Getting ready for DIY LED and Grow Room...looking for advice.

Is the Noob undertaking too much for his first project?

  • No- he can do it on time and within budget

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Maybe - he needs to adjust either the dollars or the scope.

    Votes: 3 100.0%

  • Yep--he's doomed...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .
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donzoid

Member
Hi y'all,

Apologies in advance for the novella...thanks in advance for those who can endure to the end.

I'm new to the forum, and LED tech, but I build things other than this like vacuum tube amplifiers. Since my budget is so tight it squeeeeeks I have been lurking this and other cool forums to try to quickly get up to speed on the tech issues - There's so much info, my brains are turning to mush. This won't be my first rodeo, but it sure has been a LONG time ago since my last indoor grow. Pretty excited to start again! I'm using FF/OF as grow medium, probably Roots org and bat guano, and run some CO2 (if that makes a diff).

I want to use LED's; preferably COB's and lots of them. I'm good with/have a nice soldering iron, and way more tools than I need so looking for build/bom advice from some of the experienced DIY LED builders...I've looked at many here by several of you and my hats off to all of you for your resourcefulness. I just have to maximize to the hilt my “bang for buck” ratio- I won't have any funding to “re-do” later... so asking for help to get it RIGHT the first time. Once I finalize the BOM, I'll start a thread for the adventure!

Here are my considerations:
  1. I don't want to compromise the quality of the product to save a buck. I'd rather do smaller lots than bigger with less quality. I have room to expand beyond the space listed below though and will be expanding IF I can afford.

  2. My current plants are outside. That's only good for one season here....my wife needs meds year-round. The outsider girls will get cloned within the next couple weeks so I “gotta” get my arse in gear and build these lights!

  3. I have a lot of space to throw at this. I'm framing in a room inside my shop now, and its 12 by 14 (or 16 if I wanted it to be could even be 12x24) so space is plentiful, and air flow-through also will be good, with a small cloning area, a veg area, and the flower room will be at least 6x12 (72sqft or about half the total sq.ft) Ultimately I could end up using 1000 sq. ft. LOL.

  4. I have some 4' T5 for the cloning room already

  5. I don't think after what I've read that I would need as many watts/cobs on the veg side. Or maybe buy “older” panels using 3 or 5 watt full-spectrums might be enough?. I'd like to be running about 600 to 800 watts (actual draw) in 30 or 50 watt COB's for the flower side. Preferably passive cooled but being a PC builder for many years, I have LOTS of fans.

  6. I am considering a 400 or 600w HPS as a supplement to the LED's on the flower side because it gets pretty darn cold here in winter, and the heat may help. I'd rather not run any of the old school stuff tho, because all other times of the year its more heat to disperse, and costs too much to run. There is lots of it available though.

  7. Here is the kicker: The old budget...I still have some stuff to buy to finish the room like osb and studs, sheet rock etc. probably 300 bucks more stuff so that leaves me with about 1200 to purchase parts like the cobs, heatsinks, CC power supplies – stuff like that. I have some aluminum to frame them, or could use shelving instead (but that concerns me as wood or particle board is a potential fire issue). I have all the switches, wire, screws/nails/heat sink grease/ drills/taps/self tap screws etc that I need so kinda cash poor materials rich. Every single dollar counts, PLUS the end cost of running it. My target is 1.00 per watt (draw) to build. The Battlestar Ganjatica gets pretty close (I think it was 1.20 a watt if I crunched the numbers right) not sure tho if its “enough” for the space.

  8. At first I was dead-set on staying with Cree but after looking at some of your community's builds, I would be open to Bridgelux, or others like Chinese epiled types if you guys/gals are having success with them. On the veg side – there are a lot of pre-made “older tech” panels like Galaxy or Mars that might work for that side that are going cheap everywhere I look. But my preference would be 4 to 6 / 30 to 50 watt COBS that I could use for either side (veg primary or flower if I moved them over). I'm too new to this to know which way to go.
OK enough enough already! Can I get there with what I have or (pref) less cash out?

What smaller/specialty led's do I need to add to the COB's (deep reds or IR, etc) if any?

Can you “more advanced number crunchers” tell me if my guesstimates for wattage on the veg and flower sides are even approximately close at 300-400 veg side/600 to 800 flower side? (power in watts drawn from the wall)

Have I seriously overlooked something in this plan or made wrong assumptions? I hope to find this out before I start purchasing materials. Any advice on component selection (and especially the cheapest suppliers) is appreciated! Thanks for enduring if you read that whole thing! Cheers!
 
Getgrowingson

Getgrowingson

Well-Known Member
1200$ to run that much space in cobs might be a little short. If your budget is stiff I would look into CPU coolers and some vero29s driven fairly high. I'm sure it will be possible but efficiency will take a hit. Either invest the money front end a run at high efficiency or pay for it overtime by running more watts. I'm building a cxb3590 600w light and all in all it will cost me around your whole budget.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
Vero 29 3500 $27 from digikey. CPU sink fan combo $10. 2.4 amp driver $35. X 8 gives 800w for $600 approx plus some aluminum angle etc. 12v supply at 2a $4 from fleabay. I glue my veros on. Priceless.
 
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donzoid

Member
@GetGrowing...thanks I appreciate the insight. Since this is my first build I know there will be additional unanticipated expenses (there are with any project). That is also why I kinda caved in and I am looking at the Chinese stuff too.
 
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donzoid

Member
@Dandy (and Getgr...) thanks I'll go look at the Vero's. Looks like several people on here have built with them and have good results. As I said, I may have to scale back the size of my room with a simple "for-now" divider as I want to keep my PAR/w high.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
I use around 500 to 600 w in the area. It would probably light a 5x5 area. Maybe more cranked. The drivers are variable that I use. I am building 2 with 4 cobs each now made vwith 5" square vinyl fencepost. Like a cool good. Check out the show me led thread on riu.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
It's under the led section, I believe show me your led. That is a thread with many pics of different working ideas. Tons of info here. I don't know if there is a best way to grow but I find for me cobs work great. HID as well as some of the cmh lamps are great options and cheaper. Look around.
 
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Halfanimal

Member
I think your budget is doable but it would be cutting it close. Part of it will depend on if you want to get less cobs and drive them harder (the Veros seem better for that) or more cobs driven softer which can allow for a more even light spread (I prefer Cree but Veros seem to work really well too).

Then there's the bare light vs. lens vs. reflector debate...for you and your budget I would just use a bare light as these cobs work well without them. My Crees claim a 115 degree angle output, however it seemed closer to 150-160 degree angles. I'm not completely sold on lenses because I've read a few places you get some light loss as it passes through the glass although it will focus the light better. I'm a fan of the reflector concept as the will only effect the light that is going to the sides and focusing it down, but it leaves the light that is already going down alone if that makes sense. The downside to reflectors and lenses is that you really have to know the angle you want and how far above the canopy you'll be placing it to make sure you don't cut off lights from the edges.
 
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donzoid

Member
Thanks for the replies everyone! It seems the more I look at the budget and the space I have - the more options I have to consider with less n less money LOL. So I am certainly taking all your feedback to heart and looking at: Combination of HPS and LED, build some/buy some cheaper Chinese ones for example, Panda (using Osram, or so they say...uh huh) but I did look long and hard at the Vero's and they look very good for building (seems as good as the Cree).

Considering how incredibly fast the tech is advancing, anything I pick will be obsolete in one year...just like a PC. I work in the tech sector. So I guess my point is, I would rather buy fewer and drive them harder - knowing I'm going to want to upgrade anyway between one and two years away.
I've seen Kingbrite mentioned in several places. Is that an LED mfg. brand, or a seller on Ali? (I tried a search got all kinds of hits but not sure that's the same one being talked about cause it sounded like a specific seller) If one of y'all could gimme a link so I could go do some comparison pricing, I'd be forever grateful...
 
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donzoid

Member
Arrrighty, just wanted to give you an update and let you know I didn't "disappear" (not altogether anyway).

First thanks to all who gave feedback on my questions/scenario. My plan going forward is:
1. Build a partition in the flower room and cut the room size to 5x8 with the option to remove the partition wall, allowing me to expand (quickly) or move the girls if needed etc.
2. I'm going to build or buy a cheap Chinese COB fixture; plus
3. DIY a Bridgelux Vero 29, with 6 on it to start, and build a "small" DIY vegging fixture with 2 COBS with a higher Kelvin. I already have several 4' CFL's ... if that doesn't cut it for desired concentration on the clone/veg side I'll bite the bullet and build another 2-cob fixture but I think its going to be fine.

That eliminates looking at blurple panels for veg, cuts costs and best of all, will allow me to put the Chinese product toe-to-toe with the Vero.

It will take me a week or two to get the parts in. My final question is, how many "extra" far-red/deep blue LEDs would I need to create the extra UV/IR bands? I thought I would build those separately since they should be pretty small, power them such that I can switch one, or both and have the complete spectrum. Unless it really isn't necessary, but I see a lot of the folks on here are doing something similar...thanks again!
 
coolbreez1

coolbreez1

Well-Known Member
I was able to hit about $0.7 per watt with my last build, by using Meanwell RSP-320-36 power supplies, they are only 90% efficient but they crush it when it comes to cost when compared with anything else I have found, from a reputable supplier, with an order over more then 10 they cost only $51 each, plus shipping. They also have three power outputs, so it is a simple matter to run three Vero 29s off each power supply. This being said, I have yet to do anything but test run the build, I am still waiting for my tents to arrive later today to set them up for there first longer running test cycle. The cat is out of the bag now everyone knows my competitive advantage! :( Oh well, might as well contribute something with all I have learned here.
 
caretak3r

caretak3r

Well-Known Member
coolbreez1 said:
I was able to hit about $0.7 per watt with my last build, by using Meanwell RSP-320-36 power supplies, they are only 90% efficient but they crush it when it comes to cost when compared with anything else I have found, from a reputable supplier, with an order over more then 10 they cost only $51 each, plus shipping. They also have three power outputs, so it is a simple matter to run three Vero 29s off each power supply. This being said, I have yet to do anything but test run the build, I am still waiting for my tents to arrive later today to set them up for there first longer running test cycle. The cat is out of the bag now everyone knows my competitive advantage! :( Oh well, might as well contribute something with all I have learned here.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong, but those look like constant voltage power supplies, not constant current. You may run into longevity issues with your COBs if that is true.
 
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