Germination rates and poll

brimck325 said:

some folks you just can't reach. care to explain the proper method?

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brimck325 said:

thats what i thought...lol

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Uncle Ben said:

Not at all, BUT, every circumstance is different. Again, it's all in the technique based on what you've got. Here's a few archives/posts I wrote years ago, the first one at the old OG site:
There is paradigm, a myth if you will, parroted in cannabis forums that some how upcanning (transplanting) a plant "shocks" it or sets it back. That is simply not true unless you're lame enough to break up the rootball thereby destroying the very fine roots and root hairs. I'll explain further....

The bottomless pot in a larger pot drill ignores the fact that the majority of feeder roots of most plant material, and this includes trees, is found within 8" to 12" of ground level. When you take a bottomless pot and set it on top of some soii in a large pot, you are still restricting the roots found at the prime upper and mid-levels of the rootball and basically focusing them downward, to continue a condition called "spin-out". This is not effective or efficient as it is a poor utilization of the soil and deprives the plant of what could have been regarding potential water/nute uptake. You want massive root branching in the top and middle third levels for the sake of efficiency, plant health, etc. The lower roots are primarily used as anchoring units. As an aside, if you read something around here that isn't practiced by the general horticultural community, then its highly suspect. Double potting is not one of those "sound" horticultural practices.

Nature of upcanning.....one needs to only upcan once, or twice at the most, to get to where they need to go and that includes growing sativas. I go from a small pot into a 3 or 5 gallon to finish out the plant for example. Any more than that is a waste of time and resources and does not benefit the plant to any large degree. If you've waited too long to upcan, and the plant is large and hard to handle like yours might be about now, there is a sound solution. Place the pot on its side on an outdoors table so that the foliage is hanging over the edge. Lightly rotate and bounce the pot until the rootball is dislodged, and then gently work the rootball out of the pot. With one hand holding the stem and the other holding the *bottom* of the rootball, place it into the new pot that has been properly prepared with soil. Point - do not hold the plant by its stem as the weight of the rootball will injure roots. Letting the pot dry out more than usual will cause the soil to pull away from the sides of the old pot and aid in removing the plant.

Work fresh soil around the rootball and gently bounce it on the ground to settle the soil. Setting the plant deeper than normal will induce new root output from the submerged stem. For sativas, this is great as it takes a little time for the plant to respond, although sativas are notorious for sending out shallow, adventitious roots, kinda like a corn plant does. The addition of a surfactant like 1/4 tsp of Ivory dish detergent will enhance water distribution throughout the soil by easing the soil particle surface tension. If you have "Hi-Yield Spreader-Sticker", it's an even better surfactant, again, 1/4 tsp/gallon will do it.

As an aside, if when you popped the plant out of its old pot, you note alot of root spin-out suggesting it was rootbound, then you should score the rootball to encourage lateral root branching which will induce new roots that will quickly explore the new soil. This will really make the plant take off, will increase vigor, and produce a robust, healthy plant. (No, it won't cause a soil fungus invasion and rotting of the roots.) Set the plant upright on the table, and using a new single-edge razor blade, cut 1/2" into the rootball from top to bottom. Rotate the plant or work your way around the rootball and score it this way about 4 or 5 times. Within a few days, the plant will respond with profuse lateral branching while exploring the new soil TOP to bottom which is what you want. As an aside, the diameter of a pot is more important than its depth regarding potential root mass.

Roots are the very foundation of a healthy, high yielding plant. Take care of them, and the rest will follow.

....and
As far as transplanting is concerned, you can do it but it may be a two man job at this point due to the size of the plant. Have your larger pot ready to go, put your hand over the soil with the trunk between your middle fingers to support it, have a friend help you lift it up in the air and turn it over. Sharply bring the top of the pot down on a counter top to dislodge it whereby the rootball is supported by your hand. It will come out with a solid rootball at this point in its life. Invert it upright, drop it into the new pot, and topfill the pot with soil leaving a 1" well in the pot for the convenience of watering. Support it by the rootball at all times - do not hold it by the trunk with the rootball dangling in the air. Once you have settled the soil with a good drench of tap water. The plant won't even know it's been disturbed if you're careful and will get a new lease on life with increased vigor.

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Uncle Ben said:

Not true. Get some experience before making such statements. ALL plant material benefits from upcanning as reflected in renewed vigor within days. Ever thought there might be good reason why gardening professionals start with a small pot and then graduate to bigger ones?

http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Myths/Fragile roots.pdf

Click to expand...

Uncle Ben said:

Not at all, BUT, every circumstance is different. Again, it's all in the technique based on what you've got. Here's a few archives/posts I wrote years ago, the first one at the old OG site:
There is paradigm, a myth if you will, parroted in cannabis forums that some how upcanning (transplanting) a plant "shocks" it or sets it back. That is simply not true unless you're lame enough to break up the rootball thereby destroying the very fine roots and root hairs. I'll explain further....

The bottomless pot in a larger pot drill ignores the fact that the majority of feeder roots of most plant material, and this includes trees, is found within 8" to 12" of ground level. When you take a bottomless pot and set it on top of some soii in a large pot, you are still restricting the roots found at the prime upper and mid-levels of the rootball and basically focusing them downward, to continue a condition called "spin-out". This is not effective or efficient as it is a poor utilization of the soil and deprives the plant of what could have been regarding potential water/nute uptake. You want massive root branching in the top and middle third levels for the sake of efficiency, plant health, etc. The lower roots are primarily used as anchoring units. As an aside, if you read something around here that isn't practiced by the general horticultural community, then its highly suspect. Double potting is not one of those "sound" horticultural practices.

Nature of upcanning.....one needs to only upcan once, or twice at the most, to get to where they need to go and that includes growing sativas. I go from a small pot into a 3 or 5 gallon to finish out the plant for example. Any more than that is a waste of time and resources and does not benefit the plant to any large degree. If you've waited too long to upcan, and the plant is large and hard to handle like yours might be about now, there is a sound solution. Place the pot on its side on an outdoors table so that the foliage is hanging over the edge. Lightly rotate and bounce the pot until the rootball is dislodged, and then gently work the rootball out of the pot. With one hand holding the stem and the other holding the *bottom* of the rootball, place it into the new pot that has been properly prepared with soil. Point - do not hold the plant by its stem as the weight of the rootball will injure roots. Letting the pot dry out more than usual will cause the soil to pull away from the sides of the old pot and aid in removing the plant.

Work fresh soil around the rootball and gently bounce it on the ground to settle the soil. Setting the plant deeper than normal will induce new root output from the submerged stem. For sativas, this is great as it takes a little time for the plant to respond, although sativas are notorious for sending out shallow, adventitious roots, kinda like a corn plant does. The addition of a surfactant like 1/4 tsp of Ivory dish detergent will enhance water distribution throughout the soil by easing the soil particle surface tension. If you have "Hi-Yield Spreader-Sticker", it's an even better surfactant, again, 1/4 tsp/gallon will do it.

As an aside, if when you popped the plant out of its old pot, you note alot of root spin-out suggesting it was rootbound, then you should score the rootball to encourage lateral root branching which will induce new roots that will quickly explore the new soil. This will really make the plant take off, will increase vigor, and produce a robust, healthy plant. (No, it won't cause a soil fungus invasion and rotting of the roots.) Set the plant upright on the table, and using a new single-edge razor blade, cut 1/2" into the rootball from top to bottom. Rotate the plant or work your way around the rootball and score it this way about 4 or 5 times. Within a few days, the plant will respond with profuse lateral branching while exploring the new soil TOP to bottom which is what you want. As an aside, the diameter of a pot is more important than its depth regarding potential root mass.

Roots are the very foundation of a healthy, high yielding plant. Take care of them, and the rest will follow.

....and
As far as transplanting is concerned, you can do it but it may be a two man job at this point due to the size of the plant. Have your larger pot ready to go, put your hand over the soil with the trunk between your middle fingers to support it, have a friend help you lift it up in the air and turn it over. Sharply bring the top of the pot down on a counter top to dislodge it whereby the rootball is supported by your hand. It will come out with a solid rootball at this point in its life. Invert it upright, drop it into the new pot, and topfill the pot with soil leaving a 1" well in the pot for the convenience of watering. Support it by the rootball at all times - do not hold it by the trunk with the rootball dangling in the air. Once you have settled the soil with a good drench of tap water. The plant won't even know it's been disturbed if you're careful and will get a new lease on life with increased vigor.

Click to expand...

AlphaPhase said:

I was reading your transplant scripture UB. When I got to the part about twisting and bouncing the pot off from a table while the plant is laying on it's side..then I remembered your post before that saying it doesn't cause shock.. you kinda lost me.....blah

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HayStax said:

You can tell just from the type of language used the Uncle Ben has been somehow involved in arboriculture, I'm guessing On the nursery side but possible just landscaper. Dealing almost entirely with perennials and/or deciduous trees. His info isn't entirely inaccurate, but his conclusions aren't quite correct. Basically, transplanting is less stressful than leaving your plant root bound in a new pot. His theory on new roots forming above the original set is also partially correct. Yes new roots will from above the original roots after transplanting, especially if you bury a few inches of stem, this would be a good thing to do when transplanting your clones into their first up sized pot. After that, and especially on the trees/shrubs U.B. is used to, this technique of forcing new roots above the original mass is usually detrimental in that the new roots can and often do cut off nutrients by strangling the main stem, especially if the pot is too small to began with. This is way all the trees you see in office parks that look like telephone poles stuck in the ground instead of being planting where you can visibly see the root flare at the base, usually only last 5-10 years. Reference root girdling.

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....this technique of forcing new roots above the original mass is usually detrimental in that the new roots can and often do cut off nutrients by strangling the main stem, especially if the pot is too small to began with.

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