Genetic Chimera - Two-tone Lady

Have you ever had a chimera?

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  • No, but I know someone who has

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riffraff8

riffraff8

Member
New microscope came! This thing is definitely strong enough to see them, if I've got any type of mites. For anyone looking for what type of microscope to buy: the cheap cheap ones, $20 and under probably won't cut it, and will be a waste. I found that the $35-$40 range (check Amazon) has some decent USB microscopes that have a small resolution (640x480px), but a good zoom (200-250x) within that window, and those will absolutely work for spotting mites and scoping your plants. You don't need to shell out $100+ for the nice ones like you had in science class.

Now for my update:
So far I've only looked over one plant, a clone which is strongly showing the affliction. It's growing spectacularly, and until I posted this thread, I would have though it is completely healthy. Looked her up, down, and sideways under leaves, on top, on stemps and near the bottom, on new growth and near the top. I've concluded that on this particular clone, there is ZERO MOVEMENT! :D I'm going to be painstakingly checking my other plants including my two mothers, and will report back on those. I do, however, feel good that a clone with the albino hook-hands is completely movement-free, and nothing looks amiss. I'll post a few of my microscope snapshots for those curious. There were small spheres which I was afraid were eggs, but they are evenly dispersed, and everywhere, with nothing at all moving. Looks like these are my trichome sites, and are seen on leaves and on stems as well. Pretty neat!

T20160206_001_0203.jpg T20160206_001_0241.jpg T20160206_001_0318.jpg T20160206_001_0349.jpg T20160206_001_0570.jpg
 
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riffraff8

riffraff8

Member
I've now checked 4 plants, and have found nothing for mites. I'm going to keep checking, and definitely check at different stages of the grow, but I don't think I've got them, thank the cannabis gods! My guess has to be genetic, as initially thought. Nothing else seems to explain it being so restricted to all the clones from this same plant and the mother for months and months. They've been in the exact same environment as the others, touching in some cases, cut with the same shears, watered the same water, soil from the same bag, etc etc. I think environmental has to be ruled out and thus I think genetic is all that's left.

I do, however, have some guesses as to that discoloration on all the new buds on the chimeral mother, and the yellow tips on a few leaves (more on that plant, but slightly on both). I've been increasing nute strength recently, and thing I slightly overdid it, as well as fed a bit more to that mother because of her size. I believe I overdid it slightly, as all that very light green growth (aside from the split leaves) and touch of tip burn is new as of this week, it was never seen before in this grow.

Second, I've been feeding my plants tap water, which tested to a proper pH at the beginning of the grow (6.0 - 6.5 for soil), and haven't tested it again since. Just tested it today, and I'm at a 7.0 to 7.5. I hadn't accounted for a fluctuation in the pH of our city reservoir water, and I think ALL plants have been slightly on the basic side rather than slightly acidic for an unknown amount of time.

Third, and I'm not sure if this really has any effect or not. I got a new humidity controller the other day, and had the humidity set on the high end of my VPD range. One night I accidentally let the house temperature drop too much while the lights were out, and lots of water condensed on both mothers. They were dewy-to-wet in the morning. By then the lights were on, and I lowered the humidity ~10% rH and everything dried up within a few hours and returned to normal. I kept the humidity 5-10% lower than usual for the next day, just to ensure everything dried nicely and didn't get moldy. I don't believe this caused any issues, but I'll throw it in as the third recent variance that may have caused the slight damage seen on newer growth, focused more on the chimera mother, but also slightly on the other plant.

Again, until these slight problems very recently, even exhibiting the seeming chimerism, the one mother and 4 clones from that plant all grow fantastically, and show no signs of any ailment aside from that discoloration (which I'll add is usually sharply drawn in distinct lines of light green/dark green, sometimes the lines run along the main leaf vein, and sometimes they cross over at an angle or curve, but the line is always distinct and never fuzzy) and the hook-shape.

My conclusion unless it changes is that, if I do have broad mites, that they are the pickiest eater broad mites; that the majority of them are, for some reason, entirely celibate; and that my plants seem to grow faster and look cooler when they're around. Not a bad deal! I appreciate everyone's help on this, and will remember the lesson to always be vigilant, and keep the new scope handy. And also not to drink city tap water, even if you're a plant ;)
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
riffraff8 said:
I've now checked 4 plants, and have found nothing for mites. I'm going to keep checking, and definitely check at different stages of the grow, but I don't think I've got them, thank the cannabis gods! My guess has to be genetic, as initially thought. Nothing else seems to explain it being so restricted to all the clones from this same plant and the mother for months and months. They've been in the exact same environment as the others, touching in some cases, cut with the same shears, watered the same water, soil from the same bag, etc etc. I think environmental has to be ruled out and thus I think genetic is all that's left.

I do, however, have some guesses as to that discoloration on all the new buds on the chimeral mother, and the yellow tips on a few leaves (more on that plant, but slightly on both). I've been increasing nute strength recently, and thing I slightly overdid it, as well as fed a bit more to that mother because of her size. I believe I overdid it slightly, as all that very light green growth (aside from the split leaves) and touch of tip burn is new as of this week, it was never seen before in this grow.

Second, I've been feeding my plants tap water, which tested to a proper pH at the beginning of the grow (6.0 - 6.5 for soil), and haven't tested it again since. Just tested it today, and I'm at a 7.0 to 7.5. I hadn't accounted for a fluctuation in the pH of our city reservoir water, and I think ALL plants have been slightly on the basic side rather than slightly acidic for an unknown amount of time.

Third, and I'm not sure if this really has any effect or not. I got a new humidity controller the other day, and had the humidity set on the high end of my VPD range. One night I accidentally let the house temperature drop too much while the lights were out, and lots of water condensed on both mothers. They were dewy-to-wet in the morning. By then the lights were on, and I lowered the humidity ~10% rH and everything dried up within a few hours and returned to normal. I kept the humidity 5-10% lower than usual for the next day, just to ensure everything dried nicely and didn't get moldy. I don't believe this caused any issues, but I'll throw it in as the third recent variance that may have caused the slight damage seen on newer growth, focused more on the chimera mother, but also slightly on the other plant.

Again, until these slight problems very recently, even exhibiting the seeming chimerism, the one mother and 4 clones from that plant all grow fantastically, and show no signs of any ailment aside from that discoloration (which I'll add is usually sharply drawn in distinct lines of light green/dark green, sometimes the lines run along the main leaf vein, and sometimes they cross over at an angle or curve, but the line is always distinct and never fuzzy) and the hook-shape.

My conclusion unless it changes is that, if I do have broad mites, that they are the pickiest eater broad mites; that the majority of them are, for some reason, entirely celibate; and that my plants seem to grow faster and look cooler when they're around. Not a bad deal! I appreciate everyone's help on this, and will remember the lesson to always be vigilant, and keep the new scope handy. And also not to drink city tap water, even if you're a plant ;)
Click to expand...
NEW LESSON!!!

You have to catch them OUTSIDE the leaf stems too "see" them! They burrow IN - why you can't see them!

You HAVE broad mites sonny! They spread slow and prefer new/soft growth to start their work on....This is why you see it in some clones and not others as they came from effected area's of the plant vs. not so much!

I've been growing this plant for longer then you have most likely been alive! BROAD MITES!
It's sad how many people go into denial and try to prove something as not being the problem instead of just spending FAR less on a 1/4 oz of "solution to the problem"!

Your right - TMV is most likely NOT able to infect MM! I have personally sent over 250 samples to MSU for testing, spoken to grad students,Prof's and extension farm Agronomists and have never had a poss. ! You prob. read my posts on TMV or Sunn Hemp V.

Here is an inexpencive amount of FORBID - it takes 8 DROPS per 1 gallon of water to work!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Forbid-4F-Miticide-Spiromesifen-1-4-OZ-as-gift-when-you-purchase-2-pipettes-/151970878772?hash=item23622b9534:g:BccAAOxyaTxTWNd1

Forbid is not toxic to humans as far as testing has shown! They tested it at intake levels that are pretty much drinking the concentrate!

It's basically an organic acid that is translaminar. That means that with a light spray of the plants leaf surface. The Forbid moves through the leaf to it's bottom (where mites feed) and is ingested/absorbed and they block lipid fats from being absorbed by the mite and they "dry out" like a mummy - dessicated ! Forbid does not move through out the whole plant!

Now then. Many of the pictures you find on the internet are not exactly what they describe them to be......Lots of folks post shit and it is wrong......Or would you like to send me your bank account # as I'm a Nigerian prince that needs to transfer money and I'll give you a million for your trouble!

BROAD MITES - TREAT!

Doc
 
riffraff8

riffraff8

Member
Much appreciated doc, I trust your word over my inexperience having never had the problem. That ebay link is exactly what I needed, I heard there were small sample sizes available on there, but when I did a search I could only find the $200+ bottles. This makes it much more cost-effective to treat, so that's what I'm going to do. The Forbid is on its way. I know you and others suggested spraying this on the plants (after mixing @ proper strength in a gallon of water). Is a regular spray bottle on mist mode good for this, or should I buy one of those fancy pest-control mister applicator things?

I've read lots of people saying to cycle this, with other treatments, space them a few days apart, I often see 3 treatments within 7 days suggested to kill adults, then pupae or whatever's in between, then the eggs as they hatch if they aren't already killed. I've also read not to reapply the forbid during one grow cycle, and that it's suggested that you cycle in something else for the other applications. Can you confirm the best way to do this in your experience, Doc? I'd rather go a little overboard and make sure I take care of the problem thoroughly, but if forbid always works without any other treatment, then I guess there's no reason to waste chemicals. Advice on that greatly appreciated. Otherwise, it will be a few days before the forbid (and any other chemicals / applicators that I need) come, so I'll be planning my method of attack.

Thanks again!
 
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