Growing Without Mains Elec.. Generator or watt??

easy using deep cycle 12v batterys

get a couple or three 10v panels hook corrct will produce 30v @ 200mah depends on cells you buy. you can also use broken cells, just because they are broke dont mean they wont work. and using diffent voltage panels will make it more efficant.

2 pumps and 1 res and a timer ( aa batterytypes)

one pump will be used too draw water+nuets from res too outside grow, a second air pump will cut in an hour before feeding too oxygenate water and nuet mix. grow indica for its shorter growing season and plant mid may early june in uk.

being small like lowryder they less likely too be seen and wont require much looking after. maybe check and top up res every week or so.

what you want too do is too much a risk, you have too have a jcb in too dig that hole and place container. then cover it and rot proof it. you need an entrance an anything looking a little outta place will have the skyshark (police heli) on your case. you realy need too look at all possible outcomes.

Tamzi

Haven't quite decided if this is dumb or not, but if you are putting an ISO container in the ground, can't you make holes in the top to let light in... that way you get all the light you need and you can use the solar panels to power the pumps and fans. The lights seem to be the killer for your costs. Truth be told you could spend about $50,000 on a PV system to sustain that kind of usage and for a genny you would save in the short-run but over the course of just a single grow you have dumped 9 gals of fuel a day and an oil change maybe 2x a week. Now certainly you will be "sharing" your product with paying friends, but I would rather spend about $2000-$4000 to convert the bunker into a greenhouse and pocket more of the profits. Maybe use a heatsink system (or just plain, foamboard insulation) to keep the temp up.

Just some ideas, cuz I am a true believer in the more natural solutions to things. I am glad you showed an interest in growing off-grid!

IF you have the funds- go completely solar it is getting more efficient all the time. Another possibility since you said you do have rain and possibly may have access to a river or something similar would be hydro electricity. You could reuse the rain that you collect in a fully automated system.... Lorenzo and I have been passing off ideas to each other for a couple months for a fully autonomous hydro/aero setup controlled via computer- he is much closer than I am to realizing it, but it is possible. Diesel/propane generators just won't be cost efficient on the short or long term. Hydro/Solar/Wind is VERY long term cost efficient, but if you have the money it will save you TONS over the long term.

As far as the internals of the operation such as climate control/odor control/lighting/growing medium/nutrients and such that is all easy and can be replicated with slight modifications for the circumstances.



-potlike

In humboldt county in northern california there are plenty of HUGE grows running on generators. Their biggest problem is pollution from spilled fuel. I don't know how they do it but I'm sure with a little googleing you could figure it out.

Look into a Lister diesel engine. They have been the same for the last 100 years almost. Very efficent, quiet etc.

ezystevie

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Hey LA9...

Thanks for postin, but the risks are very minimal, thats the reason y I wanna put the op in the middle of nowhere. It will be smell free, noise free and wont cause any spikes in the electricity. so there goes the main risks of gettin caught, so cant see ya point there. I aint doin this to be a smart ass, I'm doin it this way to eliminate as much risk as poss. Its ezy to say dont bother, but I dare say thats the POV of people who cant be arsed to go to the trouble of not to gettin caught.
The complication aint so bad. Provided I can get a reliable, relatively efficient elec supply, it will be the perfect set up.

Thanks anyways LA9.....

Click to expand...

Guess I'll explain it in a little further detail. First off you say it's not complicated but we are on the third page and still aren't any closer to a solution, Also by complicated I also mean the more things you add to the mix, like you are out in the middle of nowhere and put up $50,000 worth of solar electricity ? Someone stumbles across it, they are going to investigate it because it doesn't make sense. A bank of solar panels in the forest and no house or anything ? Police helicopter flies over and they are going to get curious also. Same with generators, some one starts seeing a pattern of you going to the middle of nowhere with gas all the time, it will draw suspicion or even if someone stumbles across it again, herre is a generator in the middle of nowhere and I don't see it powering anything, people will start looking around. Just because you are in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean there aren't going to be a set of eyes somewhere watching. Plus running a generator and not sticking around to babysit it or even running a power cable and an animal gnaws thru it, chances are you will start a fire.

Complicated means the more things you have to solve a problem is the more things you have that will go wrong.

One last thing, not trying to be a smarta$$, but you sound way too over confident, that is a sure sign that this is never going to work. You keep on saying it's the perfect setup, the Titanic was the perfect boat, they built it so there wasn't any risks and were sure there wouldn't be any problems and we know how that turned out.

Hey Guys...

Thanks for all the comments. Even the guyz who recon its a none starter, its good 2 get both sides of the debate...

I'll reply to the posts in a few mins, I gotta fix ma dinner 1sxt, but wanna share these links with ya. I knew my idea wasn't dumb, its been done b4, VERY effectively. The as you'll read via the link, the guyz only got caught coz of a fire near by, and a fireman got suss....
Huge drug farm found under the ground| News | This is London

Damn, it feels good to be proved rite.

heres another link which had me scratchin ma head too....

YouTube - Concrete Canvas Shelters

Ezzzzy

oh, and sum1 one day didn't mind goin through sum 'complications' to produce an indoor growin environment..... and look how thats caught on )))

lights are your biggest power consumers by a long shot. you might be able to power them with solar or wind or water power, but the setup cost is pretty high. solar panels can't have shadows on them, and must get all the full direct sun light they can. less sun light means more panels are needed to keep the batteries charged and the system running.

hydroponic isn't necessary. if you do hydro you'll need at least 1 water pump and an air pump. with soil you could do just a top drip method with a single pump. I'm thinking about it more now, trying to simplify things, you might actually find the timer you need for 12 volt. if not, I could even build you one to do the job. pretty simple. just have a really slow pulse generator, something like one 4 minute pulse every 4 hours, then it turns off or disables when it's dark out, with a photocell. $10 in parts. it would cost more for a water tight enclosure for it then it would to build the actual device. no need for a computer anymore. the timer I'm thinking of uses only .006 amps in standby mode, waiting to activate the pump. the pump turns on, the entire system might use 2 amps at the most, so .13 amps per hour. 2 of these should be plenty of power to run 1 pump and a timer.
eBay Motors: Lot of 2 New Multi Purpose 12V Solar Panel Charger Auto (item 350099514734 end time Sep-24-08 11:00:13 PDT)

what I'm thinking of today, it sounds more like a high-tech gorilla grow. it could really work. depends on how complicated or big you want to go. for a 12 volt pump, they are even pretty cheap too. I have 2 of them from walmart. go in the sporting goods section, look for boating bilge bumps. they work great and only $20! one fills my 6 square foot ebb and flow table with 5 gallons of water in about 3 minutes, then turns off and drains for another 3 minutes. sweetness. this pump can probably water 20 plants with top drip, just have to keep the res supplied with water and nutes.

I think... I might have to put together a diy tutorial on solar watering. maybe build a few of those timers and put them up on ebay cheap. I've never seen something specific like that for sale online anywhere, and not something just anyone can put together. think I should?

ezystevie said:

Hey LA9...

Thanks for postin, but the risks are very minimal, thats the reason y I wanna put the op in the middle of nowhere. It will be smell free, noise free and wont cause any spikes in the electricity. so there goes the main risks of gettin caught, so cant see ya point there. I aint doin this to be a smart ass, I'm doin it this way to eliminate as much risk as poss. Its ezy to say dont bother, but I dare say thats the POV of people who cant be arsed to go to the trouble of not to gettin caught.
The complication aint so bad. Provided I can get a reliable, relatively efficient elec supply, it will be the perfect set up.

Thanks anyways LA9.....

Click to expand...

Wouldnt someone dragging a shitload of diesel fuel to the middle of nowhere cause some suspicion after a while?

Hey NLX....

Yeah, that could be an issue, and same goes for the water. However, there could well be sum kinda pre-fab structure on top of the whole thing. Cow shelter or sumthin. That'd solve alot of the probs u pointed out. And besides, how unusual is it to see a tractor or quad bike, towin a small trailor on a farm??? And if it is a roofed barn, it'll fox the heli's, and noone should be able to view entry and exit from the 'op'.
Same goes for the post about needin a JCB... No probs, its a farm, so it aint exactly gonna be spooky, seein a digga makin a trench in a field.

I also no that u can bury these things. The article I linked to in a previous post, shows these things (ISO's) can withstand goin 7 feet under ground level. A pond linin round the joints of the structure, plus decent drainage will make it a feasable option.


Ezzzzzy

la9 said:

Guess I'll explain it in a little further detail. First off you say it's not complicated but we are on the third page and still aren't any closer to a solution, Also by complicated I also mean the more things you add to the mix, like you are out in the middle of nowhere and put up $50,000 worth of solar electricity ? Someone stumbles across it, they are going to investigate it because it doesn't make sense. A bank of solar panels in the forest and no house or anything ? Police helicopter flies over and they are going to get curious also. Same with generators, some one starts seeing a pattern of you going to the middle of nowhere with gas all the time, it will draw suspicion or even if someone stumbles across it again, herre is a generator in the middle of nowhere and I don't see it powering anything, people will start looking around. Just because you are in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean there aren't going to be a set of eyes somewhere watching. Plus running a generator and not sticking around to babysit it or even running a power cable and an animal gnaws thru it, chances are you will start a fire.

Complicated means the more things you have to solve a problem is the more things you have that will go wrong.

One last thing, not trying to be a smarta$$, but you sound way too over confident, that is a sure sign that this is never going to work. You keep on saying it's the perfect setup, the Titanic was the perfect boat, they built it so there wasn't any risks and were sure there wouldn't be any problems and we know how that turned out.

Click to expand...

Hey LA9...

You make some very good points their man. The solar stuff is almost a defo none starter. You're 100% rite to say that solar panels would stick out like a 'turd in a punch-bowl' (wot movie is that from????). If the set up was near to civilisation, it could be done, but my location means that its near impossible. So yeah, you're on the money, but it was always an outside bet.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it aint gonna look that wierd, if a quad bike or tractor is pullin a trailor with stuff in. If I can put a li'll cow shelter, or lite, pre fab construction over it, it will kill a few birds with 1 stone(r). No view from the air, plus no eyes on enterin in to or out of the op.

Goin on to ya point abt the cable, thats just abt outa the equasion, purely coz the distanc e from where it would b hooked up to. The gennie prob, and sum1 sittin around baby-sittin it all day, could be an issue. Reliabillity of thesew things is debatable, and could well be my downfall. I fully intend to some kinda disater recovery plan b4 I hit the switch. There would be a back up, and I can be alerted if the power is lost from a gennie. I cud always set up a small CCTV WAN. I kinda am involved in that line of work, so it aint gonna be anythin that I cant handle. But for sure, I dont wanna be droppin everythin every 10 mins, to try and fix a fuk'd gennie.

Lastly, again, ure rite wen u say over confidence is the motha of all fuk-ups. I am defo not that way of thinkin, and maybe a wrong choice of word wen I said 'perfect'. However, I execute complicated project plans as my 9-5, and if I could never take anythin on that I thought waz 2 risky to succeed, either this or my job. You have to set a plan and have confidence in it, otherwise, you'll defo end up on ya ass.

Thanks for all ya comments LA9 buddy, keep em comin (if ya can be arsed)


Ezzzzy

hackel said:

Haven't quite decided if this is dumb or not, but if you are putting an ISO container in the ground, can't you make holes in the top to let light in... that way you get all the light you need and you can use the solar panels to power the pumps and fans. The lights seem to be the killer for your costs. Truth be told you could spend about $50,000 on a PV system to sustain that kind of usage and for a genny you would save in the short-run but over the course of just a single grow you have dumped 9 gals of fuel a day and an oil change maybe 2x a week. Now certainly you will be "sharing" your product with paying friends, but I would rather spend about $2000-$4000 to convert the bunker into a greenhouse and pocket more of the profits. Maybe use a heatsink system (or just plain, foamboard insulation) to keep the temp up.

Just some ideas, cuz I am a true believer in the more natural solutions to things. I am glad you showed an interest in growing off-grid!

Click to expand...

Hey Hackle,

Mentioned earlier, solar is a no-go. It will defeat the idea of goin underground, which makes it invisible. Same goes for holes in the roof. There would only be abt 2 hours of direct sunlite per day, wen the sun was directly overhead.

Regards fuel... 9 galls pre day???? Surely not man?? I dun know much abt em, but from wot i read so far, a 5kw deisel gennie can run 18 hrs on a tank, and that defo aint 9 gal's. More like 1 or 2 max.

I rea\lly do think that hydro has gotta be the way. Thats the least NRG consumin way to grow, surley. Would luv 2 b proved wrong, coz if not, I gotta start ma knowledge from scratch, coz i wouldnt embark on such a project, without knowin exactly wot i was doin.

Love the idea of a Hydro-Gen. That wud be sweet, but sounds like a bit of a mission. I would be waaaaaaaaaaaaay outa ma depth then. Still, be nice 2 find out more...

Thanks again buddie...

Ezzzzzy

potlike said:

IF you have the funds- go completely solar it is getting more efficient all the time. Another possibility since you said you do have rain and possibly may have access to a river or something similar would be hydro electricity. You could reuse the rain that you collect in a fully automated system.... Lorenzo and I have been passing off ideas to each other for a couple months for a fully autonomous hydro/aero setup controlled via computer- he is much closer than I am to realizing it, but it is possible. Diesel/propane generators just won't be cost efficient on the short or long term. Hydro/Solar/Wind is VERY long term cost efficient, but if you have the money it will save you TONS over the long term.

As far as the internals of the operation such as climate control/odor control/lighting/growing medium/nutrients and such that is all easy and can be replicated with slight modifications for the circumstances.



-potlike

Click to expand...

Hey Potlike buddie....

Solar is outa the question man. It'd bring far too much attetion to an operation that is based aorund stealth, and solar panels like those fuka'z ya se eon the Space Station, aint stealthy..

However, for ma li'll home operation, bring it on!!!! I wanna know more....

Thanks man...

Ezzzzzy

I've always wanted to do a nice wood-working project, and build a real water wheel hooked to a generator. a quick guess, a 4 foot diameter 2 foot wide water wheel might produce a good 1000 watts steady, 24/7. with a big bank of batteries, you could probably run 2 600 watt hps's, plus fans and pumps.

if I had a piece of land way back in the woods with a stream, I would be in heaven. I love projects.

me and a friend of mine were pondering an idea a few years ago. I have a small 8x12 cabin in the woods. close off the attic, put in skylights to let in plenty of light, and grow up in there. it's a real work out trying to carry water up a mountain on foot.. I've done it with 60lb bags of cement, just barely making it to the top before falling to the ground out of breath. lol

ha ha ha..
That sounds sik, but its a million miles away from where i'm @. Mines gonna be a metal can, underground in a field in UK.... know where i'd rather be ma cuz

Ezzzzy

3kw gen is like pissing in tha wind for that setup.
ya need twice that for continuous load with fans,pumps what about a/c?
min gen I suggest is 10kw just for the lights...always run half load, better fuel economy
also bio diesel can be a cheap alternative

This is extremely promising. Yes, it is expensive and it only is working for white light right now but keep in mind HPS at its highest efficiency is around 158 lumens per watt. These led lights are producing 300 lumens per watt.... once this technology is applied to other wavelengths 450-495nm(blue) and ~630nm(red) that means that these kind of LED lights will be nearly 2x efficient as a HPS would be given the same distance... and remember LED's give off less heat... ie 300w LED would be roughly equivalent to 600w HPS in lumens.

Would make for a very nice stealth grow... hard to track heat signatures + requiring a nominal amount of electricity.

-potlike