GH Waterfarm, First Hydro Grow. Hopefully catching a problem early. Help?

Hi all, here's the problem:
Strange waviness to leaves with some brown or necrotic looking spots starting to develop. The spots don't appear to prefer a location on the leaf, there are little brown spots here and there. Older leaves only.

Grow details:
Indoor, 2 1/2 weeks from seed
3x3x7 cabinet
General Hydroponics Waterfarm (recirculating DWC) 2 Gallon with Hydroton
Using the GH Nutrient schedule for seedlings (1/2 strength) with Tap Water that has an average of 160PPM before nutrients are added.
Also using some roots excelurator, and a bacterial innoculent at 3/4 recommended amounts.
Mars Hydro Mars II 700W LED, currently at 20" from canopy
Average Temps: 70F Night, 74F Day (Very consistent)
Average RH: 60 Night, 45-50 Day (Pretty consistent)
Plant variety: Dinafem Critical+ feminized

Recirc pump runs during lights on, 20/4 currently. I've not noticed traditional overwatering symptoms, so I've kept the pump running constantly, except at lights out.

I pH to 5.5-6 using the drops, though I see a rise in pH after a couple days(thus the use of the bennies) I change the water weekly, that's two water changes so far, and I top off with pH'd water when the level gets an inch below the fill line. I try to keep water temps about the same, though they may be a degree or two cooler than the reservoir, which I just measured at about 70F.

I've noticed small droplets of water getting onto the leaves, from the recirc water. Not sure if that could be it, or maybe I need the Hard Water micro, or my light is slightly too close.

Anyone have any ideas?







Plant is otherwise healthy and appears to be growing well.

I visited the local shoppe and they weren't of much help. But, we talked through a few things and decided the smart approach is to move forward with the planned increase to full strength nutrients, and I raised the light to 24".

And those two steps are done. I did a full dose for medium veg with the GH 3 part, some Recycler (bacteria and fungus), and Roots Excelurator. Brought pH down to about 5.5, 750PPM, 68F.

Will update, but if anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears.

750 is kinda high for a 2 week old imo. What do the roots look like?

that's WAY too strong for nutes for plants that size IMO.

i never go above 1.2 EC (600 ppm depending on meter) for my whole grow.

i'd give a 24hr flush of pH'd water, and start back on much lighter nutes.

and pH rising is a good thing. set it at 5.5 and let it go up to 6.1 and then re-adjust

Any suggestions on the initial problems?

On PPMs, that's exactly what I thought when I mixed them, but confirmed they're right in the range of all of the beginner GH feedcharts, and half that of the Expert feedcharts. I know recommendations by the manufacturer are just that, but I've had pretty good luck so far. I mostly watch the plants for what they need, but these initial symptoms have me stumped.

My fix may make things worse, but does anyone have any ideas what caused my initial problems? I'm in learning phase so losing plants isn't a big deal for me right now. My soil grows have me covered.

rkymtnman said:

and pH rising is a good thing. set it at 5.5 and let it go up to 6.1 and then re-adjust

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I know, I use the recycler mostly for cleaning salts, but they supposedly help with pH/nutrient availability a bit too.

i think your tap water is the problem. i'd switch to RO water. 160 ppm is pretty high to start with and then you are adding nutes on top of that.

i buy my RO from walmart in 5 gal jugs. 37 cents/gal. would be worth trying for this grow IMO>

process of elmination:

led? nope
waterfarm? nope
temp/RH? nope
hydroton? nope

water? maybe
nute strength? maybe
root rot? maybe

what do roots look like?

Sorry was gonna get pics of roots but it's lights out and my camera is charging.
Done:

Note: Haha, look at that little ball of water firing up.

Roots look good, white, thick, hanging down into reservoir. The taproot is loaded with small side branches, and then there's a few smaller roots also hanging into the reservoir. All looks well in there.

I noticed a little algae on my seed starter. Will be covering with some foil.

I may go RO if and when I do indoor vegetables. What I may do is get the Hard water micro, and if she asks for extra calcium I'll give it to her.

Also, I was mistaken when I said 750, it's at 700. I was also mistaken in saying the recirculation pump goes off at lights out. Its actually always running.

hard to tell if those roots are stained from your micro or they are brown. keep an eye on them for sure.

TrimothyLeary said:

Sorry was gonna get pics of roots but it's lights out and my camera is charging.
Done:
View attachment 3727250
Note: Haha, look at that little ball of water firing up.

Roots look good, white, thick, hanging down into reservoir. The taproot is loaded with small side branches, and then there's a few smaller roots also hanging into the reservoir. All looks well in there.

I noticed a little algae on my seed starter. Will be covering with some foil.

I may go RO if and when I do indoor vegetables. What I may do is get the Hard water micro, and if she asks for extra calcium I'll give it to her.

Also, I was mistaken when I said 750, it's at 700. I was also mistaken in saying the recirculation pump goes off at lights out. Its actually always running.

Click to expand...

I've used a very similar system. I bought a 5 gallon water bottle for a chiller, the water is filtered. Then I fill it up with filtered water out of the vending machine for .30 a gallon at the grocery store. Or, you can just buy filtered water in the gallon jugs for .50 a gallon. You still have to ph and all that but, you're getting much better water than plain tap. Low ec and should test around ph 7. I agree, start your nutes off slow. Maybe 25-50%. Work your way up as the plant matures. Keep your environment cool, so your water temp don't get to high and cause root rot. Mine was a GH PowerGrower Eco. Same as yours just different shape or whatever. They work well but I don't use it anymore. Just my preference not wanting to monitor PH daily. Good luck bro.

The Roots Excelurator browns the water quite a bit, but most of the discoloration in the photo is from the light and shadows. If anything they have the slightest tinge of tan. No smell to the water, no slime or anything like that.

Since I've already made the corrections, I'm going to stick to them and watch what happens. I've never overnuted a plant before so it would be interesting to see what that looks like.

So quick question, how long should it take for the plant to show damage from the high EC, if it ends up being a problem. So far I've seen accelerated growth, no new damage, and the leaves have flattened out a bit since yesterday, less wavy.

TrimothyLeary said:

The Roots Excelurator browns the water quite a bit, but most of the discoloration in the photo is from the light and shadows. If anything they have the slightest tinge of tan. No smell to the water, no slime or anything like that.

Since I've already made the corrections, I'm going to stick to them and watch what happens. I've never overnuted a plant before so it would be interesting to see what that looks like.

So quick question, how long should it take for the plant to show damage from the high EC, if it ends up being a problem. So far I've seen accelerated growth, no new damage, and the leaves have flattened out a bit since yesterday, less wavy.
View attachment 3727789

Click to expand...

Starting off with less is the conservative way. Referring to nutes. Some genes can take more than others. Some can take a lot. Some strains can't take hardly any at all. I can't remember and count all the times I've been stoned and forgot to do the math. Like when I only need and mix for a half gallon but, didn't do the math and overdosed the half gallon with a dose of nutes meant for a whole gallon. And I've seen what you see. Excellerated growth. As an example and my most recent mistake. I planted in Happy Frog soil which has a rep of being a hot soil. Almost dangerously so, especially to seedlings. In my experience the rep probably fits. Then, early on in the plants life, I got stoned and decided for whatever reason the plant needed to be fed some nutes very early on in the plants life. So I mixed up a batch of feed with full strength nutes and only realized the next day what I had done was wrong. So what did I see? Well the leaves curled under pretty significantly. There was some tip burn and maybe a few yellow leaves. Too much nitro I think. But the plant itself thrived over all. In retrospect I was just over the cusp of poisoning the plant. I would say had I went half nute strength, maybe that would be the ideal strength. Or maybe went another week or two before feedIng at all, perhaps that would have been the conservative route and I am sure the plant would have done well, tho maybe not as well, maybe better. Who knows? Unless a side by side comparison of clones with all other comparables being the same was done. Anyway, that was soil so.... Maybe not a perfect comparison. What you are doing my friend is dialing it in bro. I've never really dialed in a specific strain of genes because I've always tried different strains. I have tho, dialed in my methods overall, to the conservative side for a system that will make my efforts successful and productive every time. I certainly haven't dialed in my methods and genes together for the most productive harvest. That would be more commercial and suited for clones. Anyway bro, there is no perfect answer. Sounds like you're not having any serious issues so far. If you do? Simply ph some tap, change your res and let it rest for a short while. Maybe a day like the other poster before me suggested. Then scale back your nute strength and change the res again. And here's a tip. Whe you are PHing your res daily, if yours is like mine, the ph rose .5 or so every day. Add a little ph down in the drain tube. Cup your clean hand over the top of the drain tube and blow in it. Your lips should only be touching your hands not the tube itself. That may not be safe because of the chemicals. Blowing into it will mix your PH down fast. Then check it several minutes later and add more if necessary. By the end of your grow you should have an idea of how much ph down you need to mix and shouldn't have to do it more than once. Me, my target was like 5.8, but the previous posters target of 5.5 to the low side probably works as well. Whatever works and makes you satisfied with your results is perfect. There is no right way. Only wrong ways which are abundant around here with people who don't know any better. But, so far I've seen mostly quality advice from the other posters in your thread. Mostly. Good luck bro. Keep an eye on it always and it sounds like your doing it mostly right so far. Peace and love for everyone and everybody world wide.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

I've never really dialed in a specific strain of genes because I've always tried different strains.

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me too. i just run around 1.0EC which seems to be acceptable for almost all strains i try. kinda like horseshoes, close is good enough for me.

that's whats great about hydro. if you dont' like what you see, give em a24hr flush with water and you have a blank slate to retry the next day.

how is tap with 110ppm at the 5ppm scale?

ThaMagnificent said:

how is tap with 110ppm at the 5ppm scale?

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That's not bad. Seems like the last time I measured mine was well under 100 ppm. But, I always used the filtered water in hydro. Just being conservative tho, your tap might work fine. I use tap for my hempy bucket passive hydro and soil with no problems.

I got one of those water farms, they work great.
I think your raising ph is from water evaporating, make sure you check your rez a lot.

the gh feeding schedule in my case was way too hot I had deformed leaves in spite of good roots I reduced the ppm to 280 & things straitened out I'm talking total ppm. Including water here is same plant today this is my first waterfarm grow ATTACH=full]3729718[/ATTACH]

Well, just got back from vacation, was gone for a week, and came back to a very healthy, well growing plant. I'll get pics up at lights on.

When we got home and walked in the door, the house was 88F, and I wasn't sure how long our AC had been out. I expected a bunch of dead plants, but somehow they're going nuts. Hopefully they make it until the AC is repaired, which could be another week.

Following a modified GH schedule from GrowWeedEasy website, things are great, and I switch to flower this weekend.

I believe my initial issues may have been a problem of too much light and/or too little nutrient. Backing the light off and feeding more heavily corrected the problems, and she's looking great.