Growroom Electrical Guide

Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
The person that wrote that admittedly knows very little about electrical, and they provide very little useful information except how to add up label amperage.
 
Dradden

Dradden

Well-Known Member
It is not supposed to be an in depth technical guide, it is designed to help new growers that know very little and so has been kept as simple as possible. What would make it more "useful"?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I kinda expected it to go over basic wiring practices and such. Like applied knowledge.

Plus he says stuff like this:
This 80% rating is based on the cable # not on the breaker. The breaker does not care if you are running the circuit at 95% and will continue to not care until something melts, starts on fire and there is a short.
Click to expand...
A breaker does in fact care and that's it's only job is to trip at 80 percent of the rating. The wire is the limiting factor as it can only carry so much current (amps) safely and the breaker needs to be sized accordingly. If some dumbass puts a 20 amp breaker on #14 AWG wire only suitable for 15 amps, then thats a user error.

So aside from not providing much useful information you get crap like that.
 
Dradden

Dradden

Well-Known Member
Far as I know the breaker is sized to protect the cable, not vice versa. Perhaps I did not word that part of it well and need to change it.

The breaker is designed to hold 100% of its rating indefinitely, of course it needs to be able to withstand and dissipate the additional heat. I am sure some breakers might trip at 80% after running continuous load for many hours, but many will not. You can feel the panel is hot, the breaker barely able to be touched and yet they don't trip. Should people really rely on the fact that it might trip at 80%.

I do think though the part you quoted is not well written and needs to be changed.

Edit: I instead just removed that line completely.
 
Last edited:
Dougnsalem

Dougnsalem

Well-Known Member
I respect the time you put into that, to try and help others out. However, my best advice to someone that doesn't know electrical codes and safety items, that doesn't know how to calculate current loads, that can't tell the difference between a 12ga and 14ga wire just by looking at it; is this..... Call a certified electrician. You are screwing with your, and your loved ones lives. It is not worth it. Just IMHO.
 
Dradden

Dradden

Well-Known Member
Dougnsalem said:
I respect the time you put into that, to try and help others out. However, my best advice to someone that doesn't know electrical codes and safety items, that doesn't know how to calculate current loads, that can't tell the difference between a 12ga and 14ga wire just by looking at it; is this..... Call a certified electrician. You are screwing with your, and your loved ones lives. It is not worth it. Just IMHO.
Click to expand...
I agree, added that to the post as well. Unfortunately many people will not take that advice as they don't want to pay an electricians rate, I do hope that post might help them if so.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Dougnsalem said:
However, my best advice to someone that doesn't know electrical codes and safety items, that doesn't know how to calculate current loads, that can't tell the difference between a 12ga and 14ga wire just by looking at it; is this..... Call a certified electrician.
Click to expand...
Yeah I have seen some shit in my time. Just recently a buddy of mine had me look at his ceiling fan. Apparently someone wanted a switch for the fan and the light but all they had was 14-2 wire going to the ceiling fixture, so what did they do? They used the fucking ground conductor as the neutral to the fixture and made the neutral a switch leg for the fan. smh. Make it worse it was a federal pacific switch panel, lucky the damn breaker even worked. Honestly not the first time I have seen some "handyman" pull that trick, probably won't be the last. He ended up having to pull a permit as a home owner so we could have his meter pulled and upgrade his panel, have it inspected and meter stabbed. His home inspector didn't even notice that federal pacific panel when he bought the home, shame on the home inspector (most of them miss stuff but thats a big one)

I have seen so many unsafe grow installations that it makes me wonder how more don't burn down. Even seen one dude using speaker wire to run AC power in his grow cab, saying well it's 14 gauge and it's a 15 amp circuit. No regards for the insulation rating or the fact the receptacles he was wiring aren't rated for stranded wire, when you looked at the terminals half the strands were just pushed out from under the screw. smh worst work possible. I have seen tuna cans used as junction boxes with EMT and coffee cans used to house outdoor lighting. The best is when someone is trying to run a new feed and they drill or cut a water line. Plumbers and electricians rarely get along lol. This house im living in had an arc fault breaker in the master bedroom that kept tripping whenever something was plugged or unplugged in one receptacle. I was checking the receptacle for lose connections and I found that when the contractor was doing the exterior finish they ran a screw in through the cable right as it entered the junction box. I had to run a new line down from the attic and make an appropriate junction up there and put in an old work box for the receptacle. So even the pros fuck up and the inspector missed it. Good thing for arc fault I suppose. Major hassle to do without fucking up the drywall.

So if you aren't skilled with electrical it's best to leave it to the pros. You don't know what you don't know.

Damn I really rambled on.
 
Dougnsalem

Dougnsalem

Well-Known Member
TLDR: If you have to go onto a canibis site, to ask an electrical wiring/load type question; then you would be WAY better off to hire a certified electrician to ask. Otherwise, you could end up in prison.... (This is talking home wiring. Not led strip/balast type questions.)

Renfro said:
Yeah I have seen some shit in my time. Just recently a buddy of mine had me look at his ceiling fan. Apparently someone wanted a switch for the fan and the light but all they had was 14-2 wire going to the ceiling fixture, so what did they do? They used the fucking ground conductor as the neutral to the fixture and made the neutral a switch leg for the fan. smh. Make it worse it was a federal pacific switch panel, lucky the damn breaker even worked. Honestly not the first time I have seen some "handyman" pull that trick, probably won't be the last. He ended up having to pull a permit as a home owner so we could have his meter pulled and upgrade his panel, have it inspected and meter stabbed. His home inspector didn't even notice that federal pacific panel when he bought the home, shame on the home inspector (most of them miss stuff but thats a big one)

I have seen so many unsafe grow installations that it makes me wonder how more don't burn down. Even seen one dude using speaker wire to run AC power in his grow cab, saying well it's 14 gauge and it's a 15 amp circuit. No regards for the insulation rating or the fact the receptacles he was wiring aren't rated for stranded wire, when you looked at the terminals half the strands were just pushed out from under the screw. smh worst work possible. I have seen tuna cans used as junction boxes with EMT and coffee cans used to house outdoor lighting. The best is when someone is trying to run a new feed and they drill or cut a water line. Plumbers and electricians rarely get along lol. This house im living in had an arc fault breaker in the master bedroom that kept tripping whenever something was plugged or unplugged in one receptacle. I was checking the receptacle for lose connections and I found that when the contractor was doing the exterior finish they ran a screw in through the cable right as it entered the junction box. I had to run a new line down from the attic and make an appropriate junction up there and put in an old work box for the receptacle. So even the pros fuck up and the inspector missed it. Good thing for arc fault I suppose. Major hassle to do without fucking up the drywall.

So if you aren't skilled with electrical it's best to leave it to the pros. You don't know what you don't know.

Damn I really rambled on.
Click to expand...
No, you didn't ramble on at all. I actually enjoyed reading it. Seriously! :clap: All I've mainly done is electrical and electronics systems. Aircraft, semi trucks and automobiles, commercial and residential electrical. As a profession for over 30 years. It's obvious to me that you have for many years too. You know your shit. I have not seen you one single time, pass out any incorrect information.

Like you, I've seen some pretty wild stuff. My last one had no grounds to the outlets (or lights) in the master bedroom and office, of a 45 year old house. Turns out, someone in the past had gone into the attic crawlspace, chopped the main feed wire for those areas, and wire nutted in an extension cord, that ran over to their new attic fan. No J box. No Romex. Didn't even bother to hook the grounds back up. They also pulled power off the same circuit, to run to a sump pump in the crawl space under the house. Non-GFCI outlet that it was plugged into, without a dedicated circuit; and again, no ground present. This outlet was under the waterline that you could see, before the sump was even installed. Sump goes out. Water reaches outlet. POW! Not good....

Here's the catch- the previous owner did not disclose the previous electrical work done, at the time of the sale. SO, (around here) had that place caught fire, and someone had died; that previous owner could be looking at some serious prison time.

Much respect to you Renfro. I do cringe every time you give home wiring advice to people around here though. All the external stuff- cobs/leds/ballasts- the shit you plug in is totally good and safe. It's that home electrical that worries me. Know what I'm saying?....

BTW- Great thread Dradden! Honestly. I'm not knocking anything you've said- just trying to give another point of view.


Now who the hell is rambling??? Lol
 
Dradden

Dradden

Well-Known Member
Quite obvious you guys really know your stuff. I used to build semi truck-trailers (logging and flatdecks) I was the "electrical guy", but really nothing in comparison with real electrician work.

I have learned a bunch more about electrical just since last night due to this thread which is great.

Thanks Dougnsalem appreciated!
 
7

710Earthbound

Member
As a Master Electrician with a private electrical contracting business...…. my first suggestion to everyone if in doubt call a licensed company, do not take the info you find on the internet as correct! Province to province and state to state the rules are all differnet. There's not one set of rules for Canada nor the USA.

Second suggestion I would at least put a disclaimer in all my posts or videos. Electrical is no joke and the rules and regulations in Canada are very strict. For one you can be held liable for giving the wrong info. Probably less serious as you guys are not in the profession. But I have learned at least in my area they don't take to it lightly. They want you to hire someone obviously, works our better and safer for everyone...… might not be you but the guy 20-30years down the road working on it.

You guys all seem to have a good basis. I will however point out a couple things to correct.

Here's the first screwball to start you off with the electrical rules....Canadian electrical code..… first a #14 wire can take 20amps with one rule, however another rule in code says that based on a different table/rule you need to rate at a different temperature rating for the cable therefore the 14 can only hook up to a 15amp breaker. WTF!?!? That was broke down as easy as I could make it for you...… So yes a #14 should only ever be hooked up to 15amp breaker. Now the next odd ball. It was correct when you said all breaker will trip at 80% load it's just how they are made/designed, so 100amp will only every give you 80 amps. 15amp=12amp


The scary part is what I think was home owner renos you guys had to fix, like all the weird electrical things you guys mentioned. The 14/2 down to a switch was common practice up until last years code update where they want a neutral wire at all switch boxes. Before we dropped a 14/2 from the light to the switch, the white was not a neutral but the power drop to power the switch the black was used to bring the power back to the light when turned on. So you will see this common in 99% of homes still unless it is new 2019 build or has a reno with a 2019 inspection done on it as it would need to meet new code.

The screw in the wire could have happened at any time, after any exterior reno etc. Also if people saw what an electrical inspection consisted of you would probably laugh! They are not in there testing every wire. Some hardly even walk the entire site. That screw would be a hard trouble shooting job for anyone! Another code rule is how far a wire is to be run from the face where the drywall sits on the studs, then the code length of drywall screw will make it so you never hit a wire when installing drywall board. Problem is when eager home owners or Joe Fix All kinda companies get hired and they slap everything together with what they got kinda project. As for it coming from the exterior that is common those guys are just blasting screws into anything!


Hoppe that may have helped and not come off offensive etc as most people take things now adays lol........GOOD LUCK EVERYONE, STAY SAFE & STAY LIT!
 
Dradden

Dradden

Well-Known Member
710Earthbound said:
As a Master Electrician with a private electrical contracting business...…. my first suggestion to everyone if in doubt call a licensed company, do not take the info you find on the internet as correct! Province to province and state to state the rules are all differnet. There's not one set of rules for Canada nor the USA.

Second suggestion I would at least put a disclaimer in all my posts or videos. Electrical is no joke and the rules and regulations in Canada are very strict. For one you can be held liable for giving the wrong info. Probably less serious as you guys are not in the profession. But I have learned at least in my area they don't take to it lightly. They want you to hire someone obviously, works our better and safer for everyone...… might not be you but the guy 20-30years down the road working on it.

You guys all seem to have a good basis. I will however point out a couple things to correct.

Here's the first screwball to start you off with the electrical rules....Canadian electrical code..… first a #14 wire can take 20amps with one rule, however another rule in code says that based on a different table/rule you need to rate at a different temperature rating for the cable therefore the 14 can only hook up to a 15amp breaker. WTF!?!? That was broke down as easy as I could make it for you...… So yes a #14 should only ever be hooked up to 15amp breaker. Now the next odd ball. It was correct when you said all breaker will trip at 80% load it's just how they are made/designed, so 100amp will only every give you 80 amps. 15amp=12amp


The scary part is what I think was home owner renos you guys had to fix, like all the weird electrical things you guys mentioned. The 14/2 down to a switch was common practice up until last years code update where they want a neutral wire at all switch boxes. Before we dropped a 14/2 from the light to the switch, the white was not a neutral but the power drop to power the switch the black was used to bring the power back to the light when turned on. So you will see this common in 99% of homes still unless it is new 2019 build or has a reno with a 2019 inspection done on it as it would need to meet new code.

The screw in the wire could have happened at any time, after any exterior reno etc. Also if people saw what an electrical inspection consisted of you would probably laugh! They are not in there testing every wire. Some hardly even walk the entire site. That screw would be a hard trouble shooting job for anyone! Another code rule is how far a wire is to be run from the face where the drywall sits on the studs, then the code length of drywall screw will make it so you never hit a wire when installing drywall board. Problem is when eager home owners or Joe Fix All kinda companies get hired and they slap everything together with what they got kinda project. As for it coming from the exterior that is common those guys are just blasting screws into anything!


Hoppe that may have helped and not come off offensive etc as most people take things now adays lol........GOOD LUCK EVERYONE, STAY SAFE & STAY LIT!
Click to expand...

Great info and I will make some changes/additions on the guide based on what you have said here, thanks! There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the guide, but I might move it to the top so it actually gets read before people jump in.

Appreciate you taking the time to post and share your knowledge :joint:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top