Greengenes Apache AT600 Garden- Blackberry Kush

Hiya GG. Forget the arrows bro. I'm with Scotch on this. Toss the IG in the middle and screw the dividers. With airflow being an issue the dividers are just not practical for you. Is it a true side by side? No but who gives a shit. You're still going to see differences in plant development with this setup. Speaking from experience I've seen where the HPS plants will bend towards the IG since it is broad spectrum. Weights were similar on both sides but the buds on the IG side were much frostier and oilier. I speak for a lot of us who enjoy watching your gardens and appreciate your taking the time to share your efforts here. Pickup the weight throughout the entire area and document what develops. Those that can't appreciate your work will usually find a way to criticize your conclusions and results as it doesn't fit their notions.
 
Lol, here, il help you out, you got 500 grams, lets call it 18ozs, the guy that gave you the cuts averaged 1.25-1.5, lets split it and call it 22 ozs, I think you said your power was .31kwh, for simple math lets say you pay .30kwh and your 600 pulls just 600 watts ant the 1000 pulls just 1000 watts, I know they pull a little more but for simple math this will work, your apache 600 costs $2.16 a day to run, $64.80 a month, $129.60 a 8 week cycle yielding your 18ozs, the 1000 hid costs $3.60 a day, $108 a month, $216 a 8 week cycle and yielded the other guy 22 ozs, now the led saved you $86.40 over the course of the 8 week cycle, nice, but the 1000 yielded 4ozs more, nicer, lets say you are a selling your legal bud for $200oz for "meds", that is $3600 for the led bud and $4400 for the hid bud for a difference of $800-$86.40 that the led saved you in power you end up with $713.60 more per cycle by using a 1000 hid vs a 600 apache. Now I get it, 1000s run hotter so you may need an a/c so lets add $100 a month for a/c, thats a lot of a/c for 1 light but whatever, that drops your profit from 713.60 to 513.60. So, with your Apache 600 you lost $513.60 in profits from yield and spent $1900 more for the Apache that you will "upgrade" every couple years. Do you claim the money you make with your "legal" grow on your taxes and deduct your power, nutes, equipment, time, and the room in your house? Does your homeowners ins cover your house if it burns to the ground and they find your grow room? Iv often wondered these things with you "legal" growers but iv never asked.
 
JBone you're missing other aspects of the equation. Spectral shift and PPF depreciation are a fact with HID. The reason most people are looking to other technologies to replace is HID is that they are not only energy inefficient but the require lamp replacements at 25% of their rated life and they are not broad spectrum. An HPS lamp lacks UV-B so the plants natural instinct to defend itself by producing more trichomes to defend the flowers from these spectrums does not occur to the degree it does with broad spectrum lamps.

I don't see any reason to criticize his efforts. I would much rather encourage guys like GG and mfg's who have high priced equipment to throw into these gardens and let the results speak for themselves. Plants don't care how much you spend on your gear. They are going to produce to the best of their ability based on the conditions you give them. If the plant response is improved market demand for these products is increased and prices will go down. And when that day comes I bet the line to buy that gear will form behind JBones.
 
chazbolin said:
JBone you're missing other aspects of the equation. Spectral shift and PPF depreciation are a fact with HID. The reason most people are looking to other technologies to replace is HID is that they are not only energy inefficient but the require lamp replacements at 25% of their rated life and they are not broad spectrum. An HPS lamp lacks UV-B so the plants natural instinct to defend itself by producing more trichomes to defend the flowers from these spectrums does not occur to the degree it does with broad spectrum lamps.

I don't see any reason to criticize his efforts. I would much rather encourage guys like GG and mfg's who have high priced equipment to throw into these gardens and let the results speak for themselves. Plants don't care how much you spend on your gear. They are going to produce to the best of their ability based on the conditions you give them. If the plant response is improved market demand for these products is increased and prices will go down. And when that day comes I bet the line to buy that gear will form behind JBones.
Click to expand...
ok, good points, I haven't overlooked them at all, I replace 2 bulbs a year, led guys "upgrade" their entire light every couple years, led produces more trichs,i agree, does it sell for more because you take 1 less rip off the bubbler? It doesn't sell for any more in any state I've been to. Prices will come down, I agree, but why would I pay more for a light that produces less negating the power savings? I also agree that when prices come down I will own leds, not because of the price but because by that time they will be a better choice, but that isn't now, there's a bunch of grows on this forum that show that, his included. I wasn't criticizing his grow, I complimented it, 500 grams from a 600 is a respectable grow, well done, but it's not comparable to the 1000 he keeps comparing it to, those are his numbers I used up there, not mine, and after power usage and yield he lost money and ended up with a light that costs $1900 more. If people would just say leds are great lights and quit comparing them to hid there would be no argument. Watt for watt led is a better choice in a conventional grow.
 
I like how you compare my first run with the best he's ever down with it. Better led bud is worth more than good hps bud.

Led's are a long term investment, your totally missing the point if you think it stops there.

at600=$2K...discount codes always available.
monthly savings=100(lighting and cooling)=1200over a year. Plus quality gain...then the next year its the same thing and after than too with no additional cost to me. And actually 2+ years after that too, but lets say I upgrades after 3 years. Savings and improvements have been made already and I'm in the green. I don't sell or donate or buy bud but I know what the amount I use is worth.

I honestly keep all my weed theses days. Bake 90% of it...edible fein right here. Or hash it one method or an other. Weight doesn't go that far once condensed down. Nor do I even have much weight to give away even before condensing...503g isn't that much as you say. I am the guy always sharing all his herb...when someone says can I get a sack, and I just hand them a handful and say were good. Growing is my medicine more than the actual end product is. It is what allows me to relax and focus. And a passion that work in the real world doesn't fill. I have a great job that I have no need to go into the illegal market.

But if you were to go the club route and "donate" your herb your lucky to get 28 for the best...25 is the standard but good 21 if they feel you'll take it. 32 was occasionally happening when cookies first popped up a few years ago.
You can not claim any deductions only the profits when it comes to this industry. When it comes to the feds, all activities with cannabis are illegal, which is what I assume your comments are alluding to. But the IRS has thought of everything isn't here for the activities...just their cut of what ever it is(just claiming things correctly is the biggest issue). If you choose to claim anything it would be on line 21 form 1040...where you can claim "illegal activities"and this line has been there for years. Whether they decide to come after you and ask more about your claims is up to how they feel, but if you do everything to the tee, they can only suggest to a different agency what is going on. That is the only way to do such a thing until recent movements of the states and banks. Neither have I had to deal with because I keep it all. Even the big gardens I have been apart of had shit tons of member and when everyone gets their share it's gone in a flash. And in the biggest gore I was apart of we had legal documents form the county showing us as a legal non-dispensing collective garden. We had sherif walk throughs and check ups. That is called fully compliant my friend. But I am past that point in my life(which I did by the books) and only grow for myself and roommate(who is a patient as well with the same rights and privileges as I have).
 
First damn GG thats a horrible start to anyones week, hope that get gets resolved! Second I give you a lot credit for going back n forth defending/ explaining your use of led, whichever it is I would never deal with someone jumping in on my thread to bicker like this a talk show forum lmao "F" that noise... This forum to me at least is to help /inform other growers and learn ...Looking forward to your grow no matter what you decide to do with YOUR GROW! I have tried it ALLLLLL with the exception of apache...you look back into all my threads/posts since 2011 and I've used multiple 1000 watt hps/600 watt hps, led after led from various companies that I felt were worth the effort to try, price considered. No offense to apache bc I'm sure that day will come when I'm ready lol. But now using 860 watt cmh.... My point is, without high jacking your thread for a personal rant (sorry i had too), I know for a fact everything is worth trying because I have seen good results no matter what if you know what your doing! And for the sake of "argument" with led price not being worth it I say this....Any unit I didn't like or just wanted to upgrade too I would sell my used led units and make back a great portion of the upfront costs back anyway! Try selling a 1000 watt set up and get back even half your cost..won't mention any names hmmmm...but it doesn't work out in your favor bc its "old tech" people don't like to pay much for old hid equipment...hid still performs very well that I also know personally and have seen from great growers I know that don't even document there shit...but fact is just bc you have that 1000 watt power blasting , if you don't know how to grow your numbers will be low ;) Sorry again GG I just read through a lot and i got offended and its not even my thread hahaha....Rant over :joint: Peace
 
Thanks man...I guess that is what insurance is for. My lady was rear ended 1 month ago so we just had to buy a new car like 2 weeks ago...I'm sure our insurance is loving us this period. Neither of it our fault might I add.

I like your story and good stories like such are always welcome on my threads.

I know there is an amazing side by side about to go down with apache's and hps in a different garden that no one(not even me) will see till the end probably. I have no officiation with it, it's in colorado. But it is going to be great and if you have basic cable, you will see it one day. It's supposed to be separate 4x12 area's each with 3 lights over them. One 4x12 will be 3 1000w hps. The other 4x12 will be 3 AT600's, an R2, R1, and RB. That is all I know of it basically.

And my grow will be what it will be. I have a few hours to decide still, haha. But seriously they will get flipped very soon.
 
Surprisingly I'm not too upset about the car thing...ya, a total bummer don't get me wrong, but at least it validate the ridiculous premium I pay for car insurance. Should get taken care of fairly smoothly.


Anyway to brighten my day my buddies at monster gardens hooked it up...got a solis tek for $199. I know there has been some shit going on with ST, as hyroot mention, I also heard it's because they switch factories, and now not as good. But on that note, galaxy is made in slois's old factory(the good version factory I guess).
But either way it has a 5 year warranty as long as it's not catastrophic and causes more damage than just dead ballast I'm covered. I will be ruing 240v which electronics usually run more efficiently on than 120v.
Remember it was the #1 ballast on growers house test.

Raptor and fresh hortilux are in route. Literally just got the tracking number while writing this and it will be here tomorrow so I will hold off the full update till then.


Interesting thing on voltage and component efficiency...my at200 pulls [email protected] only 148w@240v. I was playing with it because I figured out how to fuck with the output by adjusting the current. Originally my pro to was pulling 213w@120v and [email protected] I dialed it down to what the production model is supposed to be at(~170w). Since there is two drivers I used a wattage meter to figure out the total I needed to drop the wattage, and then cut it in 2 and adjusted each driver till it was right.
But was just interesting how the voltage makes the drivers and everything run more efficiently.

And on that note...scotch if you ever wanted to dial your light up it's not hard at all and I even talked to robert about what I was doing and he never said anything as if I was doing something wrong or bad. Not that I would suggest you tell them anything if something were to go wrong, but there chips can handle much more than the drivers will put out and my 200 was running topped out and was fine temp wise. So just a thought for the guys trying to push/maximize coverage. It's just not designed to spread the light too much more so the 170w that it's set at is the best point efficiency and power. Kind of like the point of diminishing return for input to output.
 
Brother I was in the parking lot killing time waiting to go in to work when I read about your car and about shit- wtf? people dont dick around over there huh?! I hope it works itself out.

Thanks for the heads up about the 240V, I am a little shady on whether or not I have it around here... yea I know the big ass 3-prong plugs... but what about getting it to our rooms? if you're talking about dropping ~20w off one light, sign me up. Both my setups have their own breaker/wiring.

I wouldn't mind tinkering around, wonder what kind of digits we could get maxing em out and running those 50*s :shock: of course Im sure they stuck with the most efficient option for intensity/draw/lenses/temps and all, but if we could keep the Tj low enough, wouldn't hurt anything....? Then to be able to mix up the 50*s... makes yah wonder.... Are the drivers dimmable how are you actually adjusting the current? I just get shaky thinking about cracking open that tank-of-a-ight haha

And btw, I felt like a fool wasting my "rep" on yah after reading "Why You Grow," man we need to set down and toke. Probably the best definition of Growing hands down, it is the Medicine. Good to hear Im not the only one handing out free weed... :hug:

btw, have some Jilly en route! be SAFE friend!
 
Ya. Could also be that it's a 120 only wattage meter, but I have the x plugs on my light controller so I can plug it into 240v...so maybe there is a chance that it's not reading it perfectly. But then again when you look at driver specs they are clearly more efficient at 240v.
In the AT's there is adjustments for both the current and the voltage...but because it's in constant current you just need to turn the current screw. Super easy to open, just the top 8 screws. and it pops right off...the drivers or mounted on the top piece, and there is just a couple wires connecting the bottom half to the drivers and top half.

Not that you need to adjust it, but it can be done if your feeling a need or experimental one day.
 
Damn bro, sorry to hear about the car! fucking savages...

Interesting about the voltages on the 200. Don't think I'll ever play around with it but good to know anyway. I do want to get a hold of the 50 degree lenses. Would come in handy for when I can't raise the lights any higher and they girls won't stop stretching. Kinda like right now. Jeez, wait til you see my next update. Shit got out of control super fast.
 
That's exactly how I feel about the lenses. I have all 50's on my at600 right now because I need to drop it low. Still getting 1000 center and 500-600 out plants @24" so mission accomplished. Sound like we both have some great updates in the works. My lights go on at 8 tonight for day 1.
 
Solis tek ballast=satndard plugs...raptor hood=hydrofarms plugs. I knew that and meant to get an adapter when I picked up the ballast but forgot. So using the cap hood for tonight, but day one has begun. 6 per light with a divider. at600 and 1000hps. Just more pruning this way but should work fine. If I need to expand, I will, but for now that is the plan.
I will get a new thread up and going once I get the raptor up and working.
 
I want to keep my Blue Dream thread as much about just that grow as possible, but I had to share this with you guys so this seems like a good place.

Double ended bulbs that can run on any ballast and voltage...

I thought the 400v had a lot to do with the DE's longevity???...so I wonder if these have the same or close to it long life span(lumen maintenance)

Anyways, still a cool setup with par numbers better than horizontal mogul bases. I wonder what the footprint/spread is like.

[video=youtube;Hp7t58Toyfw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp7t58Toyfw[/video]
 
Greengenes707 said:
I want to keep my Blue Dream thread as much about just that grow as possible, but I had to share this with you guys so this seems like a good place.

Double ended bulbs that can run on any ballast and voltage...

I thought the 400v had a lot to do with the DE's longevity???...so I wonder if these have the same or close to it long life span(lumen maintenance)

Anyways, still a cool setup with par numbers better than horizontal mogul bases. I wonder what the footprint/spread is like.

[video=youtube;Hp7t58Toyfw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp7t58Toyfw[/video]
Click to expand...
Im very curious as well to the longevity aspect of that bulb set up compared to the gavitas....also curious about the spread, but the gavita reflectors are even smaller than 18x18" and they still put out a spread of about 5x5 from 36" away with good par readings , so I would assume these do as well...I had my eye on them before but the rep was confused at the time of they can be ran on normal digi ballasts so glad to see they cleared that up
 
Growers house actually test the same AC hood, but a gavita ballast/phillips bulb in it and it's the best of all the DE reflectors/systems.
 
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