Got a slap over the back of me ed this morning . . . . find out why!!

greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
@Rrog
I don't do any more inspections, now that I have my preferred methods under wraps.
But that being said i'm not a STRICT no-till, I re-amend and re-aerate every yr, or every three runs or so.
And I use cover crops too, great stuff.
heres a couple pics, theres a big ass legume that I have it's grandchildren (via seed-pods) in my current containers.
100_0714.JPG 100_0715.JPG
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
But if microbial activity stopped during dry weather i'd assume you'd see that in nature, and you don't.
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Oh but you do. However I think we're close to the same page. "Wet" soil is a no-go, obviously. Damp (I measure this with precise Tensiometers) and things really take off, as you exactly said.

When we introduce slightly dryer cycles, things slow a bit during the dry period. Anyway, one of the nearly universal conclusions of those blumat users was the surprising increase in growth when you dial that in, so I'm not alone on this perspective. As I said, I think we're basically on the same page, based on your last post there.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I also re-amend constantly. I use sumps under the drippers to drip it in. If I need a more vigorous amending, I may drench it, or a light top-till.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
Oh but you do. However I think we're close to the same page. "Wet" soil is a no-go, obviously. Damp (I measure this with precise Tensiometers) and things really take off, as you exactly said.

When we introduce slightly dryer cycles, things slow a bit during the dry period. Anyway, one of the nearly universal conclusions of those blumat users was the surprising increase in growth when you dial that in, so I'm not alone on this perspective. As I said, I think we're basically on the same page, based on your last post there.
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Hmm, not so sure about seeing the effects of drier weather, I mean we both obviously agree that H2O is indeed needed for photosynthesis, but i'm just saying there MUST be a whoooooole family/genus/species/whatever that keeps the soilweb alive and well under dry conditions.
If I go and grab some soil in my forest right now (well ok it did rain this last two days, but its been dry AS hell the past whole winter, but the forest has been green as green can be, for the whole time, and I KNOW for a fact the soil is dry as a bone, I mean I incorporate three handfuls of native soil in each container, and its dry.
BUT the ferns, and all the other plants are green.
So what the heck?
I have a pretty good grasp on soil biology but that doesn't jive with the other logic we've been taught.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
When it's optimally moist, all microbes are out of stasis and working. As it dries, less water = less microbial activity. Not all gone, just some degree less active. Not like a light switch ON / OFF.

Plants with deep roots don't much care about the top 12" of soil, because deep roots in the forest supply them with the water. It's just the microbes in the upper surface layer that go dormant
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
When it's optimally moist, all microbes are out of stasis and working. As it dries, less water = less microbial activity. Not all gone, just some degree less active. Not like a light switch ON / OFF.

Plants with deep roots don't much care about the top 12" of soil, because deep roots in the forest supply them with the water. It's just the microbes in the upper surface layer that go dormant
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I think i simply just don't know enough about indigenous microbes, to be honest. Not to mention i don't own a microscope so everything i say is based on theory and conjecture..
been tempted to buy me a fancy scope
 
Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
Mai no no monsieur . . . . I don't mean barron.
But I guarantee there will be more microbe action in a root zone at 30% moisture than at 50% moisture!!! MORE OXYGEN!! ;)

Rrog said:
Rampant biology in dryer soil? Really? Really? You're thinking the microbes like it dry? Like fish do? Lol
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Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh so, as we do not have bottomless grow pots yet, perhaps we should be taking care of every inch of our medium . . . . . Including the first inch . . . . . no???


Rrog said:
When it's optimally moist, all microbes are out of stasis and working. As it dries, less water = less microbial activity. Not all gone, just some degree less active. Not like a light switch ON / OFF.

Plants with deep roots don't much care about the top 12" of soil, because deep roots in the forest supply them with the water. It's just the microbes in the upper surface layer that go dormant
Click to expand...
 
Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
Ahhhh hence mulching to rise it up to the top a bit, and to retain moisture . . . .

Rrog said:
When it's optimally moist, all microbes are out of stasis and working. As it dries, less water = less microbial activity. Not all gone, just some degree less active. Not like a light switch ON / OFF.

Plants with deep roots don't much care about the top 12" of soil, because deep roots in the forest supply them with the water. It's just the microbes in the upper surface layer that go dormant
Click to expand...
 
Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
Indeed, a good biology will get a healthy plant through a drought . . . . . so if the biology is excellent, it will thrive alive in drier soil (less then 40% moisture imho, but no where near baron!)

All I know is my plants look at their most vigorous just before watering!!! And I let them drrrryyyyyyy!!

Rrog said:
Oh but you do. However I think we're close to the same page. "Wet" soil is a no-go, obviously. Damp (I measure this with precise Tensiometers) and things really take off, as you exactly said.

When we introduce slightly dryer cycles, things slow a bit during the dry period. Anyway, one of the nearly universal conclusions of those blumat users was the surprising increase in growth when you dial that in, so I'm not alone on this perspective. As I said, I think we're basically on the same page, based on your last post there.
Click to expand...
 
A

anzohaze

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
regarding watering, I'll refer to the old Blumat threads. FWIW, those using the Blumat (continuous moisture level) found better results. I certainly did. I theorize that dried soil = dormant microbes. Dormant microbes aren't doing anything.

I also don't inspect root ball, since I'm not wanting to disturb the beautiful microbial network. I simply re-plant right next to the root ball. If I can't plant right away, I use a clover cover crop. The roots of the clover will keep the soil microbial network active.
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What size pots do you run. I Have Been Looking Into blAt and want to get some but not sure nine need the xl ones or not. I run 15 gal smart Pots
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Semper.Fi said:
_ ahhh ooooo now then, who with?
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toi mon ami

anzohaze said:
What size pots do you run. I Have Been Looking Into blAt and want to get some but not sure nine need the xl ones or not. I run 15 gal smart Pots
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I have been running 15 gallon fabric Geopots. Next round I'm going to 25 gallon. In either case, you defo want the XL carrots. Feel free to ask anything at all about this system and I'll at least lend an opinion. I highly recommend them
 
Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
It's my understanding that our girl's root zones benefit form aerobic and anaerobic biology.

The anaerobic biology is at it's height, decaying matter, when it's damp . . . . . the aerobic biology gets to work on the nutrient the anaerobic biology have left behind when oxygen levels increase . . . a drier soil!!


What do you think ?????
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I disagree with your general assertion that dry soil, or drying the soil is beneficial. Experienced growers that have done both nearly universally experience better growth.

I'm not growing in mud. Perhaps you're thinking that. I have fabric pots that don't drip, so no excess water
 
A

anzohaze

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
toi mon ami



I have been running 15 gallon fabric Geopots. Next round I'm going to 25 gallon. In either case, you defo want the XL carrots. Feel free to ask anything at all about this system and I'll at least lend an opinion. I highly recommend them
Click to expand...
sweet thanks man I might pm you when I buy them. How many do you have per pot
 
Semper.Fi

Semper.Fi

Well-Known Member
Yeah I back peddle there a little, I have been stating through out, I do not mean barron bone dry soil, everything stops then . . . . (though a good biology will pre-long a plant in drought)

My dry soil, the soil I water at will be in the region of 20 to 30% moisture in Veg and 30 to 40% moisture in flower . . . . . . I have no way of testing this, but when I lift, the weights I feel allow me to generalize with the moisture levels. if a pot weighs 80% less than when it's saturated, I water it. If it's 60% lighter (40% moisture remining) in flower I water, u get me?


SAYING THAT . . . .. I've had really really great plants, in the end, that have bounced back incredibly to be some of my best grows when they have suffered accidental wilt from no water !!!



Rrog said:
I disagree with your general assertion that dry soil, or drying the soil is beneficial. Experienced growers that have done both nearly universally experience better growth.
Click to expand...
 
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