Girls Gone Wild.

RickWhite said:

Thanks for the utterly useless post. You have demonstrated in numerous posts and at great length that the answer is wholly unknown to you in every way. This fact is the crux of all of your posts.

You truly are a brain dead douche bag and I ask that you cease and desist your obvious attempts at disruption of my threads.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

Thanks for the utterly useless post. You have demonstrated in numerous posts and at great length that the answer is wholly unknown to you in every way. This fact is the crux of all of your posts.

You truly are a brain dead douche bag and I ask that you cease and desist your obvious attempts at disruption of my threads.

Click to expand...

Ask all you want.

I already told you the solution to that problem.

figtree said:

If i had a daughter that was an ADULT (18+) then it wouldnt really matter if i would be upset or not. she would be an adult and responsible for her own actions. I could see some disapointment, but an adult is free to do what they want, they are responsible for their own actions.

This is the problem with some. they cant let adults do what they want because they are offended personally, change the channel, dont buy the dvd, dont watch it if it offends you. but it is a free couontry and the ones who are not offended by it should have the freedom to watch if they please. and the others that are offended should recognize the rights of the people that are not, and stop trying to demean, and take it away because of your personal morals.

Again, we have the ability as well as the rights, and choices to change the channel, or not purchase it........ it really is that easy if you dont want to see it.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

It is interesting to me to see the different angles from which people attempt to tackle a question.

Most of the posters above choose to focus on the rights of the individual to make stupid decisions. Stony, obviously a student of old 60s Feminist ideology, included a few of those old saws but essentially responded the same.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

Of all the statements this one stuck out in my mind the most.

I live in constant fear that my 12 year old will have a lapse in judgment and come home and say,"I think I'm pregnant." I'm gonna stock up on RU-486 when she's allowed to date.

I began to write about how many things are wrong with this statement and then realized this was a whole other topic that would jack the thread so I stopped. But I digress.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

The point I wish to encourage people to consider is that while the individual choices and liberties of the girls involved in GGW are valid issues, there are many other questions and a much larger picture. What about the issue of society and how these videos relate to it?

Below is a wiki for social proof. This is a well studied phenomenon that looks at what can be called herd mentality. IllegalSmile mention the media and how effective this is in bringing depravity into the main stream. So, what is the effect of this? Is the efficacy of this technology piping debauchery into the minds of our youth in a way that will influence their choices and their conduct in profound ways? According to the research, the answer is a resounding yes.

Now, I am not suggesting censorship; that discussion is a whole other topic where we get into first amendment rights etc. But, the first thing that ought to be clear is that we can identify and be clear on the existence of a problem without necessarily jumping straight into what we should do about it. Doing that only sets up a false dichotomy.

So, first, we need to be clear that representing debauchery as normal, acceptable, every day conduct does cause negative ramifications. Read the article below and this becomes clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Proof

Short of censorship, what we can do is set standards for acceptable conduct. Not necessarily laws or regulations but social standards. Standards that say that 12 year old girls should never under any circumstances be in situations in which there is no adult supervision where sex would be possible. If you look at where many of these GGW videos are made you see young kids; often under 18 at full out spring break drinking parties. What kind of message does this send when a parent even permits them to go to such a place? And what message is this sending to the friends of the kid who gets to go or the kid who sees the adds on TV? We all know the first thing a kid says is "so and so is going, or so and so gets to do X." That is social proof by the way. When I hear about a 16 year old girl hurt, raped, missing, etc at spring break, the first thing that crosses my mind is what parent allows a 16 year old girl to go to spring break.

Now, I don't mean to lock them in a cage until they are 30. I just mean that just as social proof can be used to teach them bad habits, it can be used to teach them good habits. This is where standards come into play. This is where the message that we as a society chooses to send becomes important. This is often refered to as the "moral fabric" of society and this is an explanation rooting in logic as to why we have a moral fabric and why it must be upheld.

We have a choice, we can all vote for an "anything goes" culture and we raise a nation of low self esteem morons who wind up on GGW which will haunt them for life, or we as a society can uphold standards of decency that will encourage mental growth, self esteem, self respect and responsibility.

Life is not just about looking at everything through a soda straw. We as individuals don't live in an isolated bubble - the things we do and the choices we make all contribute to the larger picture that is the human condition. We all need to put down the soda straw and start seeing the big picture.

Click to expand...

Stoney McFried said:

I agree with you there.And in no way am I suggesting that this should be censored.All I'm saying is, it would be nice to know that these girls were doing this for their own personal enjoyment,and not from some need to get attention.Not saying they are all defective,lonely little girls who need a hug,just saying I'm sure a few of them are,and I'm sure they're going to feel bad and get down on themselves in the future.
Even if my girl was 18, it would still be just absolutely fucking traumatic for me to see her on one of these videos...cuz that's muh baby!

Not really a student of anything.I believe if they are 18, they can do as they like.I also believe prostitution should be completely legal,with health regulations in place.Is that 60's feminist?

While I keep my child far away from sexual situations or places where such situations could occur,I do know that 12 year old girls tend to romanticize sex.Pair that with raging hormones,and just five minutes without parental supervision(because you can't be on top of them all the time)and stupidity could occur.Now, I've educated my daughter in regards to this,and explained to her that even heavy petting can get you pregnant if sperm is introduced to the vaginal opening.I think she''s well equipped to make the right decision.However, I was a 12 year old girl once, too.I know that its hard to stick to your guns sometimes.That's why I said the ru-486 comment,in jest.However, if she were to get pregnant,you're damn right we'd be getting rid of it.In no way is a 12 year old girl physically or emotionally capable of giving birth without serious ramifications,and there is no way I'd allow her life to be ruined.When she does begin dating,depending on her level of maturity,( I've decided possible group dates at 15),I hope she realizes she can come to me and ask me to get her on some birth control.No, I don't want her having sex before she's 18,but just in case,I don't want her to pay for natural sexual curiousity for the rest of her life.

Define debauchery. One man's debauchery is another man's normal. We don't need more laws and regulations as a society to enforce the moral character of our youth-because morals vary from person to person..and it is ultimately up to the parent to teach their own children the values they'd like to instill in them.
Who gets to decide these values and standards to uphold?What if I don't think it's wrong for 18 year old girls to flap their boobs at a camera of their own free will?Are my standards too low?Is my moral character in question, then? My kids know that just because society approves or disapproves of something,it doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong. They know that I will give them my honest opinion on anything they ask me about-and the excuse of "Well, so and so is doing it" doesn't fly. Healthy sexual curiosity is normal,and unless you're actually causing harm to someone, it's not bad to explore,as an ADULT,your sexual power.I'm not going to do the same thing to my kids my well meaning but misguided parents did,and teach them "you're a bad girl if you do this",or any of that crap.Because believe me, I had a hell of a time working through that bullshit,and it stunted me as a sexual woman for a long time. I don't need a set of agreed upon guidelines to raise my children by, thank you. I can only teach my children from my own experience,and I can only try to be a better parent than what I sometimes had. I hope the one thing my girls do learn from me is fierce,unapologetic independence. To not automatically judge by established criteria,but to find out for themselves,and decide then what they believe.To not use "society" as a crutch or a standard to live up to, nor to blame their failures on.
I guess my point is-not all of those girls in these videos came from the same set of circumstances.Sure, some may be doing it for attention,and that's the wrong reason.But I can only hope there are some who are doing it as a genuine celebration of their right to be sexual.

Click to expand...

A great many things today make us all less healthy. They make us less healthy as individuals, as demonstrated by the GGW videos, and they make us less healthy as a society and culture. Offensive rap music that glorifies violence makes us less healthy. Young kids ass' hanging out of their pants makes us less healthy. Materialism makes us less healthy. Changing attitudes about the importance of family and the acceptance of divorce makes us less healthy. Teaching young women not to value their sexuality or demand respect makes us less healthy.

Click to expand...

PadawanBater said:

Who decides this?

Click to expand...

PadawanBater said:

Who decides this?

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

People with wisdom and common sense.

Clearly not you.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

It is very difficult to read your posts. Two spaces after a period and breaking up paragraphs would be helpful.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

The best thing you could do for your self is to read up on something called "moral relativism" and why it is fallacious. The idea that things are generally right for one person and wrong for another just doesn't hold water. Read about it.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

The term debauchery is defined in every dictionary and it doesn't change from person to person. If you want to think philosophically about what types of conduct are good or bad, what you should look at is not what a person's opinion is, but what is the realistic effect of the conduct. As you know, being drunk at spring break and being filmed on GGW is something that could easily come back to haunt a girl in the future. And, a psychological discussion of such conduct and things like self esteem and a host of other issues would be a whole other topic.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

Look at it this way. Suppose there are two young men. One lives a healthy life. He eats healthy, exercises, studies hard and makes wise decisions and saves his money. The other, eats garbage, goes out drinking every night, doesn't study, blows all his money and has no interests save for partying.

Which one of these young men is going to wind up in a good place and which one in a bad place?

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

Well, guess what - everything in life is like that. Everything has a right way and a wrong way. Sure, a little of the bad stuff in moderation makes life interesting - the real trick is knowing how much is OK. You get the idea.

Click to expand...

RickWhite said:

But, these notions that a prostitute is doing what she wants is silly. A prostitute is a horribly damaged person (nearly always a rape or sexual abuse victim) who has no respect for themselves and willing to subject themselves to heinous degradation and self abuse usually because it is the only way they can get money or because they are so devoid of self respect that they feel they have nothing to lose. There are other issues as well - none of them good.





I don't need the government to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own body, so long as I'm not harming any other individuals.Period.I don't need to be "protected from myself". The government would put me in jail for up to 25 years for possession of marijuana in the interest of "protecting me from myself." No thanks.

RickWhite said:

Should this be legal - that is another matter. When we get into that question we have to look at to what extent the Government ought to protect people from themselves and whether or not we can do so effectively and properly. Legality is a whole other topic.

Click to expand...

Smoking as bad or good is completely different from say,deciding whether making out on the first date makes you a slut.Rap music does no actual harm to anyone-it's a creative means of expression.You can't target rap music as glorifying violence without looking back to the time Ozzy Osborne bit the head off of a dove and saying the same thing. Asses hanging out is nothing more than a fashion trend,like bobby socks or mini skirts,and has no effect one way or the other on our society. The acceptance of divorce is one step in the renunciation of the religious bullshit we've been fed regarding what relationships are valid or deviant.What a great day it will be when we finally realize that a piece of paper is no more guarantee of fidelity,respect and love than hopping over a broomstick.That commitment, or lack of it,is an individual choice,and a government sanctioned union is just a way to make it easier to divide up your stuff when you finally can't stand each other any more.That marriage and divorce both are just a means to make a profit for those involved in the orchestration of either.
Teaching women that having a healthy sexual appetite means they're less worthy of respect than one who practices chastity makes us less healthy.Teaching people that there are pre defined roles for each sex that must be obeyed and adhered to makes us less healthy.Narrow thinking makes us narrow. Diversity is the norm,nature gives us examples wherever we look. Lock yourself into one rigid set of parameters,and you stagnate.Those who fail to adapt perish. Those who are quick to place everything into boxes wind up painting themselves into a corner,mentally and emotionally,until the behavior is so ingrained they can't even question it anymore. Feeling morally superior must be very satisfying when you die alone because no one can stand your judgmental ass. The real trick is to know what battles are worth fighting,and what is really worth standing for. And any time one may feel themselves feeling superior to another because of their own set of "standards",they need only realize that they get to be worm food,too.And all those "wise" decisions they made didn't make them any more important to the cosmos than any other random assembly of particles.

RickWhite said:

In the end, the point is, things are not different for different people. Smoking is not good for one and bad for the other based on opinion, nor is proper diet and exercise. One is bad, the others good. The choice to take up knitting or collecting stamps is a neutral preference. most other choices we make in life are good or bad - they either make us more healthy or less healthy.

A great many things today make us all less healthy. They make us less healthy as individuals, as demonstrated by the GGW videos, and they make us less healthy as a society and culture. Offensive rap music that glorifies violence makes us less healthy. Young kids ass' hanging out of their pants makes us less healthy. Materialism makes us less healthy. Changing attitudes about the importance of family and the acceptance of divorce makes us less healthy. Teaching young women not to value their sexuality or demand respect makes us less healthy.

These are not things that change from person to person. That old saw was concocted by people who didn't want to accept that their actions had consequences. Life, like just about everything else, has a whole bunch of wrong ways and very few if not one right way. The trick is to know the difference.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...