God created matter, even the matter from the "big bang" had to have had an origin

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
If the big bang was true...

Then where did the matter come from that the big bang subsisted of?

Obvious logical fallacy.


God created matter,

All you need to do to go to heaven is say "Jesus save me from my sins"

and do your best to live righteously.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
Nature manifests a certain irreducible complexity. The design in nature requires a Designer. God is the creator and designer of all things.
 

Kervork

Well-Known Member
Well, if you've payed any attention to Brane theory you would know how our universe was created.

Matter is energy. The original massive amount of energy was created in a brane collision which then caused a pocket universe to be created and expand rapidly into several of 11 dimensions.

If you dissolve salt into water and then let it evaporate, salt crystals will form. No matter where on the planet you do that, the crystals will allways grow in the same geometric shapes. Why is this? You could say, well it is a result of how the universe operates, or you could say that god made it that way.

If you say that god made it that way, then you must also agree that god made it that way across countless billions of galaxies. Not only that, but since it now appears that there are countless other universes you must say god made it that way or however other way in all those universes too.

Given our rather small place in the cosmos, it is the height of absurdity to think whatever power created the laws that govern the shape of sodium chloride crystals would directly give a shit about us, much less send his only begotten son to save us.

I think the mystery of billions of parallel universes trumps the mystery of the bible. After all, the mystery of the bible is only that people actually believe it.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
In whatever theory you choose to put your faith in, the matter still has to have an origin. Energy is matter.

Where does it originate?

The only answer we can fall back on is creation.

If God spent the time to create us, He certainly would care for us.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
[h=3]Romans 1:20[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
You guys, here me out on this. Every single time you reply to this person it merely encourages her. Please, don't feed OG's ego any more.

She doesn't listen anyways, she merely replies with her own thoughts disregarding everything we say as wrong, nothing will change that. I commend all of you to do just one...simple...thing...

Ignore her.

Don't encourage her, or give her the satisfaction of taking away your time and your thoughts and offering nothing in return.
 

aknight3

Moderator
hi, we all respect your opinion, I am sure of that. This matter (pun intended) is an old can of worms so please tread carefully. Let me tell you this, if you really did love 'jesus christ and god' you would go back to the ORIGINAL scripture written in hebrew and arabaic language, and once translated correctly, it wouldnt say 'jesus christ'...so you should def. find out about that type of stuff because as you know all to well im sure, to praise anyone other than god's son and the savior is blasphemy, and by saying his name wrong, by technical definition, again is blasphemy. same with 'god' go translate yahuhah and see what you get. good luck on your journey and keep it clean everyone :):peace:
 

Kervork

Well-Known Member
Thats the nature of religion. Disregard the evidence, ignore logic, rely on your own magical thinking. Sacrifice a few goats, it will all be ok.

Pray to the telepathic zombie jesus, drink his blood, take a bit out of his arm so you too will become an ever living zombie.

Hint, hint. God didn't make the energy because there is something beyond our universe. It ain't a 600 foot tall jesus either.
 

OldGrowth420

Well-Known Member
You are disregarding the evidence of creation all around you, a Fibonacci sequence, a redwood tree, a beautiful woman, a bird in flight.. All of these things scream CREATION
 

automated

Active Member
I wonder what god used to create and design all that.

Does he have a secret lab somewhere ?
A workforce of advanced CAD designers perhaps ?


Anyway, if he did made the big bang go boom and needed matter for it ... wouldn't he just snap in his methaporycal fingers and make some appear ?


And btw, since when is god involved in the big bang ? I thought he had just created earth.

If we're getting jehova aliens I'm gonna be pissed.
 

heathen

Member
You are reading a history book, written by Moses (old Testament) and some of Jesus' buddies (New testament but doesnt include books from all 12 Apostles or Mary Magdalene's book either).

Ok so you think sheepherders in the middle east figured out the universe 2000 years ago.

They barely have plumbing figured out in the 21st century.

So god always was and always will be. Nope god(s) were created in Egypt and Mesopotamia and around the world by people.

It was a tool to maintain the rule of the people by divine right of Kings.

[SIZE=-1]During the ancient times, religion played an important part in the lives of the people and many different types of gods were worshipped. Why was there the need of a god? What was the importance of a god?

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]For the Aryans of ancient India, they worshipped gods of Nature around them. This was because they could not understand or control the elements and hence, invested them with divinity and personified them For instance, Indra was the war god (thunder and rainmaker) and the most honoured of the Aryan gods. Surya was the sun god. Agni was the fire god; the power to heal, save, defend or destroy. It was a very important god, as fire was a very important element used in the sacrifice of animals. Marriages were also solemnised in the presence of fire. Male gods were dominant. There were 33 gods where there was no hierarchy. The Aryans did not ignore the unity of god; they did believe in a supreme god where all others were manifestations.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Mayas believed that nature was closely related to the world of the supernatural. Thus, they worshipped many different types of gods that were too, like those of the Indians, related to nature. One example was the sun god called Kinich Ahau. They also believed that they could communicate with the gods who dwell in heaven through prayers, visions, and sacrifice. Another god of nature that they worshipped was the World Tree, which they believed was a giant blue-green tree that connected the world of humans to the supernatural world of spirits and gods. Gods were portrayed as men, women, animals, or creatures that looked like either a person or an animal. Each day, month and number was associated with a god. For example, the number 4 was associated with the sun god and the number 10 was associated with the death god. Which number do you think the rain god represented? (Answer:13)

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Greek gods were important too in ancient Greece. Every god and goddess had his or her own religious festival, and there were more than sixty festival days each year. The people offered sacrifices on the altar outside the Parthenon, the largest and most splendid of the temples, before going in to pray to the goddess Athena, the patron goddess of the city. Private devotion was important, as well. Houses had their own altars where families could place offerings to the gods, hoping to receive blessings or avert punishments. Athenians also asked their gods and goddesses for advice about the future through oracles, or fortune-tellers.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Egyptians worshipped a number of gods and goddesses, most of which were believed to possess a human form, although some had the heads of birds and animals. There was Ra, the sun-god, who was believed to journey across the sky each day with the sun in a boat. There was Osiris, ruler of the underworld, who was said to judge all dead people, to determine if they would be allowed to enter the afterlife. There was the goddess Isis, wife of Osiris and mistress of magic and Horus, son of Isis and Osiris, and god of the sky. Horus was often pictured with the head of a falcon, and it was believed that he had the power to enter into the very body and soul of the pharaoh. The pharaoh was therefore a very unique being - a link between god and man. Since he was thought to communicate with the other gods, the pharaoh also served as the high priest who officiated at major religious festivals.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The Sumers worshipped many gods as well. The most important god was Anu, the father of all gods and the lord of heaven. There was also Enlil, the god of earth and Enki, the god of the waters. Other gods of nature included gods of the rivers and mountains, sun, moon, winds, storms, and planets. There were also personal gods. Sumerians believed that it was their duty to feed and shelter their gods and thus, built numerous temples for the gods to live in.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The ancient Chinese too, believed in gods of nature - in mountains, rivers, forests, trees and rocks. (Why do you think gods were associated with nature in the past? Hint: Consider how the occupation of most of the people in the past. How did they obtain their food?) They also worshipped the souls of dead rulers for protection and blessings.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Even today, some Chinese still pray to the souls of the dead, especially to their ancestors for the same reasons as in the past: protection and blessing. Most Chinese still pray to certain gods of nature such as the earth god and Chu Jung, god of fire. In addition, the Chinese believe in other gods too, such as the god of wealth, the goddess of mercy and the god of war. The god of wealth is an important god to the present-day Chinese, especially to Chinese merchants and businessmen, as they believe that praying to the god of wealth would enable their businesses to prosper and their wealth to increase!

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Gods are still worshipped in other parts of the world today as well. For instance, Indians today, who believe in Hinduism, a religion which will be covered in the next article, still worship Hindu gods such as Brahma the Creator, Shiva the Destroyer and Vishnu the Preserver[/SIZE]
 

Slipon

Well-Known Member
If the big bang was true...

Then where did the matter come from that the big bang subsisted of?

Obvious logical fallacy.


God created matter,

All you need to do to go to heaven is say "Jesus save me from my sins"

and do your best to live righteously.

but what is God ?

maybe ist the matter its self
 

Kervork

Well-Known Member
I am the omnipotent god. I will send my only son to save you all. However in my infinite wisdom, I will send him out to the desert in bum fuck nowhere where it will take approximately 100 years for his words to finally be written down and then another 400 years to spread to 1/3'rd of the population. I will also leave absolutely no physical proof that might help convince people.

Oh, also, I will allow my son to travel faster than the speed of light through space so he can save a billion other planets too, lest their inhabitants wind up in hell.

So, apparently the christian god can create a billion galaxies yet is unable to properly notify everyone on the planet how to avoid being eternally punished after death.

If something which could create the multiverse wanted to give us a message you can be damn sure we would recieve it. Hence that suggests that either there is nothing there or it doesn't give a shit about us.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
You are disregarding the evidence of creation all around you, a Fibonacci sequence, a redwood tree, a beautiful woman, a bird in flight.. All of these things scream CREATION
They may, to a childish, uninformed mind. I see your mentality in small children often: it's raining 'cause jesus is crying, it's thundering because angels are bowling, etc.. You may not know better, but we do. None of the things you list require a creator, no matter how desperately you'd like them to. All you do is regurgitate creationist dogma that you don't even understand, we are familiar with it and it is boring. Your positing a god as an explanation for anything only confounds the problem, it provides no real answers. Positing a god to explain complexity, we are now left with who or what created god, then who or what created that god into infinite regress. I'm sure your answer will be that god is axiomatic, he has simply always existed. The problem with that is your opponents can state the same, matter and energy have also always existed, eliminating the need for your god. Why not read some fifth grade science books? They shouldn't shake your faith too badly. Then you can come back and start to converse with the adults...
 

Slipon

Well-Known Member
I am the omnipotent god. I will send my only son to save you all. However in my infinite wisdom, I will send him out to the desert in bum fuck nowhere where it will take approximately 100 years for his words to finally be written down and then another 400 years to spread to 1/3'rd of the population. I will also leave absolutely no physical proof that might help convince people.

Oh, also, I will allow my son to travel faster than the speed of light through space so he can save a billion other planets too, lest their inhabitants wind up in hell.

So, apparently the christian god can create a billion galaxies yet is unable to properly notify everyone on the planet how to avoid being eternally punished after death.

If something which could create the multiverse wanted to give us a message you can be damn sure we would recieve it. Hence that suggests that either there is nothing there or it doesn't give a shit about us.

yep and that is just christianity, rest is of course much more enlightened ......
 
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