster and/or eggshell in your medium (especially sphagnum-based potting mixes). Dolomite is best because it has some magnesium along with the calcium. The calcium/magnesium carbonates dissolve and balance pH gradually.

Plants and a healthy microherd will also put pH where the plant wants it to be. Healthy living soil really doesn't need to be exactly 6.5, and pH is even less significant when you're using organic acids/chelating agents (humic/fulvic acids).

I use the same nutes... I don't PH before mixing.
My water here PH's out @ 7.5 . After mixing nutes it drops to 6.3
I don't know whats up with such a large decrease in your Ph after mixing nutes.

Question; What is you waters PH to start?
What are you using to test PH?
Following the direction for GO?

Just checking. You do know that 5ml = 1 teaspoon and 10ml = 2 teaspoons?

Used two milwaukee ph600 and litmus to test. Yes following the feed schedule everyonce in a while with the ph still being around 4-5 range. Yes I know my measurement conversions. Only thing I can think of is if both my meters are bad out of the box as well as the ph dye. Thanks for the help though. I'm still not sure what to think. I hate to feed my plants with a solution of such alkalinity but also hate to add so much ph up. Since I usually bubble my solution maybe that drops the PH? I dunno. Thanks. +rep to all

Nullis said:

You know why... the organic nutrients tend to be highly acidic initially. IF you wanted to try to 'balance' that out or neutralize it yourself you're gonna need a lot of additional hydroxide ions (OH-), which in your case you're getting from synthetic pH Up, potassium hydroxide.

The good news is, no, you really don't need to use any pH Up, and in my opinion and experience you really shouldn't. Make sure you have enough dolomite/calcitic limestone, pulverized oyster and/or eggshell in your medium (especially sphagnum-based potting mixes). Dolomite is best because it has some magnesium along with the calcium. The calcium/magnesium carbonates dissolve and balance pH gradually.

Plants and a healthy microherd will also put pH where the plant wants it to be. Healthy living soil really doesn't need to be exactly 6.5, and pH is even less significant when you're using organic acids/chelating agents (humic/fulvic acids).

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Thank you Nullis. That makes complete sense. But why are others not having a problem with ph using the same nutrients?

Ive ben using this for awhile and i also have the miluwaki ph600 after mixing mines usually drops to 5.5-5.8

I don't use GO, I use Earth Juice (if anything). Earth Juice Grow after mixing at standard rates into bottled/filtered water easily makes the pH around 4, and I do not adjust this with anything. Sometimes I aerate the solution which brings it up to 7 after about 30 hours, sometimes I use Peruvian Seabird Guano which raises the pH of the solution significantly in its own right... but all in all I don't fuss with the pH of anything I pour onto the soil.

It could be you're using more than they are, it could be that they are using tap water with high amounts of minerals like calcium carbonate already dissolved in it. Maybe you even got an inconsistent batch. All I know is pH Up probably does more harm than good and it is better to just amend the mix with dolomite. You might try contacting the company with your concerns, I would suggest via email.

The manufacturer of Earth Juice tells you pH adjustment isn't required, initially pH will drop and then begin to rise. They also tell you aeration isn't a requirement and I used EJ for a couple years knowing nothing of AACT or anything without issue. Aerating is basically just like an optional bonus step you can take to wake up the microbes, and due to that the pH will rise (thanks largely to bacterial bio-slime).

Cannikid said:

Ph of tap is 7-7.3. I've ph'd and not with no difference. Plants are healthy. Just curious. Do you Ph?

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3 things.

If there is 'no difference' in the plants health, quit dumping all that pH+ on them.

Quit trying to out think the manufacturers. They say don't pH and they make the stuff.

Listen to Nullis and put your pH meters and test strips in the drawer. Mine hasn't been out of the box in over 9 months.

Wet

Haha totally agree with you guys. I'm just coming from the world of synthetics so it come second nature to second guess the manufactures recommendations. So I was just under the impression that organics would be the same. But after learning about chelated compounds ect. I now understand that Ph is not important with organics. Thanks for all the support. This is why RIU continues to be the best community.

Cannikid said:

Haha totally agree with you guys. I'm just coming from the world of synthetics so it come second nature to second guess the manufactures recommendations. So I was just under the impression that organics would be the same. But after learning about chelated compounds ect. I now understand that Ph is not important with organics. Thanks for all the support. This is why RIU continues to be the best community.

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You shouldn't have any problems throwing the nutes straight into the soil. Have you tried aerating the mix before feeding, if so did that effect the ph in any way?

CaliMackdaddy said:

You shouldn't have any problems throwing the nutes straight into the soil. Have you tried aerating the mix before feeding, if so did that effect the ph in any way?

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Do not aerate the mix because GO doesn't recommentit. REread Wetdog's comment.

Cannikid said:

Thank you Nullis. That makes complete sense. But why are others not having a problem with ph using the same nutrients?

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It probably has something to do with what is already in the water they are using before they add the nutrients to it. Water treatment plants in different cities do not all use the exact same methods when cleaning the water, which means different levels of contaminates depending on where your water is coming from. As many have already said and from all the information I have read about General Organics, you do not want to mess with the PH of the solution(at least not in soil or soilless mediums) because the PH will rise on its own due to changes in levels of bacteria and fungus after being introduced into the soil.

I know I am new to this site but I have done extensive research regarding this issue and this is the majority vote on the subject from all the sources I have checked.